From Eric's blog, February 25th

Quote:Coach Graham:
Well it’s hard to judge a team this early in the season with these bats. We’ve got a good left-right ability to our order. But I think what they’ve done with the bats is counter-productive to the game of college baseball. And all you’d have to do to get some of that offense back is to change the baseball.
.
Eric:
Are you talking about the minor league ball or the major league ball?
.
Coach Graham:
A lowered seam with a higher co-efficient of restitution like the major league ball. With the big league ball, these kids could use wood and they’d still be able to hit home runs with a livelier ball. Well think about this, Eric, in 1920 the big leagues put in a livelier ball and there were two reasons for that. 1- people like the home run. And 2- people like the home run and bought more tickets. And think about this too, why did the higher-ups in pro baseball look the other way during the steroid era? Because it was still pulling in fans. So we don’t have to do anything but use a low-seam ball. They say that the high-seam ball helps the pitcher, that the college pitcher could spin it better, but that’s really not true. The low seam ball can actually be thrown a little bit harder because there’s not as much drag on the ball. And the ball will go further, especially with the wind against it. Because when you have the high-seem ball hit into the wind, all it does is climb. The bad thing is that they’re hurting the game.

.
The last "Baldcast" with Eric and Mike Rooney, Rooney says that ESPN is going to do one of their "sport's science" pieces on this. Rawlings makes both balls, the one used in the NCAA tournament and the ML ball. Rooney talked with a Rawlings rep.

The Rawlings guy said the exit speed (off the bat) will be exactly the same. That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

Interesting

(04-26-2013 06:29 PM)grol Wrote:  From Eric's blog, February 25th

Quote:Coach Graham:
Well it’s hard to judge a team this early in the season with these bats. We’ve got a good left-right ability to our order. But I think what they’ve done with the bats is counter-productive to the game of college baseball. And all you’d have to do to get some of that offense back is to change the baseball.
.
Eric:
Are you talking about the minor league ball or the major league ball?
.
Coach Graham:
A lowered seam with a higher co-efficient of restitution like the major league ball. With the big league ball, these kids could use wood and they’d still be able to hit home runs with a livelier ball. Well think about this, Eric, in 1920 the big leagues put in a livelier ball and there were two reasons for that. 1- people like the home run. And 2- people like the home run and bought more tickets. And think about this too, why did the higher-ups in pro baseball look the other way during the steroid era? Because it was still pulling in fans. So we don’t have to do anything but use a low-seam ball. They say that the high-seam ball helps the pitcher, that the college pitcher could spin it better, but that’s really not true. The low seam ball can actually be thrown a little bit harder because there’s not as much drag on the ball. And the ball will go further, especially with the wind against it. Because when you have the high-seem ball hit into the wind, all it does is climb. The bad thing is that they’re hurting the game.

.
The last "Baldcast" with Eric and Mike Rooney, Rooney says that ESPN is going to do one of their "sport's science" pieces on this. Rawlings makes both balls, the one used in the NCAA tournament and the ML ball. Rooney talked with a Rawlings rep.

The Rawlings guy said the exit speed (off the bat) will be exactly the same. That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

Interesting

Guy,
Sorry to be so ignorant, but who are these people you are talking about? Eric and Rooney???

(04-26-2013 11:34 PM)RiceDad Wrote:  Guy,
Sorry to be so ignorant, but who are these people you are talking about? Eric and Rooney???

Eric Sorenson - see http://www.collegebaseballtoday.com/

Rooney is a (the?) ESPN college baseball analyst

Yeah, Dick. I should have elaborated...but most people know Eric, or Stitch-head, as he self names himself.

The "baldcast" is here -- No. 7. They're both bald. The topic I discussed is midway.

(04-26-2013 06:29 PM)grol Wrote:  That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

This partially contradicts the research that I've read on seam height. The laboratory data I read said, for a given speed and spin, there is MORE movement with LOWER seams. Also, because the drag coefficient is lower, pitches would be slightly faster (or more correctly lose less velocity) and batted balls would carry further when hit. That would result in less contact by the batters (more speed and more movement on pitches) but balls would carry further, resulting in more deep flies and home runs.

The test results did not measure if a pitcher's grip would be effected by having lower seems, which could effect the results.

(04-27-2013 10:29 PM)NicevilleWRC Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:29 PM)grol Wrote:  That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

This partially contradicts the research that I've read on seam height. The laboratory data I read said, for a given speed and spin, there is MORE movement with LOWER seams. Also, because the drag coefficient is lower, pitches would be slightly faster (or more correctly lose less velocity) and batted balls would carry further when hit. That would result in less contact by the batters (more speed and more movement on pitches) but balls would carry further, resulting in more deep flies and home runs.

The test results did not measure if a pitcher's grip would be effected by having lower seems, which could effect the results.

Good information. This backs up Coach's point of view.

(04-27-2013 10:29 PM)NicevilleWRC Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:29 PM)grol Wrote:  That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

This partially contradicts the research that I've read on seam height. The laboratory data I read said, for a given speed and spin, there is MORE movement with LOWER seams. Also, because the drag coefficient is lower, pitches would be slightly faster (or more correctly lose less velocity) and batted balls would carry further when hit. That would result in less contact by the batters (more speed and more movement on pitches) but balls would carry further, resulting in more deep flies and home runs.

The test results did not measure if a pitcher's grip would be effected by having lower seems, which could effect the results.

From what I recall of The Physics of Baseball, a pitch like a screwball (no rotation) will move more (but unpredictably) with a perfectly round ball than with a high seem ball. That's because the imperfections cause turbulence, which reduces drag, and makes the path through the air more predictable. Likewise, it may travel farther through the air off the bat. This is all for the same reason they put dimples in golf balls. But, with pitches like a curve ball, where there is a lot of spin, the ball should curve more with the high seam ball.

I didn't watch it, but Augie may have gotten into the discussion of bats and balls on ESPNU last night (UT lost). Anyone hear what he had to say?

(04-28-2013 10:49 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 10:29 PM)NicevilleWRC Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 06:29 PM)grol Wrote:  That the difference will be that there will be less movement with the flat seam ball, meaning more hard hit balls, less swings and misses in the college game. The Rawlings guy said to Rooney, "if you guys do this in college baseball, you're throwing your pitchers to the wolves. They are going to get their ears turned inside out."

This partially contradicts the research that I've read on seam height. The laboratory data I read said, for a given speed and spin, there is MORE movement with LOWER seams. Also, because the drag coefficient is lower, pitches would be slightly faster (or more correctly lose less velocity) and batted balls would carry further when hit. That would result in less contact by the batters (more speed and more movement on pitches) but balls would carry further, resulting in more deep flies and home runs.

The test results did not measure if a pitcher's grip would be effected by having lower seems, which could effect the results.

From what I recall of The Physics of Baseball, a pitch like a screwball (no rotation) will move more (but unpredictably) with a perfectly round ball than with a high seem ball. That's because the imperfections cause turbulence, which reduces drag, and makes the path through the air more predictable. Likewise, it may travel farther through the air off the bat. This is all for the same reason they put dimples in golf balls. But, with pitches like a curve ball, where there is a lot of spin, the ball should curve more with the high seam ball.

By pitch with no rotation, did you mean knuckleball (vs screwball)?

(04-28-2013 03:02 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  By pitch with no rotation, did you mean knuckleball (vs screwball)?

Yes.

I have heard/read discussions about countless college hitters and whether or not they can make the transition to wood bats. I have never heard/read discussions about a single college pitcher and whether or not they can make the transition to the flatter seam baseball.

The physics of it aside, methinks that if this were a real concern, the various college summer leagues would use the flatter seem balls in order to give scouts a good look at pitchers with that ball.

(04-29-2013 01:08 PM)Steven Herce Wrote:  I have heard/read discussions about countless college hitters and whether or not they can make the transition to wood bats. I have never heard/read discussions about a single college pitcher and whether or not they can make the transition to the flatter seam baseball.

The physics of it aside, methinks that if this were a real concern, the various college summer leagues would use the flatter seem balls in order to give scouts a good look at pitchers with that ball.

To add to this debate, the NCAA recently released their mid-season statistical trends. Batting average and run scoring down again. Something needs to be done.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/baseball_R...Trends.pdf

I find it strange that the HS ball has flat seams but the college ball has high seams. Wayne's comments about high seam balls not creating a bigger break is true but with the high seams it is easier to throw a breaking ball. I used to use the NCAA ball in bullpen sessions with my HS pitchers so they could get a better feel for pulling down on the seams.

(04-29-2013 01:08 PM)Steven Herce Wrote:  I have heard/read discussions about countless college hitters and whether or not they can make the transition to wood bats. I have never heard/read discussions about a single college pitcher and whether or not they can make the transition to the flatter seam baseball.

The physics of it aside, methinks that if this were a real concern, the various college summer leagues would use the flatter seem balls in order to give scouts a good look at pitchers with that ball.

Practice >> theory in this case. Good input.