The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

It's not too bright of Selig to have hyped up a "young, up-tempo coach" when he wanted Jones all along is it? I mean, unless you think he's an idiot that makes little to no sense.

(04-09-2013 08:28 AM)djnva Wrote:  It's not too bright of Selig to have hyped up a "young, up-tempo coach" when he wanted Jones all along is it? I mean, unless you think he's an idiot that makes little to no sense.

What evidence do you have that says "he wanted Jones all along"?

The information that has been pieced together and discussed publicly would lead us to believe that this is not true.

This over emphasis on P.R. and concern about how we "look" to the outside world troubles me a little. I think it's symptomatic of alot that is wrong with our culture. P.R. has become synonamous with "spin" which rapidly turns into lying. Just look at our politics. Since when do people need to be afraid of telling the truth because of how it might make them look? If Selig put a spin on how wonderful the response to the job had been and the quality of the applicants, it may well have contributed to fans unrealistic expectations.

(04-09-2013 08:36 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  This over emphasis on P.R. and concern about how we "look" to the outside world troubles me a little. I think it's symptomatic of alot that is wrong with our culture. P.R. has become synonamous with "spin" which rapidly turns into lying. Just look at our politics. Since when do people need to be afraid of telling the truth because of how it might make them look? If Selig put a spin on how wonderful the response to the job had been and the quality of the applicants, it may well have contributed to fans unrealistic expectations.

Agreed. Communication is a problem in this hiring case. It may be the only problem, we don't know. Things were said and certain people went out and bought 1000 shares of it. When the stock didn't perform as they thought it would, they are suspecting something sinister happened. It may just be the result of unplanned effects and not something sinister at all.

Predisposition, rather than open minded thinking, is at play here.

(04-09-2013 08:31 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:28 AM)djnva Wrote:  It's not too bright of Selig to have hyped up a "young, up-tempo coach" when he wanted Jones all along is it? I mean, unless you think he's an idiot that makes little to no sense.

What evidence do you have that says "he wanted Jones all along"?

The information that has been pieced together and discussed publicly would lead us to believe that this is not true.

I think you read that wrong, Flagship. From what I read, he's saying instead of it being some big conspiracy, it's a lack of foresight and a failure to deliver on what he described as a desirable candidate.

(04-09-2013 08:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:31 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:28 AM)djnva Wrote:  It's not too bright of Selig to have hyped up a "young, up-tempo coach" when he wanted Jones all along is it? I mean, unless you think he's an idiot that makes little to no sense.

What evidence do you have that says "he wanted Jones all along"?

The information that has been pieced together and discussed publicly would lead us to believe that this is not true.

I think you read that wrong, Flagship. From what I read, he's saying instead of it being some big conspiracy, it's a lack of foresight and a failure to deliver on what he described as a desirable candidate.

Damn. I think you are right. I read that first sentence from the wrong angle. Thanks.
Apologies to djnva.

(04-09-2013 08:45 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:31 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:28 AM)djnva Wrote:  It's not too bright of Selig to have hyped up a "young, up-tempo coach" when he wanted Jones all along is it? I mean, unless you think he's an idiot that makes little to no sense.

What evidence do you have that says "he wanted Jones all along"?

The information that has been pieced together and discussed publicly would lead us to believe that this is not true.

I think you read that wrong, Flagship. From what I read, he's saying instead of it being some big conspiracy, it's a lack of foresight and a failure to deliver on what he described as a desirable candidate.

Absolutely agree. And it was more than just a poor sales job on the part of the AD. It was a squandered opportunity.



To paraphrase a much earlier post on some other thread by ODUAlum78 (or at least I think it was him), AD Selig had a golden opportunity, and in fact a firm directive from his fanbase, to go bigtime.

Jeff Jones may in fact be a bigtime hire. But the way that AD Selig went about it was purely small time. In doing so, he shortchanged a very loyal fanbase and did a real disservice to Coach Jones. It was either lazy or incompetent, or perhaps a mix of both.

At least that's my take.

EDIT: Note to self, read the entire thread.

Well Flag it looks like we finally have a little common ground. Maybe Selig would have been better off not commenting as he did early in the process about the size and quality of the applicant pool. Maybe saying less would have been advisable. Sometimes less is more.

(04-09-2013 09:22 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Well Flag it looks like we finally have a little common ground. Maybe Selig would have been better off not commenting as he did early in the process about the size and quality of the applicant pool. Maybe saying less would have been advisable. Sometimes less is more.

Yeah.

Let's all remember that next time when we're begging for info :)

(04-09-2013 05:41 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Ignore the messenger for just a moment and focus on the message:

(04-08-2013 10:33 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Again, wood isn't dumb, he's just sneaky. He knew the reaction to jones would be negative and if people found out BEFORE HAND he was a final candidate people would have protested.

Why isn't this exactly right? And if you pretend that it's not Razor who said it and agree with the point, ask yourself whether you are comfortable it.

There are places in society for sneaky people. (Anyone reading or watching The Game of Thrones series can appreciate the "Varys" and "Littlefinger" characters.) But do you really want these folks in positions of leadership?

Before this hire, everyone on this board (and in the ODU fanbase at large) was viewing the mbb head coach position as the MOST important hire yet for the Selig administration. Perhaps his "Plan A" went awry, as did "Plan B" and "Plan C". Unfortunate things sometimes happen. But when they do, we expect leaders to stand up to the problem. Not to pull something sneaky and then pawn it off as the plan all along. That, in my assessment, is what AD Selig has done with regard to this hire.

Coach Jones may turn out to be terrific, and perhaps even the perfect guy for this position. But AD Selig has done him a huge disservice by introducing him to the ODU community in the way that he did. Wood Selig played the role of the sneak instead of a leader.

What's done is done. I hope that the fallout remains contained on the desk of AD Selig, because from what I can tell he is solely the author of the problem. Coach Jones deserves our support, and I am looking forward to renewing my season tickets and cheering him on loudly as we enter into CUSA play.

Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

(04-09-2013 09:22 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Well Flag it looks like we finally have a little common ground. Maybe Selig would have been better off not commenting as he did early in the process about the size and quality of the applicant pool. Maybe saying less would have been advisable. Sometimes less is more.

I completely agree.

Most of my time on this board is spent trying to get people to look at both, or multiple, sides to every situation (for example, is poor shooting a result of poor offense or good defense?). If we all asked the question "what other reason could there be?", I think we will find the board experience more useful. Assuming things based on a little information that is released by any one of multiple sources is not always right. Many posters are quick to assume something suspicious instead of assuming there is a good reason for certain results.

I'm all for asking the hard questions here though. I'm just against coming to conclusions without facts when there could be perfectly good explanations for things. Selig has shown in recent cases that he will not come out and explain what happened because of at least two reasons; 1) He won't say negative things about others and 2) he won't say things that will put others in a difficult situation. Some here will add that he won't take blame. I'm not sure if there is a situation where his handling or decision has been proven wrong yet.

#2 pertains to this case IMO. He made the mistake of outlining the goals of the search thinking that there will be plenty of qualified and interested candidates. Exactly what happened is unclear, but at this point, nothing can be said without making things difficult on Jones. Selig is stuck and just has to ride things out.

Based on what we all know right now, all we can blame Selig on is the way things were communicated before the announcement. The silence since is perfectly understandable IMO.

(04-09-2013 09:34 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

So let me get this straight. Do you believe that the only way to be successful is to go with a young coach and an up-tempo offense? I think that's the only reason why someone would think that Selig "over promised and under delivered" and that he "botched this hire".

(04-09-2013 09:53 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:34 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

So let me get this straight. Do you believe that the only way to be successful is to go with a young coach and an up-tempo offense? I think that's the only reason why someone would think that Selig "over promised and under delivered" and that he "botched this hire".

Not sure how you got that from my message because it's not the meaning.

I have nothing against Jeff Jones because it's Wood Selig that set up this debacle.

But I'll be clear, the process was not good. . Don't leak names to the media and get people excited about a hire and say they are "all currently in the NCAA or NBA" when you're bringing in a coach coming off a 10-20 record that has past personal issues (after we just got rid of a coach for personal issues).

It's a clear bait and switch, and that's something that will piss people off.

And saying you "misspoke" just isn't going to cut it when people have strong suspicions of cronyism at play.

Wood thought he could make this hire with little to no public scrutiny.
The move comes off someone with a small-time, small town mindset, that may of worked at WKU, but is clearly unacceptable from a educated and large fan base in a major metropolitan area.

(04-09-2013 10:32 AM)monarchman Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:53 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:34 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

So let me get this straight. Do you believe that the only way to be successful is to go with a young coach and an up-tempo offense? I think that's the only reason why someone would think that Selig "over promised and under delivered" and that he "botched this hire".

Not sure how you got that from my message because it's not the meaning.

I have nothing against Jeff Jones because it's Wood Selig that set up this debacle.

But I'll be clear, the process was not good. . Don't leak names to the media and get people excited about a hire and say they are "all currently in the NCAA or NBA" when you're bringing in a coach coming off a 10-20 record that has past personal issues (after we just got rid of a coach for personal issues).

It's a clear bait and switch, and that's something that will piss people off.

And saying you "misspoke" just isn't going to cut it when people have strong suspicions of cronyism at play.

Wood thought he could make this hire with little to no public scrutiny.
The move comes off someone with a small-time, small town mindset, that may of worked at WKU, but is clearly unacceptable from a educated and large fan base in a major metropolitan area.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you but you said that Selig "botched the hire". The hire is Jeff Jones. But you then said "the process was not good". And then you essentially talked about the general communications during the process.

My point here is this:
1. There is the choice of coach.
2. There is the hiring process.
3. There is the communication during the process.

These are three different things.

I don't think anyone can complain about #2 since we really don't know much about it. A committee was put together to narrow the field and then they began interviews. Not much more that we know. What more went into this? What was planned out but abandoned and why? At this point, we don't know.

I have no problem if someone wants a different style of coach. That's just opinion. We all have one. But one thing for sure is that there is no one forumla to success.

It seems most of us are complaining about the communication. I think we can all agree it could have been better. But I believe at this point, there is nothing that can be said that won't come with unintended consequences.

(04-09-2013 10:59 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 10:32 AM)monarchman Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:53 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:34 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

So let me get this straight. Do you believe that the only way to be successful is to go with a young coach and an up-tempo offense? I think that's the only reason why someone would think that Selig "over promised and under delivered" and that he "botched this hire".

Not sure how you got that from my message because it's not the meaning.

I have nothing against Jeff Jones because it's Wood Selig that set up this debacle.

But I'll be clear, the process was not good. . Don't leak names to the media and get people excited about a hire and say they are "all currently in the NCAA or NBA" when you're bringing in a coach coming off a 10-20 record that has past personal issues (after we just got rid of a coach for personal issues).

It's a clear bait and switch, and that's something that will piss people off.

And saying you "misspoke" just isn't going to cut it when people have strong suspicions of cronyism at play.

Wood thought he could make this hire with little to no public scrutiny.
The move comes off someone with a small-time, small town mindset, that may of worked at WKU, but is clearly unacceptable from a educated and large fan base in a major metropolitan area.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you but you said that Selig "botched the hire". The hire is Jeff Jones. But you then said "the process was not good". And then you essentially talked about the general communications during the process.

My point here is this:
1. There is the choice of coach.
2. There is the hiring process.
3. There is the communication during the process.

These are three different things.

I don't think anyone can complain about #2 since we really don't know much about it. A committee was put together to narrow the field and then they began interviews. Not much more that we know. What more went into this? What was planned out but abandoned and why? At this point, we don't know.

I have no problem if someone wants a different style of coach. That's just opinion. We all have one. But one thing for sure is that there is no one forumla to success.

It seems most of us are complaining about the communication. I think we can all agree it could have been better. But I believe at this point, there is nothing that can be said that won't come with unintended consequences.

We can complain about any of those points. There's plenty to pick from.
1. No hire is going to be 100% accepted by everyone. Some people like Jones (there are certainly bright spots) and some people don't (he has some warts). You could do this with any coach.
2. Selig discussed the process in the media. He didn't follow through on things he believed were important. He said he would do A but instead did B. That is a legitimate grip. Maybe there are good reasons but we don't know.
3. I think there's a strong case that Selig said too much. Of course fans want as much information as possible. But as the person responsible for the hire, Selig has to use discretion in what he decides to say. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Selig's approach.

It's a part of the administrations job to manage perception.

Flagship, I do not know your employment position, and I certainly don't want to come across as condescending, but in private industry the standard for professionals is not "you must prove with specificity what it was that I did wrong before you criticize me." Professionals are hired to do a job, and to do it right. They are subject to having their performance critiqued even absent specifically provable instances of malfeasance.

Do I know what happened behind Wood Selig's closed doors? Nope, and I'm not one of those who even care to know.

What I do see are the results -- an unhappy fan base, a new coach who has been introduced under far-less-than-ideal circumstances and an administration that appears to be totally in the dark as to how all this could have possibly happened. That could very well be an unfair assessment. But as AD he is (or at least should be) accountable.

(04-09-2013 11:17 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Flagship, I do not know your employment position, and I certainly don't want to come across as condescending, but in private industry the standard for professionals is not "you must prove with specificity what it was that I did wrong before you criticize me." Professionals are hired to do a job, and to do it right. They are subject to having their performance critiqued even absent specifically provable instances of malfeasance.

Do I know what happened behind Wood Selig's closed doors? Nope, and I'm not one of those who even care to know.

What I do see are the results -- an unhappy fan base, a new coach who has been introduced under far-less-than-ideal circumstances and an administration that appears to be totally in the dark as to how all this could have possibly happened. That could very well be an unfair assessment. But as AD he is (or at least should be) accountable.

What does Wood Selig being held accountable look like to you. It seems to me that he has already suffered as much as he should in the form of damaged credibility in the eyes of many fans. If anybody is expecting some sort of administrative punishment I would say don't hold your breath.

(04-09-2013 11:17 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Flagship, I do not know your employment position, and I certainly don't want to come across as condescending, but in private industry the standard for professionals is not "you must prove with specificity what it was that I did wrong before you criticize me." Professionals are hired to do a job, and to do it right. They are subject to having their performance critiqued even absent specifically provable instances of malfeasance.

Do I know what happened behind Wood Selig's closed doors? Nope, and I'm not one of those who even care to know.

What I do see are the results -- an unhappy fan base, a new coach who has been introduced under far-less-than-ideal circumstances and an administration that appears to be totally in the dark as to how all this could have possibly happened. That could very well be an unfair assessment. But as AD he is (or at least should be) accountable.

I am saying that the "unhappy fan base" is also irrational and not open minded to the fact that there could be reasonable explanations for things. We are not shareholders of a company, and even if we were, the company is not obligated to explain every detail. I'm not asking people to change their opinion on anything. I'm asking them to consider the facts, and in the absense of facts, consider all possible explanations before positioning their suspicions.


So you say that the AD is accountable. I think he should be for many things. What specifically are you talking about?

And you say that the administration appears to be "totally in the dark as to how all this could have possibly happened". I don't know what you are talking about here. Who is the "administration" that is not in the know?

But yet you said that you don't care to know what happened behind Selig's closed doors.

So this tells me that you have made up your mind based on a limited amount of information and possibly misinformation and you don't care to receive any other information. Is that right?

(04-09-2013 09:53 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 09:34 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Very well said.

Wood botched this hire and really gave a bad start to a new head coach when it wasn't necessary.

Over promised and under delivered. Worse, he comes off as untruthful and not trustworthy. He needs to be held accountable, too much money, and too much damage to the image of ODU for him to get off Scott Free; we'll see if Broderick or the Board actually cares.

So let me get this straight. Do you believe that the only way to be successful is to go with a young coach and an up-tempo offense? I think that's the only reason why someone would think that Selig "over promised and under delivered" and that he "botched this hire".

OK I will bite. I do believe that going with a young energetic coach that can inspire the fan base and recruits is the only way for a mid major to make the leap to competing at the highest level. In fact, if you believe otherwise I encourage you to provide an example of a mid major hiring a retread and then ultimately propelling the program from the mid major level to the top tier.