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Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #1
Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
Has happened a couple of times recently where firefighters were called to only be held hostage once they got there. Should they be armed to halt this trend?

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/local/hos...ajc_launch


Resize textAAAHostage scenario raises question of arming firefighters
Posted: 12:00 a.m. Sunday, April 21, 2013

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By Andria Simmons - The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

When a Suwanee homeowner took five firefighters hostage earlier this month, he told the victims he targeted them because they didn’t carry guns.

Basically, said Tim Hollingsworth, one of captives, he and his co-workers were sitting ducks.

In his opinion, at least one firefighter should be allowed to carry a handgun when crews respond to an emergency.

“I would feel safer if I had one,” said Hollingsworth, a former Gwinnett County sheriff’s deputy. “I’m ex-law enforcement, and I feel perfectly safe carrying a firearm anywhere.”

Questions about whether firefighters should carry firearms have been swirling in the public safety community ever since the April 10 incident in which Lauren Brown faked a heart attack, then took firefighters hostages when they responded. The 55-year-old Brown, who was angry with some family members and upset about financial problems, was killed in a subsequent shootout with a Gwinnett County SWAT officer.

While the state’s nearly 30,000 firefighters are not prohibited by law from carrying firearms on-duty, no Atlanta-area fire departments currently allow the practice.

The Georgia Firefighter Standards and Training Council, the governing body that certifies firefighters and inspects fire stations, has no policy against it. But it’s frowned upon by the International Association of Fire Chiefs, according to Shawn Kelley, the association’s director of strategic services. Kelley said he didn’t know of any department that arms firefighters.

“Police officers think and are trained in a different realm where they’re always suspicious of everyone they deal with that harm may come to them,” Kelley said. “When firefighters come across these kinds of scenarios, we call for the police and wait for the police before we take any further action.”

It’s unusual, but not unprecedented, for firefighters to become targets of violence.

Four months ago, two firefighters were ambushed and killed in upstate New York. William Spengler took aim at firefighters who responded to a blaze he intentionally set at his house in December. Two other firefighters and a police officer were injured.

In response to such incidents, a fire department in Clark County township of Bethel, Ohio, last year began allowing a few selected firefighters to carry concealed handguns. The township’s Fire and EMS department chief, Jacob King, told the Dayton Daily News last week that the Gwinnett fire hostage standoff was “a perfect example of why we took this stance — to give us the ability to have an exit strategy.”

Gwinnett County District Attorney Danny Porter said that there would be training issues, as well as liability issues, if fire departments started arming employees.

“One of the reasons that police are so careful is because you have huge liability issues,” Porter said.

There’s also an inherent danger in taking firearms or ammunition near flames. Pardue once battled a blaze inside an Army/Navy surplus store.

“I kept hearing something go off. Pops and bangs,” Pardue said. “I thought it was just paint cans. After the fire cleared, we saw it was the ammunition going off and there was shrapnel all over the place. The casing became a projectile because it ripped open.”

Gwinnett County fire department spokesman Capt. Tommy Rutledge said, “At this time, there are no talks of arming firefighters that I am aware of.” Instead, firefighters are trained to back away and call police whenever they recognize a potentially violent situation, he said.

Atlanta Fire Chief Kelvin J. Cochran said the cost of providing weapons for 1,100 members of his department, along with the training, certifications and re-certifications, would be too high given to the low probability of another hostage incident like the one in Gwinnett.

“I do not believe it is significant justification for arming firefighters with weapons solely based on the potential that it could happen in Atlanta,” Cochran said.

A handful of Georgia cities employ a strategy popular in some northern states. They require all their firefighters to be cross-trained as certified law enforcement officers. The cities that cross-train their firefighters as police officers are: Aiken, Bainbridge, Grovetown, Harlem and Social Circle.

The Bainbridge public safety workers carry guns like typical cops do when dispatched to police incidents, but stash them in the trunk of their patrol car and change into firefighter turnout gear when dispatched to fires, said Frank Green, the deputy director of the Bainbridge Department of Public Safety.

As a result, the city’s firefighters are trained and conditioned to respond to menacing suspects, and their guns are back at their vehicle if needed.

Green stopped short of recommending cross-training as a model for all departments, though. He says the idea often meets with resistance.

“There’s a lot of opposition to it because a lot of law enforcement officers don’t want to be firefighters,” Green said. “And a lot of firefighters don’t want to be law enforcement officers.”



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(This post was last modified: 04-21-2013 02:54 AM by GoApps70.)
04-21-2013 12:49 AM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
As long as they are first responders, yes. The ones in my area are. That never made sense to me. No matter what is happening firemen get there first, unarmed. The same could be said for EMT's.
04-21-2013 08:50 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
Some firefighters should be armed and some should (probably) not be. But at the minimum, they should be allowed to carry guns while on duty.
04-21-2013 09:29 AM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
Are government workers the only people who are allowed to defend themselves?
04-21-2013 11:38 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
(04-21-2013 11:38 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Are government workers the only people who are allowed to defend themselves?

School shooting, "shouldn't teachers be allowed to carry?"
Firemen hostages, "shouldn't firemen be allowed to carry?"
Farmers have been shot. So have accountants, factory workers and McDonald's employees. Everyone should be able to defend themselves.

Shame is they already have the right to.
04-21-2013 11:48 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
Fighting fires with a loaded handgun on ones person would not be particularly smart IMO. There is a possible problem with the firearm being exposed in the extremely high temps of a fire and the cartriges exploding. Sounds like a big liability issue to me. I would not do it...but...I don't have a problem with any properly trained citizen carrying openly or being licensed to conceal.

I would think that it would be better to have police on the scene of situations where violence is of higher probability. When I was an EMT years ago and worked on a Rescue Unit, we always requested police be on the scene in problem areas of town and where any call came in in which violence caused injuries. I never encountered any problems in the 11 years I worked. Very rarely were victims or bystanders unhappy to see us on the scene. I understand however that we are living more and more in a crazy ass world and schit happens.
04-21-2013 12:12 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
(04-21-2013 12:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  we are living more and more in a crazy ass world and schit happens.
Very true.

I used to believe (20-25 years ago) that when things reached a certain level of insanity, people would "wake up" and make the necessary changes in society. Or, at least, prevent "new" forms of destruction and chaos from being added on to the "old" forms of destruction and chaos that we already had.

Well, 20-25 years later, I now realize that people are no closer to "waking up" now than they were back then. I believe this "crazy ass world" will get crazier and crazier; things will continue to get worse and worse, basically no matter what.
04-21-2013 12:30 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
(04-21-2013 12:30 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-21-2013 12:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  we are living more and more in a crazy ass world and schit happens.
Very true.

I used to believe (20-25 years ago) that when things reached a certain level of insanity, people would "wake up" and make the necessary changes in society. Or, at least, prevent "new" forms of destruction and chaos from being added on to the "old" forms of destruction and chaos that we already had.

Well, 20-25 years later, I now realize that people are no closer to "waking up" now than they were back then. I believe this "crazy ass world" will get crazier and crazier; things will continue to get worse and worse, basically no matter what.

I guess I really mean the crazy ass world is now OUR world. It did not used to be that way. America at one time was somewhat sheltered from the violence seen all over the globe. It has slowly made it's way to us for a variety of reasons.

We once cared about our neighbors and actually lived in neighborhoods that looked out for each other. Today...Many of us don't even know the people living next door. Sad.
04-21-2013 02:57 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
(04-21-2013 02:57 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I guess I really mean the crazy ass world is now OUR world. It did not used to be that way. America at one time was somewhat sheltered from the violence seen all over the globe. It has slowly made it's way to us for a variety of reasons.

We once cared about our neighbors and actually lived in neighborhoods that looked out for each other. Today...Many of us don't even know the people living next door. Sad.
I agree with all of that.

For some Americans, the "crazy ass world" you describe is the only world they've ever known, therefore it seems "normal" to them. That is a kind of sickness and a tragedy all by itself.

But even among people who remember that things weren't always this way (or, if they don't personally "remember" it, at least have some awareness of it), it's remarkable to me how many of them seem to believe (they speak and act as if they do) that these changes "just happened" [WRONG] in a kind of organic, uncoordinated fashion [WRONG], and that there is nothing they or anyone can really do about it [WRONG]. In fact there is a lot that they could do about it. But the passivity of such people -- combined with the aggression of the people who welcome the "crazy" and want to create even more of it -- certainly has the effect of acting as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
04-21-2013 11:47 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Should FIREFIGHTERS Be Armed?
It's been getting to the point that sane people are getting tired of fighting the endless crazies.
Our colleges are producing more and more radical thinkers. Our government is too liberal to
even close off our borders, and political parties are going after the votes instead of representing
Americans and protecting them.
04-22-2013 05:01 AM
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