(03-31-2013 09:08 AM)owl40 Wrote:  Personally, I have heard athletes treated in what the 'law' would call hostile (e.g., put on that skirt, 'n' word in joking manner between athletes/coaches, athletes being referred to as various types of animals, athletes body parts/function being called out, people's weight, peoples backgrounds being made fun of, etc.). All rated R or NC-17 kind of stuff that is personal but done in a way that in college athletics is just part of what is.

Thanks for this post. I believe it is plausible that many of the phrases were said, but they were said in what all involved at the time considered the context to be humorous and friendly rather than the ugly bigoted view they have without context.

Even if that is true, of course, one can second guess the judgement of the grown ups. It's kind of an oral version of the mantra, "don't write an email that you wouldn't want to see published in the New York Times".

If true, in other words, it's reckless bad management in the 21st century, not reckless lack of basic human decency.

Is litigation speculation or on record somewhere?

(03-31-2013 10:30 AM)At Ease Wrote:  Is litigation speculation or on record somewhere?

EEOC Complaint implies litigation on the horizon...

http://www.eeoc.gov/employees/process.cfm

(03-31-2013 07:03 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  There has been a few wisps of talk that Greenspan is gone at the end of this semester. If this is true and was Rice's plan (along with the announcements of denial), this is not an acceptable solution by any means.

It is a better solution than Greenspan staying...

So, if the report are true, I have been absolutely wrong. He was not doing nothing, retired in place. He was chasing away athletes. Perhaps some of his vociferous supporters from last year (who have been noticeably quiet after putting us down for our criticism of him), can concoct a theory that this is part of a master plan to get us in a better conference. This is apparently what they meant by, we need to trust RG, he has a plan. I guess this was the plan.

(03-31-2013 07:03 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  There has been a few wisps of talk that Greenspan is gone at the end of this semester. If this is true and was Rice's plan (along with the announcements of denial), this is not an acceptable solution by any means.

Well at least we can save few bucks buying the rights to the firerickgreenspan webpage from IU!

(03-31-2013 12:07 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:03 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  There has been a few wisps of talk that Greenspan is gone at the end of this semester. If this is true and was Rice's plan (along with the announcements of denial), this is not an acceptable solution by any means.

Well at least we can save few bucks buying the rights to the firerickgreenspan webpage from IU!

(03-31-2013 08:57 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:01 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The litigation is of more concern than public opinion. Litigation can do some damage, whereas the public - and this forum is not "the public"- will have forgotten about this by next weekend.

this is pure speculation, but it would be plausible to me that Morcos is going all-in on the litigation.

Here are salient facts/hypotheses:

1. His Camden experience makes him toxic for high school basketball
2. The defection of all of his Rice recruits makes him toxic for college basketball.
3. They Egyptian economy is in meltdown, likely curbing their budget available for the national team, which Morcos would be a plausible candidate to coach.
4. Rice has deep pockets.

Apart from jackpot justice, his best career options seem to be JuCo (where all players have to move on) and the NBA (for which he has no obvious qualifications)

I don't expect him to coach anywhere as his past will prove a problem. I think he is entirely happy being an "agent", "consultant", or "adviser" to players and teams. He certainly can steer talent to US Colleges, non-US Pro Leagues etc.

(03-31-2013 12:18 PM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 12:07 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:03 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  There has been a few wisps of talk that Greenspan is gone at the end of this semester. If this is true and was Rice's plan (along with the announcements of denial), this is not an acceptable solution by any means.

Well at least we can save few bucks buying the rights to the firerickgreenspan webpage from IU!

I believe that Army holds the original rights to the domain name. Hell we might even have to pay BMI and ASCAP royalties with the popularity of the site name.

(03-31-2013 12:44 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:57 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:01 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The litigation is of more concern than public opinion. Litigation can do some damage, whereas the public - and this forum is not "the public"- will have forgotten about this by next weekend.

this is pure speculation, but it would be plausible to me that Morcos is going all-in on the litigation.

Here are salient facts/hypotheses:

1. His Camden experience makes him toxic for high school basketball
2. The defection of all of his Rice recruits makes him toxic for college basketball.
3. They Egyptian economy is in meltdown, likely curbing their budget available for the national team, which Morcos would be a plausible candidate to coach.
4. Rice has deep pockets.

Apart from jackpot justice, his best career options seem to be JuCo (where all players have to move on) and the NBA (for which he has no obvious qualifications)

I don't expect him to coach anywhere as his past will prove a problem. I think he is entirely happy being an "agent", "consultant", or "adviser" to players and teams. He certainly can steer talent to US Colleges, non-US Pro Leagues etc.

Exactly. With his recent clients getting call-ups to USC and Oregon, I strongly suspect Morcos is making more money in his current job than as a coach.

(03-31-2013 07:03 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  There has been a few wisps of talk that Greenspan is gone at the end of this semester. If this is true and was Rice's plan (along with the announcements of denial), this is not an acceptable solution by any means.

Man, talk about "sweet whispers"...

To be clear, I'm not as conflicted about the means as long as it reaches the desired end. If this whole ordeal with Kazemi is actually nothing more than a complex ruse by Leebron to force out Greenspan, I'm onboard. Clever lad, David.

Let's make sure someone snaps a photo of the onstage handshake between Arsalan and Leebron at next year's graduation. If zoomed in on the embracing hands, I'm quite confident we'll see a folded hundred-dollar bill.

Or a Nike gift card.

Morcos is not going to make enough money from litigation with Rice to set him up for life. It just won't happen. Should he sue (after the EEOC process runs its course), he is in a tough venue (the Southern District of Texas) that is in a tough circuit (the Fifth) for employment discrimination. I agree with those that say Rice is in a "bunker mentality" right now, and if I were its counsel, I'm not sure I'd tell them to do anything different. Though, with this approach, Rice just has to appreciate that it will take some licks, PR-wise.

However, I further agree with those that the licks may not be too terrible. Rice's saving grace is that it is absolutely irrelevant in college sports, so nobody cares. With regard to people who ostensibly do care--the Rice community--even the fallout there is most likely minimal. Like KTRU, like Rice's changes of its alcohol policy, the inexorable decline in Rice athletics, etc., Leebron & Co. know that, no matter how unpopular a development or policy is, they just need to wait for awhile and the storm will die. It always does. The Rice community is pretty apathetic as a whole, and the students are an itinerant population that turns over every four years, going on to graduate school, weddings, and quickly-constructed townhouses with stainless steel appliances.

Having had the chance to think about this for a couple of days, I've revised my thinking: this will be but a blip when all is said and done. For better or worse.

(03-31-2013 01:49 PM)Barrett Wrote:  ... this will be but a blip when all is said and done.

Rice Athletics: Death by a Thousand Blips.

(03-31-2013 01:49 PM)Barrett Wrote:  Morcos is not going to make enough money from litigation with Rice to set him up for life. It just won't happen. Should he sue (after the EEOC process runs its course), he is in a tough venue (the Southern District of Texas) that is in a tough circuit (the Fifth) for employment discrimination. I agree with those that say Rice is in a "bunker mentality" right now, and if I were its counsel, I'm not sure I'd tell them to do anything different. Though, with this approach, Rice just has to appreciate that it will take some licks, PR-wise.
However, I further agree with those that the licks may not be too terrible. Rice's saving grace is that it is absolutely irrelevant in college sports, so nobody cares. With regard to people who ostensibly do care--the Rice community--even the fallout there is most likely minimal. Like KTRU, like Rice's changes of its alcohol policy, the inexorable decline in Rice athletics, etc., Leebron & Co. know that, no matter how unpopular a development or policy is, they just need to wait for awhile and the storm will die. It always does. The Rice community is pretty apathetic as a whole, and the students are an itinerant population that turns over every four years, going on to graduate school, weddings, and quickly-constructed townhouses with stainless steel appliances.
Having had the chance to think about this for a couple of days, I've revised my thinking: this will be but a blip when all is said and done. For better or worse.

Generally agree with all of this except maybe the last. I'm not sure it will be just a blip, because this program is currently in a very fragile place and might not even be able to withstand a blip. If it is nothing more than a blip, that is probably more bad than good, because that introduces the possibility that the impact might not shift us off the current course. And the current course is unsustainable. We NEED it to be more than a blip, but in a positive way, because we need something to drive substantial changes to the current trajectory.

(03-31-2013 08:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:16 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Army? Indiana? Greenspan worked there? Who in the general public remembers that or cares?

I just meant that Greenspan is in fact a serial killer of athletic programs.

Sad but true.

(03-31-2013 02:51 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:16 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Army? Indiana? Greenspan worked there? Who in the general public remembers that or cares?

I just meant that Greenspan is in fact a serial killer of athletic programs.

Sad but true.

I'm not defending Greenspan, just saying that we can come back from him.

Look at where Indiana was in the Big Dance this year. They survived him.

(03-31-2013 02:53 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 02:51 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:16 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Army? Indiana? Greenspan worked there? Who in the general public remembers that or cares?

I just meant that Greenspan is in fact a serial killer of athletic programs.

Sad but true.

I'm not defending Greenspan, just saying that we can come back from him.

Look at where Indiana was in the Big Dance this year. They survived him.

Army athletics still hasn't recovered.

(03-31-2013 02:55 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 02:53 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 02:51 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:21 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:16 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Army? Indiana? Greenspan worked there? Who in the general public remembers that or cares?

I just meant that Greenspan is in fact a serial killer of athletic programs.

Sad but true.

I'm not defending Greenspan, just saying that we can come back from him.

Look at where Indiana was in the Big Dance this year. They survived him.

Army athletics still hasn't recovered.

Agreed. He just isn't a SERIAL killer.

More like an incompetent leader.

(03-31-2013 01:49 PM)Barrett Wrote:  However, I further agree with those that the licks may not be too terrible. Rice's saving grace is that it is absolutely irrelevant in college sports, so nobody cares. With regard to people who ostensibly do care--the Rice community--even the fallout there is most likely minimal.

At least it's hard to conceive that Rice did this for competitive advantage. Or that anyone can exploit this for additional advantage.

(03-31-2013 12:44 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:57 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 01:01 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The litigation is of more concern than public opinion. Litigation can do some damage, whereas the public - and this forum is not "the public"- will have forgotten about this by next weekend.

this is pure speculation, but it would be plausible to me that Morcos is going all-in on the litigation.

Here are salient facts/hypotheses:

1. His Camden experience makes him toxic for high school basketball
2. The defection of all of his Rice recruits makes him toxic for college basketball.
3. They Egyptian economy is in meltdown, likely curbing their budget available for the national team, which Morcos would be a plausible candidate to coach.
4. Rice has deep pockets.

Apart from jackpot justice, his best career options seem to be JuCo (where all players have to move on) and the NBA (for which he has no obvious qualifications)

I don't expect him to coach anywhere as his past will prove a problem. I think he is entirely happy being an "agent", "consultant", or "adviser" to players and teams. He certainly can steer talent to US Colleges, non-US Pro Leagues etc.

How does an athlete remain NCAA eligible if has an agent?