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Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
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Cleanface Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 02:38 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  For all the rightful cristicism the B1G received for being so slow in embracing expansion and getting to a championship game (not to mention the fiasco of the "Legends/Leaders" nomenclature), I think the addition of a brand like Nebraska was brilliant. It is clear that the addition of Maryland and Rutgers is for NE geography pentration and B1G network subscription. While for so long being the conference that was the inhibitor of change, the B1G in the past few years has become an accelerant of change (or was at least enlightened by Larry Scott and the PAC).

Now of course the overall athletic product will need to improve to sustain network value. The perception with the B1G has always been that it is top heavy with a few brands, and that still has not changed. This in my opinion is what made the addition of Nebraska so significant.

However, this is dangerous long term for the B1G because when your "Big 4" all have down years, the conference struggles with public perception, recruiting, etc. Outside of the midwest, unless Ohio State, Michigan, PSU or Nebraska are playing, not many national eyeballs are tuning in. The SEC has built the advantage during the BCS run of now having 7 household brands (Florida, Tenn, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, A&M). If 3 of these teams are down (Tenn, Ark, Auburn for example), the others step in. The B1G needs the likes of Iowa, Mich St, Illinois, and anyone else to make that next step in consistency and establish national branding. Then it is off to the races for the B1G....
ARK?? Not so sure about that. AUB?? Maybe, but also iffy. TN, GA, A&M?? Hmmmm. 'National' eyeballs?? Don't know about that.

I'd say MICH, OSU, PSU, NEB, MSU, and WISCO pull as many 'national' eyeballs as the Top 6 of the SEC.

It really is the B1G & SEC and then everyone else. Why can't we all just get along??
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2013 03:19 PM by Cleanface.)
05-06-2013 03:18 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
I think he did pretty good for an SEC guy. As a follower of the Big Ten whom has recently moved to the deep south, he was VERY fair in comparison to most of his "contemporaries". I use the quoted term very loosely as I really don't know anything personal about the poster and wouldn't want to offend unknowingly.
05-06-2013 03:22 PM
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LSUtah Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 03:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 02:38 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

Yeah, I would say this is a fair analysis of the Big Ten's situation by someone who is a fan of a different conference other than the Big Ten.

People need to remember though, some attributes of Universities and their Athletic Department's Potential are static and do not change. Most of those attributes are of high strength in the Big Ten. The problem the Big Ten has had has been about taking proper steps to fully realize that potential. The conference may have put forward a public image of being against the new NCAA rules in regards to recruiting but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some persons high up in the Big Ten being major proponents for those new rules. The Big Ten needs those new rules more than any other major conference right now.

After re-reading my post I neglected to mention Wisconsin, which is fair to say has crossed that threshold. To be fair Iowa is probably there as well (at least on par with Arkansas as a brand), and has a great opportunity now with the new geographic conference alignment.

By the way He1nous, I was at the 2005 Capital One Bowl when Iowa beat LSU with the last play of the game. Never lost a buzz so fast in my life !!
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2013 03:22 PM by LSUtah.)
05-06-2013 03:22 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 02:38 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  For all the rightful cristicism the B1G received for being so slow in embracing expansion and getting to a championship game (not to mention the fiasco of the "Legends/Leaders" nomenclature), I think the addition of a brand like Nebraska was brilliant. It is clear that the addition of Maryland and Rutgers is for NE geography pentration and B1G network subscription. While for so long being the conference that was the inhibitor of change, the B1G in the past few years has become an accelerant of change (or was at least enlightened by Larry Scott and the PAC).

Now of course the overall athletic product will need to improve to sustain network value. The perception with the B1G has always been that it is top heavy with a few brands, and that still has not changed. This in my opinion is what made the addition of Nebraska so significant.

However, this is dangerous long term for the B1G because when your "Big 4" all have down years, the conference struggles with public perception, recruiting, etc. Outside of the midwest, unless Ohio State, Michigan, PSU or Nebraska are playing, not many national eyeballs are tuning in. The SEC has built the advantage during the BCS run of now having 7 household brands (Florida, Tenn, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, A&M). If 3 of these teams are down (Tenn, Ark, Auburn for example), the others step in. The B1G needs the likes of Iowa, Mich St, Illinois, and anyone else to make that next step in consistency and establish national branding. Then it is off to the races for the B1G....
I know this will shock Cleanface, but I agree...Nebraska was a no-brainer. I am from St Louis and if I were Delaney I would have picked Nebraska, for sports. I would have picked Missouri for academics. I used his own endowment stats. If he is correct and Wisconsin is #4 at 1.11 billion, then Missouri must be even higher than #4, at 1.12 billion. The B1G has been chasing ND for years, and not for academics, but for a national brand. That is my whole point regarding conference priorities. I didn't say there was a problem with it. Everyone does the same thing.
05-06-2013 03:24 PM
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Cleanface Offline
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Post: #185
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 03:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I think he did pretty good for an SEC guy. As a follower of the Big Ten whom has recently moved to the deep south, he was VERY fair in comparison to most of his "contemporaries". I use the quoted term very loosely as I really don't know anything personal about the poster and wouldn't want to offend unknowingly.

Agreed completely.

Great post.
05-06-2013 03:24 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #186
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 03:22 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 03:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 02:38 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

Yeah, I would say this is a fair analysis of the Big Ten's situation by someone who is a fan of a different conference other than the Big Ten.

People need to remember though, some attributes of Universities and their Athletic Department's Potential are static and do not change. Most of those attributes are of high strength in the Big Ten. The problem the Big Ten has had has been about taking proper steps to fully realize that potential. The conference may have put forward a public image of being against the new NCAA rules in regards to recruiting but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some persons high up in the Big Ten being major proponents for those new rules. The Big Ten needs those new rules more than any other major conference right now.

After re-reading my post I neglected to mention Wisconsin, which is fair to say has crossed that threshold. To be fair Iowa is probably there as well (at least on par with Arkansas as a brand), and has a great opportunity now with the new geographic conference alignment.

By the way, I was at the 2005 Capital One Bowl when Iowa beat LSU with the last play of the game. Never lost a buzz so fast in my life!!

Yeah, I am not so pumped about our current coaching staff. I think it is going to take a different OC to get things going because Ferentz is not a Gameday leader.

Besides this very recent slump though, the Hawkeyes generally never fail to show up for a Bowl game unlike some other programs that lose focus. Their fans that show up in droves where ever they go constantly remind them.
05-06-2013 03:24 PM
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Cleanface Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 03:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I know this will shock Cleanface, but I agree...Nebraska was a no-brainer. I am from St Louis and if I were Delaney I would have picked Nebraska, for sports. I would have picked Missouri for academics. I used his own endowment stats. If he is correct and Wisconsin is #4 at 1.11 billion, then Missouri must be even higher than #4, at 1.12 billion. The B1G has been chasing ND for years, and not for academics, but for a national brand. That is my whole point regarding conference priorities. I didn't say there was a problem with it. Everyone does the same thing.

That WISCO $1.1B is research spending per year, not their endowment.

They are #4 in research spending. jbfc.
05-06-2013 03:26 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #188
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
I think folks forget about the strength that the State of Wisconsin has and how that works it's way into their Universities. The University of Wisconsin has a ton of branches, I dont have the specific number on me right now but it is really quite impressive.

I think folks forget that the State has two cities with over a Million people. That is probably because neither of them has a football team yet a city that is like a tenth of their size has one of the most storied football teams in the entire NFL. People tend to think of Green Bay when they think of Wisconsin and not Madison or Milwaukee.

Wisconsin is a Juggernaut of the Big Ten. Gary Anderson landed himself a dream job. I think he is not only going to keep Wisconsin relevant but I think he has the proven history to take a program to the next step. Stepping into a program that arguably has the best offensive lines on average in college football, he will be able to do so much and bring new methodology to that program.

I honestly don't think Wisconsin will decline.
05-06-2013 03:33 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #189
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 03:26 PM)Cleanface Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 03:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I know this will shock Cleanface, but I agree...Nebraska was a no-brainer. I am from St Louis and if I were Delaney I would have picked Nebraska, for sports. I would have picked Missouri for academics. I used his own endowment stats. If he is correct and Wisconsin is #4 at 1.11 billion, then Missouri must be even higher than #4, at 1.12 billion. The B1G has been chasing ND for years, and not for academics, but for a national brand. That is my whole point regarding conference priorities. I didn't say there was a problem with it. Everyone does the same thing.

That WISCO $1.1B is research spending per year, not their endowment.

They are #4 in research spending. jbfc.
"Total ENDOWMENTS - SEC schools;"

Missouri $1.12 Billion
Alabama $995 MM
Kentucky $916 MM
Tennessee $848 MM
Arkansas $789 MM
Georgia $746 MM
LSU $693 MM
USCe $494 MM
Auburn $472 MM
Mississippi $469 MM
MSU $347 MM
I see your point. You changed the criteria right in the middle of your data. My bad for not noticing that...I guess as far as this part goes, the SEC got what they were looking for.04-cheers
05-06-2013 03:44 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #190
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 11:32 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 10:52 AM)Cleanface Wrote:  The B1G won't let you keep your independence, and the hopeless ACC agreed to let you. Apparently, Independence is the absolute most important thing. That's why you're in the ACC and not the B1G.
It is for Notre Dame, unless going into a conference is required to have a path to the national championship game. That was established back when the Notre Dame administration decided to join the Big Ten, and the alumni revolted and got the administration changed.

As far as arguing whether it should be ~ that would be a silly argument to have. What the supporters of some team want is what they want. There's no particular reason it should be identical to what the supporters of some other team want. Many supporters of the Buckeyes want to beat that team up north, contend for a national championship, and contend for the Big Ten championship (often in that order) ... many supporters of the golden dome want to remain independent and to contend for the national championship, though some would put it in the other order.

Two conferences offered a deal that would allow Notre Dame to keep home games on the schedule in the second half of the season and still allow them to maintain their football independence and put together a schedule that would give them a shot at the NCG if they win out ... and the type of schedule from playing the ACC was more appealing than the type of schedule from playing the Big12, so the ACC it was.

Well, it was the FACULTY who voted in favor of the Big Ten, not the administration. See the last article below.

The alumni were almost 100% against the Big Ten.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/06/sports...g-ten.html


http://magazine.nd.edu/news/31344-in-a-l...f-its-own/


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-...than-hatch


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footbal...me_bigten/
05-06-2013 03:58 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #191
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 10:52 AM)Cleanface Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 06:45 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Yet, for all of that wonderfulness and greatness of the Big Ten's Kingdom of Heaven, ND has repeatedly said "Thanks, but no thanks".

Instead of an ND professor, ask the ND Board of Trustees and most of their biggest contributing alumni what they think of the Big Ten.

The B1G won't let you keep your independence, and the hopeless ACC agreed to let you. Apparently, Independence is the absolute most important thing. That's why you're in the ACC and not the B1G.

They also know they won't run the show, rather, they will be the new kid who will have to take a backseat to UM, OSU, WIS, MSU, even PUR who is a founding member. They know they will have to be a full-member, not this 'partial-member' BS that BEast allowed and the always desperate ACC is now allowing. No NBC deal separate, all for one and one for all. All equals. ND an equal?? Hahaha...of course ND's biggest contributing alumni don't consider them 'equal'.

They also know they won't be in charge and they won't be able to call the shots. They won't be the 'big fish' in the B1G, like they are in the ACC. They will be one of many.

ND?? Who cares. Glad you found another Conf you can take advantage of with 'partial-membership'. ND = creepy old man that jumps from Conf to Conf, molesting and abusing them until their used up, and then they move on. B1G doesn't play that game, and everyone at ND knows it.


In my opinion, if the Big Ten had offered the same deal to ND as did the Big 12 and ACC (partial membership), ND would still have selected the ACC (for East Coast/Southeast coverage, similar private schools, etc..)

And yes, independence is the most important thing to ND, not the wonderful "benefits" of the CIC or the $$ from the BTN.

"ND?? Who cares?" Well, apparently Jim Delany cared a lot in 1999. In 2010, the CR speculation was that Delany was chasing big game, Texas and/or ND.

Do you think that none of the motivation for trying to destabilize the ACC in 2013 was ND related? If so, you and I just have to disagree.

If ND had called Jim Delany about full membership at any point prior to signing the ACC GOR, Jim Delany and the Big Ten would have cared....a lot.

Do you think that the Big Ten would have accepted ND or said no?

This "Who cares" stuff sounds like a jilted suitor to me.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2013 06:57 PM by TerryD.)
05-06-2013 05:41 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-06-2013 05:41 PM)TerryD Wrote:  This "Who cares" stuff sounds like a jilted suitor to me.

Rightfully so (glad we've nailed down who did the jilting -- good luck ACC 03-wink)
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 10:03 AM by SeaBlue.)
05-07-2013 09:44 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
Big 10/14 is better off without ND. ND would just unstabilize things, as they would expect to have things their way. Wouldn't be good for the conference, IMO.
05-07-2013 10:30 AM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Can the Big Ten do ANYTHING right?
(05-07-2013 10:30 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Big 10/14 is better off without ND. ND would just unstabilize things, as they would expect to have things their way. Wouldn't be good for the conference, IMO.

If their are schools out there that are as arrogant, or perhaps more so, than ND it is the Big Ten. Seriously every time someone important at OSU opens his mouth you just want to punch him in the face he is so arrogant.

If ND was in the Big 10 just let them try to push around OSU, Michigan, and the like. This is not the BE where the schools outside ND by and large needed a school like ND to keep them in the national picture. The BE needed ND so they had to placate them. The Big Ten only wants ND and does not need them at all so ND would be just one voice just like all the others.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2013 03:17 AM by Sultan of Euphonistan.)
05-08-2013 03:14 AM
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