(03-27-2013 11:39 AM)CalallenStang Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 11:25 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Nbe/A12 is a shiny babe today but what will the old gal look like tomorrow?

It doesn't matter, because it can always fix its appearance by picking the schools that don't want to be in the new Sunbelt (CUSA)

I sure hope this comment is proven wrong after a 2014 season where the undefeated C-USA champion is the first of the non-AQ to play in the big dollar bowl game because the best record either the MWC or nBE could produce was an 11-2 champion.

It's time for everyone to bloom where they are planted. The nBE, as C-USA, left a track record of parity which saw its champion always passed over when the BCS game match-ups were announced. Let's play the games in 2014 and see what happens.

(03-27-2013 11:21 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 10:47 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Tallgrass, Tulsa World is technically correct today, b/c the presidents haven't formally voted yet. Probably happens next week. Too bad for you.

It is a lateral transfer without achieving the primary goal of stability.

By your logic (and those of many others on this board), accepting the WAC-16 invitation was great!

If Nbe/A12 holds together, that's great!

If it's a lateral move, then answer just one questions.

Why is every single team that has been offered moved from CUSA to NBE, and why haven't any teams moved from NBE to CUSA?

Waiting for answer.....

(03-27-2013 11:21 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 10:47 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Tallgrass, Tulsa World is technically correct today, b/c the presidents haven't formally voted yet. Probably happens next week. Too bad for you.

It is a lateral transfer without achieving the primary goal of stability.

By your logic (and those of many others on this board), accepting the WAC-16 invitation was great!

If Nbe/A12 holds together, that's great!

Its not a lateral transfer. Its not even a lateral transfer from the 2012 version of CUSA. The competition level is higher, the pay is higher, and the exposure is much much higher. Its certainly not a lateral transfer from the 2014 version of CUSA which will have a very Sunbelty/FCS feel. And unless you consider losing more than half of your conference in 2 years "stable" then Tulsa's current situation is not stable anyway. Basically, the C-TBA is just the best lifeboat available right now for eastern non-AQ schools.

As far as the stability situation---it wont be stable for any of the gang of five other than maybe the Mountain West. Thier geographic isolation is their saving grace when it comes to the realignment circus.

LOL at the troll meltdown.

(03-27-2013 07:50 AM)freshtop Wrote:  They all say this while they wait for an official announcement from the conference. It is a done deal, they just can't make a public statement.

Honestly, I think the Big East f'd up with the Tulane announcement. It was clear from ECU admin that the announcement was to be in a day or two and someone from Tulane jumped the gun...upstaging ECU and having them throw together a last second, unorganized press conference. I'd wager that they are giving ECU it's day. Tulsa will be announced tomorrow.

(03-27-2013 12:29 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 11:21 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 10:47 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Tallgrass, Tulsa World is technically correct today, b/c the presidents haven't formally voted yet. Probably happens next week. Too bad for you.

It is a lateral transfer without achieving the primary goal of stability.

By your logic (and those of many others on this board), accepting the WAC-16 invitation was great!

If Nbe/A12 holds together, that's great!

If it's a lateral move, then answer just one questions.

Why is every single team that has been offered moved from CUSA to NBE, and why haven't any teams moved from NBE to CUSA?

Waiting for answer.....

Ego, panic, and public perception. With time, as some of the new CUSA teams develop and start winning and are on the more public viewed CUSA platform, the public perception will of inferior/superior will decline. This will probably start with the CUSA/Nbe bowls where CUSA and Nbe will undoubtedly play each other.

Recall that when Louisville, CIncy, and USF left CUSA, everyone thought CUSA was doomed. But CUSA established better bowls and better tv exposure than the old CUSA. I expect that to happen again.

But I am calling it a lateral move because any NonAQ team must pick up a couple significant BCS victories in their nonconference schedule to have any significant hope of landing in a BCS bowl (and go undefeated, of course). All NonAQ teams are in the same boat...the boat BCS wants us in.

Please note that I have never stated CUSA is superior to Nbe. What I said is that CUSA remains a fine competitive conference. All my questions have been to regard as to long term security, primarily Tulsa, and also how can NonAQ teams and conference cooperate to better their current postion, a position of only 1 out of 12 playoff and BCS bowl slots allocated to NonAQs. My perspective is that both issues, security and a better position with BCS, are tightly related.

(03-27-2013 12:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 11:21 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 10:47 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Tallgrass, Tulsa World is technically correct today, b/c the presidents haven't formally voted yet. Probably happens next week. Too bad for you.

It is a lateral transfer without achieving the primary goal of stability.

By your logic (and those of many others on this board), accepting the WAC-16 invitation was great!

If Nbe/A12 holds together, that's great!

Its not a lateral transfer. Its not even a lateral transfer from the 2012 version of CUSA. The competition level is higher, the pay is higher, and the exposure is much much higher. Its certainly not a lateral transfer from the 2014 version of CUSA which will have a very Sunbelty/FCS feel. And unless you consider losing more than half of your conference in 2 years "stable" then Tulsa's current situation is not stable anyway. Basically, the C-TBA is just the best lifeboat available right now for eastern non-AQ schools.

As far as the stability situation---it wont be stable for any of the gang of five other than maybe the Mountain West. Thier geographic isolation is their saving grace when it comes to the realignment circus.

Regarding your comments which I have put in bold, that is not exactly correct. Your state Nbe is superior to CUSA because it has a higher paying contract and more exposure. What is more correct to say is that the 7 CUSA schools joining Nbe/A12 essentially broke their FOX/CBS tv contract and renegotiated it from $1.2M to $1.6M. If these 7 CUSA schools never left CUSA, they would probably have gotten the same boost when it came time for CUSA to renegotiate its contract. The Nbe "power" conference is no power conference at all in terms of tv money negotiation.

The B12 went from $12M per B12 school to $20M, a 66% increase. The seven CUSA schools went from $1.2M to $1.8M, a 50% increase. And, the $600,000 increase was only gained by agreeing to a bunch of midweek games and throwing in a ton of Nbe/A12 inventory for which little was returned in boosted dollars.

CUSA has its contract with FOX and CBS so these two broadcast outlets will again be there. Plus NBC. And then there are the new broadcast outlets and technologies coming on stage. While it is probably frustrating to CUSA to have to wait for three more years before renegotiating its tv contract, I have no doubt CUSA will increase its telecasts and monies as its NonAQ colleagues in the Nbe/A12.

I agree with you that the stability problem will continue to plague the NonAQ world.

In Tallgrass' definition of lateral...a move from the ACC to the SEC is a lateral move because they have the exact same access to the big bowls. We all know that isn't true.

C-USA and C-TBA may have the same access but in no way is it a lateral move to move from C-USA to C-TBA. There is FAR more to conference affiliation than just bowl access.

(03-27-2013 04:08 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In Tallgrass' definition of lateral...a move from the ACC to the SEC is a lateral move because they have the exact same access to the big bowls. We all know that isn't true.

C-USA and C-TBA may have the same access but in no way is it a lateral move to move from C-USA to C-TBA. There is FAR more to conference affiliation than just bowl access.

TCU Football Coach Gary Patterson on TCU's move from CUSA to MWC: "If BCS status in not obtained, it is a lateral move."

(03-27-2013 11:44 AM)IceJus10 Wrote:  The Aresco (Big East) Conference is higher on the pecking order than the C-USA, MAC, or Sunbelt -- if it was a truly a lateral move, people would be switching back and forth and they don't... it's like baseball... the best of whichever get called up the pecking order!

The Big 3 are the Majors
The ACC/Big12 are AAA
The Big East/MWC are AA
CUSA/MAC are A
Sunbelt is Short-Season Rookie A
and the FCS is independent (non-affiliated) leagues (where some get woo'd by an affiliation and into development leagues)

Pretty solid analogy. Well done.

(03-27-2013 04:48 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:08 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In Tallgrass' definition of lateral...a move from the ACC to the SEC is a lateral move because they have the exact same access to the big bowls. We all know that isn't true.

C-USA and C-TBA may have the same access but in no way is it a lateral move to move from C-USA to C-TBA. There is FAR more to conference affiliation than just bowl access.

TCU Football Coach Gary Patterson on TCU's move from CUSA to MWC: "If BCS status in not obtained, it is a lateral move."

Yes, and Gary Patterson is God. There are quite a few Coaches, ADs and Presidents that would disagree with him.

(03-27-2013 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  What do they always say about denial?

Its a river in Egypt

(03-27-2013 08:52 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:48 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:08 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In Tallgrass' definition of lateral...a move from the ACC to the SEC is a lateral move because they have the exact same access to the big bowls. We all know that isn't true.

C-USA and C-TBA may have the same access but in no way is it a lateral move to move from C-USA to C-TBA. There is FAR more to conference affiliation than just bowl access.

TCU Football Coach Gary Patterson on TCU's move from CUSA to MWC: "If BCS status in not obtained, it is a lateral move."

Yes, and Gary Patterson is God. There are quite a few Coaches, ADs and Presidents that would disagree with him.

Let me put it this way...it is much more likely that a school in the MWC-(Boise State/New Mexico) or a school in the Aresco-12-(UConn, Cincinnati & Houston) has a better shot @ get'n into either the ACC/Big XII-(Contract Leagues) then the upcoming C-FCSunbelt

(03-27-2013 11:21 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 10:47 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Tallgrass, Tulsa World is technically correct today, b/c the presidents haven't formally voted yet. Probably happens next week. Too bad for you.

It is a lateral transfer without achieving the primary goal of stability.

The only stable Mid-Major conferences at present as the MWC and the MAC, one a step up from Conference USA, the other a step down, and so far as we know neither has an invite out.

So its a pick of three unstable conferences, Conference USA, the Big TBA, a step up from Conference USA, or the Sunbelt, a step down from Conference USA.

And we don't need to try to play verbal games with any of this ~ the Pac-12 raided the MWC when it needed a partner for Colorado, so the Pac-12 is a step up from the MWC.

The Big Ten raided the ACC and the Old Big East because it needed more rapidly growing markets and populations and wanted them in the Northeast Corridor. So the Big Ten is a step up from the ACC and the Old Big East.

Then the ACC raided the Old Big East again, before its last raid had even been consummated, so the ACC is a step up from the Old Big East.

If you gave UConn, UC, Temple and/or USF a choice between the Old Big East and what they are in, they'd pick the Old Big East, so the Old Big East is a step up from the Big TBA.

Boise State and SDSU bailed on moving to the Big TBA, so the Big TBA is at best lateral to the MWC.

The schools raided by the Old Big East from Conference USA are still going through to the Big TBA, so the Big TBA is a step up from Conference USA.

Conference USA is reloading from the Sunbelt, so Conference USA is a step up from the Sunbelt. It previously raided the MAC for the MAC's on-again, off-again Marshall, so at least before being recently raided was clearly a step up from the MAC.

And the Sunbelt and MAC have both most recently gained members either as promoted FCS schools or independents previously playing in conferences that abandoned FBS football, so they'd be at the bottom of the totem pole. But MAC Basketball at present is better than Sunbelt, and with MTSU being raided the gap is only going to get bigger, so there's that.

But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The only arguments are conferences not connected by "To" and "From" ~ SEC / Big Ten / PAC-12; ACC / Big-12; MWC / Big TBA; MAC / Sunbelt.

(03-27-2013 10:16 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Boise State and SDSU bailed on moving to the Big TBA, so the Big TBA is at best lateral to the MWC for schools located west of the Rockies.

FIFY

Why in the hell would anyone not want their school to get invited to a better conference?

TG, if you're really a Tulsa fan, then I don't understand you. Do you really want to play UTSA and UNT that bad?

We do seem to agree on one thing: Tulsa going to the A12 is not a done deal. I have never thought it made sense, and the timing of this rumor seemed to imply that it came straight from TU itself.