Back before A&M and Mizzou came to the SEC,and Texas was looking elsewere. Kansas,Kansas state,Iowa st.,and Mizzou should have left the Big12 and reformed a new Big 8. They could have had Louisville,and Memphis easily and most likely had Cincy and WVU also.
(04-09-2013 07:05 PM)moo Wrote: Louisville's academics are in no way a match for the Big Ten.
Adding teams to a conference based on how good their football or basketball programs are is a mistake. These things are cyclical. The ACC has tried it, over and over, and it has failed spectacularly. How's the plan working out to put Miami and FSU in the ACC title game every year?
Conferences SHOULD add programs based on factors like cultural fit and geography, with "how good is your football team" a distant third. These huge conferences, where the schools have competing interests and little in common -- these conferences are bound to fail.
It's true, although to be fair to Miami, they fit everything the ACC would want AND had good football. So while football may have been a motivating factor, the academics, geography, and cultural fit all made sense. Miami in the Big East was always the odd fit.
And to be honest, very few conference realignment decisions have been made on "how good is your football team". The only decisions where it came into play is with Nebraska-Big 10 and Louisville-ACC. The actual decisions the conferences make seem quite different than the wishes on Internet message boards
(04-09-2013 10:01 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: Back before A&M and Mizzou came to the SEC,and Texas was looking elsewere. Kansas,Kansas state,Iowa st.,and Mizzou should have left the Big12 and reformed a new Big 8. They could have had Louisville,and Memphis easily and most likely had Cincy and WVU also.
The problem is that group would have been a collection of small markets with no real interest from the networks. They would have been very similar to the Mountain West and we've seen what kind of a TV contract they command.
What makes Texas such a beast in the Big XII is control of its market, which alone has more people than the entire rest of the Big XII combined at any point.
I think Louisville and their academic past is something they should embrace and be proud of. While other universities were struggling with "Jim Crow" Louisville realizing that some were not fortunate enough to be provided the resources others was provided opened their doors and were receptive of a diversified student body. And as culture changed Louisville's standards rose.
WVU is a lost cause. Only further destabilization of its current conference and the ACC could perhaps allign things to where they reunite with some regional foes. Honestly, the Big 12 would be wise to cut them loose at some point, once this TV deal is up. It will probably save them more money in terms of travel for non-revenue sports.
For a Big 12/ACC merger to occur, you'd require the ACC to be raided without losing any "brand" schools (lets say its GTech, UVa, Vtech, and NC State). Then you could put together a premiere all-around conference.
ACC/East: WVU, Pitt, Cuse, UConn, BC, UNC, Duke, WF, FSU, Clemson, Miami
Big 12/West: Big 12 + UL, UC
Two eleven team conferences that operate independently for all sports and play a CC game in football at the end of the year. So not a 100% merger per say, but a scheduling alliance and a championship game to generate more money and increase playoff odds. You could also have perma rivalries such that Pitt/UC is an annual OOC game, as is WVU/UL.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 08:16 AM by RUScarlets.)
(04-09-2013 09:47 AM)bearcat29 Wrote: WVU has had more success historically in football. They have more of a national following and a flagship state school. If the B12 could only take one, they made a good choice.
Now you can argue they should have snagged UofL along with WVU, then yes I think they should have done it along with a another school roughly in the same area.
West Virginia has a national following?
WVU has an international following, not just national. It's not as large as some other schools. But it is there. West Virginia has been exporting its citizens to the rest of the nation for over a century, and all those that were raised in West Virginia still call it home, no matter where they reside...
I realize it's hard for you to understand. But that's your problem...
(04-10-2013 08:11 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: WVU is a lost cause. Only further destabilization of its current conference and the ACC could perhaps allign things to where they reunite with some regional foes. Honestly, the Big 12 would be wise to cut them loose at some point, once this TV deal is up. It will probably save them more money in terms of travel for non-revenue sports.
For a Big 12/ACC merger to occur, you'd require the ACC to be raided without losing any "brand" schools (lets say its GTech, UVa, Vtech, and NC State). Then you could put together a premiere all-around conference.
ACC/East: WVU, Pitt, Cuse, UConn, BC, UNC, Duke, WF, FSU, Clemson, Miami
Big 12/West: Big 12 + UL, UC
Two eleven team conferences that operate independently for all sports and play a CC game in football at the end of the year. So not a 100% merger per say, but a scheduling alliance and a championship game to generate more money and increase playoff odds. You could also have perma rivalries such that Pitt/UC is an annual OOC game, as is WVU/UL.
As far as the ACC is concerned, you're right. WVU will never join the ACC. They've had many chances to invite WVU, and their excuses are no longer at issue. If WVU joins a conference other than the B12, it will be the SEC...
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 08:51 AM by bitcruncher.)
If I am the SEC I probably add Pitt before WVU, assuming they can add from the ACC pool. AAU status. Directly in the market of interest. Or both if they have room. Honestly it's moot. I think you still need some kind of bridge for it to be feasible, meaning VaTech and a Carolina school. I just don't see the SEC going up there before adding from those states.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 09:36 AM by RUScarlets.)
It is interesting that we have a five page thread here based on a tweet of a thief.
I guess that if I wanted the opinion of a thief on conference realignment, I could ask one of the guys getting arraigned the next time I am in a courtroom for a hearing on a motion.
I don't think the Big XII was wrong for inviting WV over UL. There is a hierarchy and WVU has been ahead of Louisville forever, see the formation of Big East football.
Anyway, UL has hopped over UConn, who would have been closer to an institutional replacement for Maryland. I actually think Pitt is a fine institutional replacement for UMD and Louisville more like an athletic monster bonus addition. Can't wait for the UNC-Louisville games.
I do not think the Big 12 is in any trouble of failure, they just lost their chance of having Louisville. They will now have to add from the below for teams 11, 12. 13 and 14, if they expand again.
BYU
Boise State
Fresno State
San Diego State
New Mexico
Cincinnati
UConn
South Florida
Central Florida
(04-09-2013 10:01 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: Back before A&M and Mizzou came to the SEC,and Texas was looking elsewere. Kansas,Kansas state,Iowa st.,and Mizzou should have left the Big12 and reformed a new Big 8. They could have had Louisville,and Memphis easily and most likely had Cincy and WVU also.
The problem is that group would have been a collection of small markets with no real interest from the networks. They would have been very similar to the Mountain West and we've seen what kind of a TV contract they command.
What makes Texas such a beast in the Big XII is control of its market, which alone has more people than the entire rest of the Big XII combined at any point.
Does it really? Not everyone in Texas is a big Longhorn fan. Missouri has one FBS university and a population exceeding six million. Sure Texas has more people, but how many Texas FBS schools split that population? We had a large enough market to get an SEC invite... just sayin..
I don't think Lousiville winning the national championship changes things at all. Or at least it shouldn't. On the field/court performance is a result of strong programs, not a cause. Louisville has had good budgets, infrastructure, coaches, fan support for a while now.
The Big 12 knew those positives when they passed them over. The championship doesn't really change that. I personally agree it was a mistake- not because of the result, but because of the cause.
I do agree that the Big 12 will be fine, though. But if it fails, passing on Louisville will not be the cause.
(04-09-2013 10:01 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: Back before A&M and Mizzou came to the SEC,and Texas was looking elsewere. Kansas,Kansas state,Iowa st.,and Mizzou should have left the Big12 and reformed a new Big 8. They could have had Louisville,and Memphis easily and most likely had Cincy and WVU also.
The problem is that group would have been a collection of small markets with no real interest from the networks. They would have been very similar to the Mountain West and we've seen what kind of a TV contract they command.
What makes Texas such a beast in the Big XII is control of its market, which alone has more people than the entire rest of the Big XII combined at any point.
Does it really? Not everyone in Texas is a big Longhorn fan. Missouri has one FBS university and a population exceeding six million. Sure Texas has more people, but how many Texas FBS schools split that population? We had a large enough market to get an SEC invite... just sayin..
It has nothing to do with how many fans they have. It has to do with command of their market. They will get on every cable network in the state without any problem and they will attract a big enough audience in every market in the state handsomely. Missouri can't compare with that.
BRW, Missouri shares their state with 2 NFL franchises, the same number as in Texas with a population 4 times as large.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 03:34 PM by Melky Cabrera.)
(04-09-2013 10:01 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: Back before A&M and Mizzou came to the SEC,and Texas was looking elsewere. Kansas,Kansas state,Iowa st.,and Mizzou should have left the Big12 and reformed a new Big 8. They could have had Louisville,and Memphis easily and most likely had Cincy and WVU also.
The problem is that group would have been a collection of small markets with no real interest from the networks. They would have been very similar to the Mountain West and we've seen what kind of a TV contract they command.
What makes Texas such a beast in the Big XII is control of its market, which alone has more people than the entire rest of the Big XII combined at any point.
Does it really? Not everyone in Texas is a big Longhorn fan. Missouri has one FBS university and a population exceeding six million. Sure Texas has more people, but how many Texas FBS schools split that population? We had a large enough market to get an SEC invite... just sayin..
It has nothing to do with how many fans they have. It has to do with command of their market. They will get on every cable network in the state without any problem and they will attract a big enough audience in every market in the state handsomely. Missouri can't compare with that.
BRW, Missouri shares their state with 2 NFL franchises, the same number as in Texas with a population 4 times as large.
How come the LHN is failing so badly now? And as far as the NFL, we do well in separating our Saturdays and our Sundays too.
(04-10-2013 11:28 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote: How come the LHN is failing so badly now?
Because I think the original intent was to televise a ton of high school sports as a recruiting tool until the NCAA stepped in. There is only so much volleyball, cross country, or other similar sports they can show and frankly, how many people are interested in that?
If they are repeating Longhorn Extra for 12 or more straight hours then to me that's a pretty clear sign of failure.
(04-09-2013 10:01 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: I agree with Eer on this one.
Look, I too think the Big 12 goofed ENORMOUSLY when it failed to add Louisville and Cincinnati to go along with West Virginia.
Only if (and this is a ENORMOUS if) the Big 12 doesn't somehow end up with a couple of ACC schools or even a Boise and BYU. And who knows, UL could possibly still end up in the Big 12 according to the misinformat......I mean stuff that is posted on this board.....lol.
I don't think not adding UC is that big of deal because the Big 12 can get them whenever.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2013 03:26 PM by BamaScorpio69.)
(04-09-2013 09:47 AM)CardFan1 Wrote: Trust Us, Louisville fans will Love being in the ACC as a great regional fit as well as reuniting with many past conference mates. Nothing against the Big 12.
Some of your teams would have been homeless in the Big 12. I'm glad you made it into the ACC :)
CardFan1 nailed it...we have nothing against the Big XII and we hope we did Dave Gavitt BIG EAST proud.
We are very happy to be headed to the ACC with Notre Dame-(All Sports except Footballl and with ND eventually on our schedule in Football due to conference agreement), Syracuse & Pitt. Looking forward to Football & Basketball games with UNC, Duke, NC State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Miami & Florida State.
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interesting tweet from Doug Gottleib
