(04-09-2013 09:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Man did the Big 12 mess up not taking Louisville #hindsight2020

Just thinking about it, I'd have to agree with this 100%. Not only much closer to the footprint, but also stronger football and basketball teams. ACC really caught a break there big time. If Big 12 eventually fails, that could be the decision that really cooks them.

The ultimate reason that WVU got the nod ahead of Louisville was WVU's willingness to shoot its way out of the BE to join the B12 in 2013. If the B12 had invited UL, they would have had to wait, which posed problems with their ability to meet their obligations to their television partners.

Worked out well for UL.

ACC fits them better geographically and culturally and if they keep tearing it up in FB and BB like they have, they will have the opportunity to become one its anchor programs with lots of influence.

Congrats cards! Really looking forward to following you in ACC play!

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

(04-09-2013 12:19 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

That part was not my quote. I know about the GOR and even without that, I don't think that WVU would ever end up in the ACC.

(04-09-2013 01:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:19 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

That part was not my quote. I know about the GOR and even without that, I don't think that WVU would ever end up in the ACC.

Most of the expansion rumors are out there because they are started by angry WV fans. They have admitted they put stuff out there to get fan bases riled up. The ACC will never take WVU and WVU has some serious hatred toward anything ACC for that reason.

Texas controls the Big 12. Oklahoma has a great football program but they have little to no clout compared to Texas. Rumor had it Texas didn't want the conference championship game because it's one extra hurdle to a BCS berth so they don't care about adding teams just to get to the magic number of 12.

Well....Doug...weren't we told that L-ville was not a team that generated enough TV money (or more) to justify their addition on a per team payout?

So he may be correct on a lot of fronts, but apparently not on the TV front...which is funding conference re-alignment.

(04-09-2013 01:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:19 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

That part was not my quote. I know about the GOR and even without that, I don't think that WVU would ever end up in the ACC.

I was merely commenting on this ...

"I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved."

(04-09-2013 10:09 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:55 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Multiple people who are in the business told me repeatedly Louisville had the votes to get in the Big XII. They just never agreed on #12 thus they never acted.

The Big 12 still has a chance to get it right at this point and build a bridge to WVU. They should grab Cincinnati and Memphis...

You lost me at "grab .. Memphis".

Memphis isn't even in the group of schools that would effectively kill the AAC's TV deal if they departed for a new conference, and yet, they're supposed to add value to the Big XII?

(04-09-2013 01:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:19 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

That part was not my quote. I know about the GOR and even without that, I don't think that WVU would ever end up in the ACC.

The ACC has had plenty of opportunities to invite WVU, starting with when the conference first formed, and there have been multiple excuses as to why WVU was unacceptable to the ACC since (not coastal, terrain, roads, academics). I no longer care, and am sick of listening to the whiny children on WVU forums who wish things were otherwise...

I'd prefer WVU be independent again, rather than join the ACC. If WVU ever does join a conference other than the B12, I prefer the SEC over any other - including the B1G...

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

UConn doesn't have the votes to get in the ACC today.

With Pitt and Louisville in the ACC, the league does not "need" WVU, and if one looks back at history, the ACC has done all it could/can to distance itself from WVU (as bitcruncher has alluded up).

I can list a few controversial scenarios that trump WVU to the ACC:

1) Stand pat.

2) After about 3-5 years to pay off some of that GOR stuff, offer Texas the same deal as ND

3) Secretly woo Penn State, which would effectively be an ultimate middle finger to Maryland (not that adding Louisville wasn't)

4) ND agrees to play 8 games against ACC "member schools" as long as one of those members is "member" #16 -- Navy.

You'll never see Texas in the ACC. Why should they join the ACC, when they rule a conference all by themselves? In the ACC, they'd merely be another voice...

(04-09-2013 02:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You'll never see Texas in the ACC. Why should they join the ACC, when they rule a conference all by themselves? In the ACC, they'd merely be another voice...

The idea would be for Texas to go independent in football and ACC for other sports. I'm sure Texas would love the power of being another Notre Dame in the college football world, but it will need some help for its other sports and so forth. It makes some sense, but I'm not sure either party really wants it.

As to the original post, I'd agree with the consensus. Not choosing Louisville was a mistake. Whether that meant Louisville over West Virginia or Louisville with West Virginia. Either would have worked. You did not even have to have #12 lined up right away. Nevertheless, the overall health of the Big 12 lives and dies with Texas. So its a mistake that does not matter that much.

(04-09-2013 02:52 PM)Jericho Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 02:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You'll never see Texas in the ACC. Why should they join the ACC, when they rule a conference all by themselves? In the ACC, they'd merely be another voice...

The idea would be for Texas to go independent in football and ACC for other sports. I'm sure Texas would love the power of being another Notre Dame in the college football world, but it will need some help for its other sports and so forth. It makes some sense, but I'm not sure either party really wants it.

As to the original post, I'd agree with the consensus. Not choosing Louisville was a mistake. Whether that meant Louisville over West Virginia or Louisville with West Virginia. Either would have worked. You did not even have to have #12 lined up right away. Nevertheless, the overall health of the Big 12 lives and dies with Texas. So its a mistake that does not matter that much.

It'll never happen. Bet on it...

WVU and the ACC seem to have too much bad blood to make a deal + it makes more sense for the acc to target wvu if clemson/fsu were really thinking about moving to the big 12. I don't think those school's make that move unless the big 10 or sec raids the acc first. The better move for the acc right now is probably the alliance with the big 12 to fight off the big 10/sec. I like a complete football only league of 24 with 4 pods of 6 but that would require a rule change.

I think the only way the ACC gets WVU to play in the conference is if it merges with the B12...

(04-09-2013 02:26 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 01:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 12:19 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:45 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, i don't know why the big 12 just didn't jump to 11 with LVILLE if they were uncertain about pick 12 or more. Well, i can guess, 11 isn't as clean cut as 12, probably would have taken a short term $ hit, and the big 12 figured Lville had no place to go. Lesson learned is to think long term rather than short term but i'm not sure how that applies to other leagues right now. The acc could pick up UCONN but than they would need a football only school to pair with ND. I think the better move for the ACC would be to offer WVU, thus they would box the big 12 out of its region. Would WVU jump is another issue but i think the acc should tell them they have an open invite for spot 16, than they could worry about the football only after wvu moved.

Navy......

Two problems with this WVU to the ACC scenario... GoR and Pride. I really get the second one.

That part was not my quote. I know about the GOR and even without that, I don't think that WVU would ever end up in the ACC.

The ACC has had plenty of opportunities to invite WVU, starting with when the conference first formed, and there have been multiple excuses as to why WVU was unacceptable to the ACC since (not coastal, terrain, roads, academics). I no longer care, and am sick of listening to the whiny children on WVU forums who wish things were otherwise...

I'd prefer WVU be independent again, rather than join the ACC. If WVU ever does join a conference other than the B12, I prefer the SEC over any other - including the B1G...

The SEC would be your best "fit".

And the Big Ten takes Rutgers and Maryland because of TV sets and population............
they also don't want really good programs that can compete and win national titles either,
like Louisville.

(04-09-2013 03:57 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  And the Big Ten takes Rutgers and Maryland because of TV sets and population............
they also don't want really good programs that can compete and win national titles either,
like Louisville.

Which is odd considering their last football national title back in 2002/3(?) was a fluke and their last basketball title was back in 1999-00.

Cheers,
Neil

Louisville's academics are in no way a match for the Big Ten.

Adding teams to a conference based on how good their football or basketball programs are is a mistake. These things are cyclical. The ACC has tried it, over and over, and it has failed spectacularly. How's the plan working out to put Miami and FSU in the ACC title game every year?

Conferences SHOULD add programs based on factors like cultural fit and geography, with "how good is your football team" a distant third. These huge conferences, where the schools have competing interests and little in common -- these conferences are bound to fail.

(04-09-2013 09:47 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  WVU has had more success historically in football. They have more of a national following and a flagship state school. If the B12 could only take one, they made a good choice.

Now you can argue they should have snagged UofL along with WVU, then yes I think they should have done it along with a another school roughly in the same area.

West Virginia has a national following?