(03-27-2013 08:38 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I'm all in favor of Wichita State + VCU. The only question is if they would accept. The Metro's tv revenue is so low that it might not cover the increased travel costs.

I'd hate to see VCU leave the A10. That conference has taken enough hits recently and is already destined to lose SLU and one other team in the near future. That said, those two teams would be excellent additions to the Metro. They are the only two that the Metro should consider if they choose to have any members that don't play football. Like you, I'm not sure if they would accept if invited.

(03-27-2013 08:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 08:21 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  C-TBD needs to lock up some of these teams. It will be nice to make a splash in basketball.

How much would the FBall only schools like to divide their pie even further, and would they offer the hoops schools a full slice or try to offer them less because "football drives the bus"

It would likely be a share of hoops tv revenue and hoops tourney credits like most other split membership leagues do with it.

So probably 20% or so of the 2mm payout in TV + an equal tourney share.

I was thinking about this the other day: why not invite Witchita State AND VCU, George Mason, George Washington, La Salle and St. Joe's if we can be guaranteed that we will not lose money in the process? It would strengthen basketball and perhaps make Cincy, UConn and Temple a bit happier.

Of course, I would also want to invite USM and ODU all sports... so what do I know...

I'm all for adding Wichita St as a non-football member. Or VCU. Or both.

(03-27-2013 01:23 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  I was thinking about this the other day: why not invite Witchita State AND VCU, George Mason, George Washington, La Salle and St. Joe's if we can be guaranteed that we will not lose money in the process? It would strengthen basketball and perhaps make Cincy, UConn and Temple a bit happier.

Of course, I would also want to invite USM and ODU all sports... so what do I know...

Wait so you want to create a large body of schools who's sole interest in hoops and put them in a football / hoops hybrid conference...

What could go wrong?

(03-27-2013 02:57 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Wait so you want to create a large body of schools who's sole interest in hoops and put them in a football / hoops hybrid conference...

What could go wrong?

The hybrid worked fine in CUSA 1.0 because the conference was established as a hybrid. There wasn't animosity between the football playing members and those who didn't because everyone was on board with the hybrid concept from day one. Not coincidentally that was a very good basketball conference.

The problem in the Big East was that most of the founding members didn't play football and had to be coerced multiple times into having the conference sposnor the sport well after the conference had established its core identity around basketball. The hybrid didn't work there because of that resentment and fear, not because hybrids are inherently unstable. I don't think Conference TBD is going to create a hybrid, but it could be done successfully.

(03-27-2013 03:16 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:57 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Wait so you want to create a large body of schools who's sole interest in hoops and put them in a football / hoops hybrid conference...

What could go wrong?

The hybrid worked fine in CUSA 1.0 because the conference was established as a hybrid. There wasn't animosity between the football playing members and those who didn't because everyone was on board with the hybrid concept from day one. Not coincidentally that was a very good basketball conference.

The problem in the Big East was that most of the founding members didn't play football and had to be coerced multiple times into having the conference sposnor the sport well after the conference had established its core identity around basketball. The hybrid didn't work there because of that resentment and fear, not because hybrids are inherently unstable. I don't think Conference TBD is going to create a hybrid, but it could be done successfully.

It wokred fine in CUSA 1.0 because it was a different world. The poles have shifted and I doubt any conference will last too long as a serious hybrid. One or two maybe but not more than a quarter of the conference.

Once you go hybrid every expansion move from that point on has to pass muster with the hoops schools or be accompanied by "one of theirs"

(03-27-2013 02:57 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Wait so you want to create a large body of schools who's sole interest in hoops and put them in a football / hoops hybrid conference...

That's something to avoid. Any non-FB schools should be paired with FB-only schools. The Old Big East boxed itself into a corner, with so many BBall-only schools they couldn't add all-sports schools when in a position of raid the ACC or be raided, which left the "be raided" road as the one they took.

With only one FB-only school on tap, that would limit it to one non-FB school, and either VCU and Wichita State would help solidify the conference BBall strength of program.

(03-27-2013 03:45 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:57 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Wait so you want to create a large body of schools who's sole interest in hoops and put them in a football / hoops hybrid conference...

That's something to avoid. Any non-FB schools should be paired with FB-only schools. The Old Big East boxed itself into a corner, with so many BBall-only schools they couldn't add all-sports schools when in a position of raid the ACC or be raided, which left the "be raided" road as the one they took.

With only one FB-only school on tap, that would limit it to one non-FB school, and either VCU and Wichita State would help solidify the conference BBall strength of program.

I agree one or two non FB schools, *maybe* 3... Anything over that is asking for huge trouble if your conference has less than 12 FBall Schools..

(03-27-2013 02:21 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I'm all for adding Wichita St as a non-football member. Or VCU. Or both.

YES PLEASE!

We would go back to ESPN and CBS and see what additional revenue they would offer for 3 solid NCAA tourney caliber teams. If it is at least revenue neutral it is a no brainier. If one of those schools get to the sweet 16 or elite 8 it is $$$ for all. They get the benefit of more exposure.

(03-27-2013 02:21 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  I'm all for adding Wichita St as a non-football member. Or VCU. Or both.

I'd be fine with VCU for sure, and Im certainly not opposed to Wichita.

It would really help the new conference in hoops if Houston could get their shitt together. Too much great history to be floundering like they are. Hire a young, hungry coach and put a some money in facilities. That NIT crowd for the Texas game was embarrassing. If you can't put more than 1,000 butts in the seats for a game against Texas, when can you?

(03-27-2013 07:49 PM)Mothball Wrote:  It would really help the new conference in hoops if Houston could get their shitt together. Too much great history to be floundering like they are. Hire a young, hungry coach and put a some money in facilities. That NIT crowd for the Texas game was embarrassing. If you can't put more than 1,000 butts in the seats for a game against Texas, when can you?

Most Houston fans want Dickey gone, but Mack cant admit he made a mistake...so until then, those crowds will be just like that. If we would bring in a young energetic guy with a proven track record at a smaller school, basketball attendance would improve significantly---especially once the 40 million dollar basketball arena renovation is completed. By the way, that was a CIT game against Texas, not an NIT game. Tons of Texas fans in Houston, and they didnt show up either. I think both fans bases were unhappy with their respective current clip board holders.

My bad. I knew it was CIT.

But, just from the perspective of an outsider, I woulda thought a game against the Longhorns woulda been a hard sellout. I just think Houston is a sleeping giant in hoops. I've thought that for years though. It just seems that y'all have made one bad hire after another. I think Drexler really set you guys back. Sort of like the Larry Porter hire set us back in football.

(03-27-2013 08:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:49 PM)Mothball Wrote:  It would really help the new conference in hoops if Houston could get their shitt together. Too much great history to be floundering like they are. Hire a young, hungry coach and put a some money in facilities. That NIT crowd for the Texas game was embarrassing. If you can't put more than 1,000 butts in the seats for a game against Texas, when can you?

Most Houston fans want Dickey gone, but Mack cant admit he made a mistake...so until then, those crowds will be just like that. If we would bring in a young energetic guy with a proven track record at a smaller school, basketball attendance would improve significantly---especially once the 40 million dollar basketball arena renovation is completed. By the way, that was a CIT game against Texas, not an NIT game. Tons of Texas fans in Houston, and they didnt show up either. I think both fans bases were unhappy with their respective current clip board holders.

UT was 15-17 going into the game. Fans just didn't care.

Wichita makes for cleaner divisions:

Wichita
Memphis
Tulsa
Tulane
Southern Methodist
Houston

South Florida
Central Florida
East Carolina
Cincinnati
Temple
Connecticut

You could switch Wichita and Memphis with the two Florida schools and go with North/South divisions if you want schools to be in the same divisions for all sports.

Elite 8....

Would Wichita State even want to move?

If the TBD-League is really going to be big I would go with the following teams:
Well, it's kind of a wishful thinking league, but i t would have some merits.
Add the following schools:
Army (football only) to compliment Navy (football only)
Rice (full member) - peer school ( it is important for the private schools as you see the in the adding of Tulsa) for Tulane, SMU, Tulsa for Navy and Army also a good fit)
Umass (full member) - travel partner for Uconn and regional rival for Temple, Navy and Army, good basketball, state flagship school
Southern Miss (full member) - regional rival for Tulane, Memphis, SMU, Tulsa and Houson and Rice, good old cusa rival for a lot of teams in the tbd league.
and add two non football schools for the East VCU and for the West Wichita State.
This wouls give foolwing Divisions:
Football Setup - Zipper Version

Umass - Uconn
Temple - ECU
Army - Navy
Tulsa - SMU
Tulane - Southern Miss
USF - UCF
Memphis - Cincy
Houston - Rice

Basketball setup:
4 Pods ( Own Pod: Home and Home = 6 games, all other Pods once = 12 Games) alltogether 18 Games conference schedule

Cincy
Uconn
Umass
Temple

VCU
ECU
UCF
USF

Memphis
Wichita State
Tulsa
SMU

Tulane
USM
Rice
Houston


This would give a very good league and if Cincy , Uconn or another Team is poached from another league it is very easy to refill, I think strenght in numbers is one of the most important points in this environment for the GOF-Members

With this setup the TV contracts needs to be renegoatied