You can't watch Appalachian State beat Michigan, in Ann Arbor, in the NFL.

(03-26-2013 08:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 07:12 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 04:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 02:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 10:14 AM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote:  Wrong --- and correct, both at the same time. The "poor product" is a relative term; completely. Placing those non high school starters in UF unis and pitting them against the 2012 Alabama team then certainly the UF fans will eventually stop coming.....but if BOTH teams drop off in speed, strength and versatility then the average fan won't see much difference at all and even the fan who is a student of the game won't see enough difference in the game to stop attending. Of course the drop off won't be as bad as "current" players who couldn't even start in high school.......more like receivers going from 4.35-4.45 forty times to receivers with 4.65 forty times. The actual difference in those two times is about the difference in a "lean for the tape" and not leaning for the tape in a 40 yard race.

I personally think once the break off is made and the Go5 are a separate division from the 64 +/- "haves" the television guys are going to be real sorry when 35-40% of the market stops watching on television since those 35-40% of the fans teams will then have officially been completely excluded.

I USED to go to the home games (and special and/or close away games) and watch other games before and after. If I wasn't going to attend I'd watch games from 10 am central to past midnight if Hawai'i was playing at home and on TV. NOW, I go to the same games but I MIGHT watch one or two games that don't involve MY team, max, during the whole year. I didn't watch a single bowl game this year with the exception of about 20 minutes of the mythical national championship game.

I'm not so sure you have the right of it here. Most fans of smaller schools also have bigger schools that they root for, and I doubt that would change. Most would still watch the games, even if their school was no longer a part of the process...

I think you might be surprised - once your team is no longer on the same level, the other college teams, even the top ones, hold somewhat less interest. Especially since, if you really want to see top-notch football, you watch NFL games. I know a lot of people that went to small schools and none of them watch college football. Only those that went to Division I schools seem to be interested, among the people I know. Maybe it's a midwestern thing. I never watched college football until I went to college, and probably wouldn't have been interested if we hadn't been playing schools I'd heard of.

In the short term, perhaps. But in the long run, it will all settle out...

As for Herd fans, they may not like how things are working out for Marshall. But in the long run, it's West Virginia against the rest of the nation. That how it's always been, and it won't change. And even though WVU fans give Marshall fans all kinds of crap, the majority root for Marshall against their foes. It only turns to outright hatred when the Herd plays WVU, except for a stubborn few...

I was thinking of it the opposite way. The impact wouldn't be immediate but gradually increase over time, just like attendance in general has dropped for most college programs. IDK. I hope it doesn't come to that. But I can find other things to do than watch football.

You don't know West Virginia or West Virginians. There's always been an us against the rest of the nation mentality there, and I doubt that will ever change. We root for native West Virginians in everything, simply because they are West Virginians, and if they go to a West Virginia college or university, we adopt them...

(03-26-2013 04:55 PM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote:  I think I'm pretty much dead on....the wvu's of the world have the wvu alumni and 70% of the sidewalk alumni. Those guys won't leave wvu because Marshall isn't included in the 64+/- cartel.....but I can damn well tell you the Marshall fans won't suddenly become wvu fans because of it either. AND, based on your statement you're telling me that MOST of Marshall's fans are actually wvu fans? That's something you'll never convince me of - any Marshall fans want to pipe in on their opinion?

Here you go HERD fans, answer me this -- (1) are you really a closet wvu fan? Come on, be honest. The wvu poster thinks most of you are. (2) Are you going to become a mountaineer fan when it becomes crystal clear that Marshall and the rest of the Go5 has no chance - ZERO - and never will have a chance at the mythical national championship? (3) Is there any "go 'eers" in your future?

Actually, I was a WVU fan before I was a died in the wool, bleeds green, Marshall fan. I was rooting for WVU back in their old Southern Conference days where their basketball series against the likes of Davidson, were legendary.

Now, sure I always was a bit pissed off that WVU wouldn't play Marshall in football, but now that we've had our chance, and failed in seven games to beat them, I'm over it. Frankly, I became even more interested in them when they went to the Big 12. I thought they were better than the Big East, and wanted to see them do well in the Big 12.

So, yeah, I root for WVU when they aren't playing us. I"m not the only one, either, although I will admit that some MU fans detest WVU, but that's the nature of the beast.

I personally think Marshall is exactly where we need to be...in a fan friendly, regional conference, with natural rivals, where we have a chance to return to some glory days. I have no visions of being in a Power 5 conference, and I think in 5-10 years CUSA will have earned as much respect as the TBA conference.

To me, Charlotte, ODU, MTSU, UAB, FIU, FAU and probably WKU are just fine with me, as division partners, although I'll miss USM.

Go 'eers! Beat Texas! Go Herd!

(03-27-2013 01:17 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  H1, I totally disagree w/ you on rivalries being outdated. Who exactly will Pitt and WVU have future rivalries with? Almost all of the current ACC & Big XII rivalries are pretty much well established. I can't see WVU replacing Texas as Texas Tech's primary rival or Pitt replacing Duke as North Carolina's primary rival. Sure both can establish some interesting secondary rivalries. Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now? If a rivalry hasn't been established yet, one isn't going to happen. Ask a Texas fan if playing Texas Tech is the same as playing A&M. And I completely understand that Oklahoma is also a huge game on their schedule but A&M was a huge revenue generator on the 'Horns home schedule. I just find it insulting that an fan of a school w/ 0 risk of losing any of its primary rivals is saying these changes are for the greater good of the game. Rivalries just don't pop up overnight. None of us fans on this board made these changes. However we understand that the moves were necessary because, its either move on or get left behind. And that's really a damn shame.

Conference Realignment has always been around. Some leagues sprung up while others died off. However its not as crazy and intense as it is today. I'm unsure if if these changes will drive fans away from the games or not. I tend to think time will heal wounds and people will continue to watch because they love their schools or just the game itself. But fans will miss those old rivalries.

If the ACC does not lose any more schools then Pitt has plenty of in conference rivals. In football they have Syracuse and Louisville. They could also build up one with Boston College. If things break open then it would depend upon where they land. If they stay in the depleted ACC then both of the above listed schools will likely still be there. Perhaps then other Eastern schools move in and that will be even more opportunity for rivalries that matter for Pitt. You are going to continue to have Notre Dame either way so really I do not understand the complaining about Pitt. Pitt has plenty of options in the future compared to some others that are really losing out.

In regard to WVU? Well they chose to join the Big 12. That is up to them to build some long distance rivalries there. In my opinion the best ending for WVU is if the leftover 8 in the Big 12 decide at some point to all move together to merge with the PAC. That would only happen if TCU and WVU are taken in by a willing SEC. In that case WVU will have some amazing new local rivalries. First for them would be Tennessee. Second would be Kentucky. Hatfield and McCoy anyone? Third would be the possible renewal of a rivalry with Virginia Tech. Fourth is more of a longshot but they might end up in the same conference with Louisville with either the Big 12 or SEC. Plenty of options, everyone is freaking out far too soon.

(03-27-2013 06:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 07:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 10:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 06:30 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Nope, rivalries can happen for many reasons, schools dont have to be in the same conference for them. Competition makes for a great rivalry. You can have a rivalry, you can have great fan following for it but if it is clearly a one sided rivalry then it is not a competitive rivalry.

You can stop trying to attribute ideas to me. That is called creating a strawman. Argue against what I do say not what you are trying to attribute to me. It is a sign of weakness to falsely attribute a stance to me and then to argue against that stance for half of your damn post.

I am not even going to go into anymore individual rivalries. Feel free to disagree with me about my example but the downward spiral that is the Tennessee football program is proof enough that they need new, competitive rivalries.

My main point wasnt about going on a diatribe about rivalries, it was that college football is not going to be harmed. It's viewership will rise even with the loss of viewership of the "old guard" that says they will supposedly stop watching. Go ahead, stop watching then. That isn't going to stop what is coming. I will enjoy college football in whatever form it is brought to us in because I like college football better than pro football for a multitude of reasons.

With the new set up that is coming, more people will begin to get into it.

That is your hope, wish and desire. That may be the networks hope, wish and desire. That does not make it a fact.

Who are these new fans? Why would they tune into college football just because it may have intra-conference playoffs?

Some guy in New Jersey who follows the Jets and the Islanders and ignores college football is now going to watch Wisconsin play Michigan State in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff?

He is going to suddenly get all excited and interested in college football because of this when he could care less previously?

Why? I don't see it. I think that NFL fans in the Northeast, for instance, will continue to favor the NFL and have little interest in big 16 or 20 school conferences creating "new rivalries" and playing each other in intra-conference playoffs.

I think ripping up the fabric of college football and killing old rivalries built up over a century will turn out to be detrimental to the game.

But, that is my opinion. You have yours. Time will tell.

By other belief is that all the people crying foul on these forums are representative of a larger number of folks that are just crying wolf. Most folks that say they will stop watching college football if this all happens really won't stop watching college football when it all happens.

You are right though, it is just two opinions and time will indeed tell.

That is sort of a strawman there, He1nous. I wasn't "crying wolf" in the post you responded to.

My point was that it seems unlikely that Joe Pro Sports in Patterson, NJ will suddenly become passionate about Big Ten football because Wisconsin is playing Michigan State (or whatever configuration) in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff.

Your belief is that "new rivalries" will be created and "t-shirt fans" will suddenly flock to the college game when they ignored it previously because the Big Ten may expand to 20 school and have "intra-conference playoffs".

My belief is that they will yawn and turn the channel to watch the Nets or the Islanders.

I wasn't talking about the downside in my post (that current fans will be turned off by "NFL Lite")

It is an debate without a resolution unless/until it happens and we all can see what effects it brings.

I was speaking more in general terms Terry. You are more of a unique property. You have always been about ND and not much else. So big changes in college football really isn't going to change your viewing tendencies at all. Notre Dame will remain with NBC and you will always have them to watch and that will be most of what you watch.

In fact I bet you end up watching more of other games than you realize when College Football's true postseason is fully fleshed out. I of course could be wrong because I don't really know you all that well but today's postseason is complete garbage in terms of actually figuring out who the best team is. When it is being done more properly, it is going to be much more interesting.

That being said though, my "crying wolf" comment is more about the folks on here that are saying things like college football is going to die due to these changes. That is just completely laughable. These voices on the internet are just ranting, they are also a very small minority. Most folks that closely follow a certain University's program will continue to do so. Most folks that support an entire conference will continue to do so. Yes, people will *****, moan and gripe but people always do that and then they get over it. The Network Execs know that and they have the Metrics to prove it.

(03-27-2013 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:17 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  H1, I totally disagree w/ you on rivalries being outdated. Who exactly will Pitt and WVU have future rivalries with? Almost all of the current ACC & Big XII rivalries are pretty much well established. I can't see WVU replacing Texas as Texas Tech's primary rival or Pitt replacing Duke as North Carolina's primary rival. Sure both can establish some interesting secondary rivalries. Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now? If a rivalry hasn't been established yet, one isn't going to happen. Ask a Texas fan if playing Texas Tech is the same as playing A&M. And I completely understand that Oklahoma is also a huge game on their schedule but A&M was a huge revenue generator on the 'Horns home schedule. I just find it insulting that an fan of a school w/ 0 risk of losing any of its primary rivals is saying these changes are for the greater good of the game. Rivalries just don't pop up overnight. None of us fans on this board made these changes. However we understand that the moves were necessary because, its either move on or get left behind. And that's really a damn shame.

Conference Realignment has always been around. Some leagues sprung up while others died off. However its not as crazy and intense as it is today. I'm unsure if if these changes will drive fans away from the games or not. I tend to think time will heal wounds and people will continue to watch because they love their schools or just the game itself. But fans will miss those old rivalries.

If the ACC does not lose any more schools then Pitt has plenty of in conference rivals. In football they have Syracuse and Louisville. They could also build up one with Boston College. If things break open then it would depend upon where they land. If they stay in the depleted ACC then both of the above listed schools will likely still be there. Perhaps then other Eastern schools move in and that will be even more opportunity for rivalries that matter for Pitt. You are going to continue to have Notre Dame either way so really I do not understand the complaining about Pitt. Pitt has plenty of options in the future compared to some others that are really losing out.

In regard to WVU? Well they chose to join the Big 12. That is up to them to build some long distance rivalries there. In my opinion the best ending for WVU is if the leftover 8 in the Big 12 decide at some point to all move together to merge with the PAC. That would only happen if TCU and WVU are taken in by a willing SEC. In that case WVU will have some amazing new local rivalries. First for them would be Tennessee. Second would be Kentucky. Hatfield and McCoy anyone? Third would be the possible renewal of a rivalry with Virginia Tech. Fourth is more of a longshot but they might end up in the same conference with Louisville with either the Big 12 or SEC. Plenty of options, everyone is freaking out far too soon.

Dude... Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now. If it was going to develop into a rivalry it would've decades ago. WTF don't you get here. Over the past 20 years Pitt has lost PSU and WVU. OK got PSU for a few seasons later this decade. Playing Louisville will never have the same feel as WVU or PSU.

SMH

(03-27-2013 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:17 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  H1, I totally disagree w/ you on rivalries being outdated. Who exactly will Pitt and WVU have future rivalries with? Almost all of the current ACC & Big XII rivalries are pretty much well established. I can't see WVU replacing Texas as Texas Tech's primary rival or Pitt replacing Duke as North Carolina's primary rival. Sure both can establish some interesting secondary rivalries. Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now? If a rivalry hasn't been established yet, one isn't going to happen. Ask a Texas fan if playing Texas Tech is the same as playing A&M. And I completely understand that Oklahoma is also a huge game on their schedule but A&M was a huge revenue generator on the 'Horns home schedule. I just find it insulting that an fan of a school w/ 0 risk of losing any of its primary rivals is saying these changes are for the greater good of the game. Rivalries just don't pop up overnight. None of us fans on this board made these changes. However we understand that the moves were necessary because, its either move on or get left behind. And that's really a damn shame.

Conference Realignment has always been around. Some leagues sprung up while others died off. However its not as crazy and intense as it is today. I'm unsure if if these changes will drive fans away from the games or not. I tend to think time will heal wounds and people will continue to watch because they love their schools or just the game itself. But fans will miss those old rivalries.

If the ACC does not lose any more schools then Pitt has plenty of in conference rivals. In football they have Syracuse and Louisville. They could also build up one with Boston College. If things break open then it would depend upon where they land. If they stay in the depleted ACC then both of the above listed schools will likely still be there. Perhaps then other Eastern schools move in and that will be even more opportunity for rivalries that matter for Pitt. You are going to continue to have Notre Dame either way so really I do not understand the complaining about Pitt. Pitt has plenty of options in the future compared to some others that are really losing out.

In regard to WVU? Well they chose to join the Big 12. That is up to them to build some long distance rivalries there. In my opinion the best ending for WVU is if the leftover 8 in the Big 12 decide at some point to all move together to merge with the PAC. That would only happen if TCU and WVU are taken in by a willing SEC. In that case WVU will have some amazing new local rivalries. First for them would be Tennessee. Second would be Kentucky. Hatfield and McCoy anyone? Third would be the possible renewal of a rivalry with Virginia Tech. Fourth is more of a longshot but they might end up in the same conference with Louisville with either the Big 12 or SEC. Plenty of options, everyone is freaking out far too soon.

Dude... Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now. If it was going to develop into a rivalry it would've decades ago. WTF don't you get here. Over the past 20 years Pitt has lost PSU and WVU. OK got PSU for a few seasons later this decade. Playing Louisville will never have the same feel as WVU or PSU.

SMH

He'll never get it. Iowa doesn't really have any rivalries of any note that people ever associated with them aside from ISU. And frankly, no one could care less if that game is played. So for Heinous, this is the perfect opportunity to get a "reset" so that Iowa gets its chance at getting a newer, "better" rivalry. You know, us Pitt fans who were raised in the Pittsburgh area have such an "embarrassment of riches" when it comes to sports entertainment that we need to STFU and just let CFB go down the tubes for the sake of those "newer", "better" rivalries that will catapult us into the 21st century...

(03-27-2013 07:57 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:17 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  H1, I totally disagree w/ you on rivalries being outdated. Who exactly will Pitt and WVU have future rivalries with? Almost all of the current ACC & Big XII rivalries are pretty much well established. I can't see WVU replacing Texas as Texas Tech's primary rival or Pitt replacing Duke as North Carolina's primary rival. Sure both can establish some interesting secondary rivalries. Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now? If a rivalry hasn't been established yet, one isn't going to happen. Ask a Texas fan if playing Texas Tech is the same as playing A&M. And I completely understand that Oklahoma is also a huge game on their schedule but A&M was a huge revenue generator on the 'Horns home schedule. I just find it insulting that an fan of a school w/ 0 risk of losing any of its primary rivals is saying these changes are for the greater good of the game. Rivalries just don't pop up overnight. None of us fans on this board made these changes. However we understand that the moves were necessary because, its either move on or get left behind. And that's really a damn shame.

Conference Realignment has always been around. Some leagues sprung up while others died off. However its not as crazy and intense as it is today. I'm unsure if if these changes will drive fans away from the games or not. I tend to think time will heal wounds and people will continue to watch because they love their schools or just the game itself. But fans will miss those old rivalries.

If the ACC does not lose any more schools then Pitt has plenty of in conference rivals. In football they have Syracuse and Louisville. They could also build up one with Boston College. If things break open then it would depend upon where they land. If they stay in the depleted ACC then both of the above listed schools will likely still be there. Perhaps then other Eastern schools move in and that will be even more opportunity for rivalries that matter for Pitt. You are going to continue to have Notre Dame either way so really I do not understand the complaining about Pitt. Pitt has plenty of options in the future compared to some others that are really losing out.

In regard to WVU? Well they chose to join the Big 12. That is up to them to build some long distance rivalries there. In my opinion the best ending for WVU is if the leftover 8 in the Big 12 decide at some point to all move together to merge with the PAC. That would only happen if TCU and WVU are taken in by a willing SEC. In that case WVU will have some amazing new local rivalries. First for them would be Tennessee. Second would be Kentucky. Hatfield and McCoy anyone? Third would be the possible renewal of a rivalry with Virginia Tech. Fourth is more of a longshot but they might end up in the same conference with Louisville with either the Big 12 or SEC. Plenty of options, everyone is freaking out far too soon.

Dude... Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now. If it was going to develop into a rivalry it would've decades ago. WTF don't you get here. Over the past 20 years Pitt has lost PSU and WVU. OK got PSU for a few seasons later this decade. Playing Louisville will never have the same feel as WVU or PSU.

SMH

He'll never get it. Iowa doesn't really have any rivalries of any note that people ever associated with them aside from ISU. And frankly, no one could care less if that game is played. So for Heinous, this is the perfect opportunity to get a "reset" so that Iowa gets its chance at getting a newer, "better" rivalry. You know, us Pitt fans who were raised in the Pittsburgh area have such an "embarrassment of riches" when it comes to sports entertainment that we need to STFU and just let CFB go down the tubes for the sake of those "newer", "better" rivalries that will catapult us into the 21st century...

You guys lost them because you guys have a terrible following. Of course from your side you are angry about it but PSU and WVU folks really aren't all that upset about it so don't go getting all hostile at me.

You can turn this into an insult session and circle the wagons with your Pitt buddy Miko, honestly I don't give a damn what you think about me. Your shot at Iowa means nothing to me because I am not a tribalistic follower. I support them but even if they lost the rivalry game with Iowa State, I wouldn't get all distraught over it.

I find all these emotional responses to be quite childish and your attempts to circle wagons with him to attack me is just too funny Miko. You have sunk to a new level. Sounds like Pitt is losing some of its last few fans.


On some level you are correct though, I am always open to change and new possible rivalries. I am not just talking about Iowa. Unlike you, I follow the sport in general just as much as I follow on team in particular. I am interested in how the changes will affect the Big Picture. So if folks like you want to cry and rant about the growing pains then go ahead but sorry I dont have any tissue for you.

(03-27-2013 07:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 07:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 10:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 06:30 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Nope, rivalries can happen for many reasons, schools dont have to be in the same conference for them. Competition makes for a great rivalry. You can have a rivalry, you can have great fan following for it but if it is clearly a one sided rivalry then it is not a competitive rivalry.

You can stop trying to attribute ideas to me. That is called creating a strawman. Argue against what I do say not what you are trying to attribute to me. It is a sign of weakness to falsely attribute a stance to me and then to argue against that stance for half of your damn post.

I am not even going to go into anymore individual rivalries. Feel free to disagree with me about my example but the downward spiral that is the Tennessee football program is proof enough that they need new, competitive rivalries.

My main point wasnt about going on a diatribe about rivalries, it was that college football is not going to be harmed. It's viewership will rise even with the loss of viewership of the "old guard" that says they will supposedly stop watching. Go ahead, stop watching then. That isn't going to stop what is coming. I will enjoy college football in whatever form it is brought to us in because I like college football better than pro football for a multitude of reasons.

With the new set up that is coming, more people will begin to get into it.

That is your hope, wish and desire. That may be the networks hope, wish and desire. That does not make it a fact.

Who are these new fans? Why would they tune into college football just because it may have intra-conference playoffs?

Some guy in New Jersey who follows the Jets and the Islanders and ignores college football is now going to watch Wisconsin play Michigan State in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff?

He is going to suddenly get all excited and interested in college football because of this when he could care less previously?

Why? I don't see it. I think that NFL fans in the Northeast, for instance, will continue to favor the NFL and have little interest in big 16 or 20 school conferences creating "new rivalries" and playing each other in intra-conference playoffs.

I think ripping up the fabric of college football and killing old rivalries built up over a century will turn out to be detrimental to the game.

But, that is my opinion. You have yours. Time will tell.

By other belief is that all the people crying foul on these forums are representative of a larger number of folks that are just crying wolf. Most folks that say they will stop watching college football if this all happens really won't stop watching college football when it all happens.

You are right though, it is just two opinions and time will indeed tell.

That is sort of a strawman there, He1nous. I wasn't "crying wolf" in the post you responded to.

My point was that it seems unlikely that Joe Pro Sports in Patterson, NJ will suddenly become passionate about Big Ten football because Wisconsin is playing Michigan State (or whatever configuration) in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff.

Your belief is that "new rivalries" will be created and "t-shirt fans" will suddenly flock to the college game when they ignored it previously because the Big Ten may expand to 20 school and have "intra-conference playoffs".

My belief is that they will yawn and turn the channel to watch the Nets or the Islanders.

I wasn't talking about the downside in my post (that current fans will be turned off by "NFL Lite")

It is an debate without a resolution unless/until it happens and we all can see what effects it brings.

I was speaking more in general terms Terry. You are more of a unique property. You have always been about ND and not much else. So big changes in college football really isn't going to change your viewing tendencies at all. Notre Dame will remain with NBC and you will always have them to watch and that will be most of what you watch.

In fact I bet you end up watching more of other games than you realize when College Football's true postseason is fully fleshed out. I of course could be wrong because I don't really know you all that well but today's postseason is complete garbage in terms of actually figuring out who the best team is. When it is being done more properly, it is going to be much more interesting.

That being said though, my "crying wolf" comment is more about the folks on here that are saying things like college football is going to die due to these changes. That is just completely laughable. These voices on the internet are just ranting, they are also a very small minority. Most folks that closely follow a certain University's program will continue to do so. Most folks that support an entire conference will continue to do so. Yes, people will *****, moan and gripe but people always do that and then they get over it. The Network Execs know that and they have the Metrics to prove it.

Nah, you are wrong about that. You were right in your first paragraph.

If ND is not in the playoff, I will have little interest in watching it, no matter how it is structured.

The rest of college football is largely irrelevant to me.

I just don't think that a new system will change non-fans of college football into college football fans.

(03-27-2013 08:20 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:57 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:40 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:17 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  H1, I totally disagree w/ you on rivalries being outdated. Who exactly will Pitt and WVU have future rivalries with? Almost all of the current ACC & Big XII rivalries are pretty much well established. I can't see WVU replacing Texas as Texas Tech's primary rival or Pitt replacing Duke as North Carolina's primary rival. Sure both can establish some interesting secondary rivalries. Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now? If a rivalry hasn't been established yet, one isn't going to happen. Ask a Texas fan if playing Texas Tech is the same as playing A&M. And I completely understand that Oklahoma is also a huge game on their schedule but A&M was a huge revenue generator on the 'Horns home schedule. I just find it insulting that an fan of a school w/ 0 risk of losing any of its primary rivals is saying these changes are for the greater good of the game. Rivalries just don't pop up overnight. None of us fans on this board made these changes. However we understand that the moves were necessary because, its either move on or get left behind. And that's really a damn shame.

Conference Realignment has always been around. Some leagues sprung up while others died off. However its not as crazy and intense as it is today. I'm unsure if if these changes will drive fans away from the games or not. I tend to think time will heal wounds and people will continue to watch because they love their schools or just the game itself. But fans will miss those old rivalries.

If the ACC does not lose any more schools then Pitt has plenty of in conference rivals. In football they have Syracuse and Louisville. They could also build up one with Boston College. If things break open then it would depend upon where they land. If they stay in the depleted ACC then both of the above listed schools will likely still be there. Perhaps then other Eastern schools move in and that will be even more opportunity for rivalries that matter for Pitt. You are going to continue to have Notre Dame either way so really I do not understand the complaining about Pitt. Pitt has plenty of options in the future compared to some others that are really losing out.

In regard to WVU? Well they chose to join the Big 12. That is up to them to build some long distance rivalries there. In my opinion the best ending for WVU is if the leftover 8 in the Big 12 decide at some point to all move together to merge with the PAC. That would only happen if TCU and WVU are taken in by a willing SEC. In that case WVU will have some amazing new local rivalries. First for them would be Tennessee. Second would be Kentucky. Hatfield and McCoy anyone? Third would be the possible renewal of a rivalry with Virginia Tech. Fourth is more of a longshot but they might end up in the same conference with Louisville with either the Big 12 or SEC. Plenty of options, everyone is freaking out far too soon.

Dude... Pitt and Syracuse has played how many times now. If it was going to develop into a rivalry it would've decades ago. WTF don't you get here. Over the past 20 years Pitt has lost PSU and WVU. OK got PSU for a few seasons later this decade. Playing Louisville will never have the same feel as WVU or PSU.

SMH

He'll never get it. Iowa doesn't really have any rivalries of any note that people ever associated with them aside from ISU. And frankly, no one could care less if that game is played. So for Heinous, this is the perfect opportunity to get a "reset" so that Iowa gets its chance at getting a newer, "better" rivalry. You know, us Pitt fans who were raised in the Pittsburgh area have such an "embarrassment of riches" when it comes to sports entertainment that we need to STFU and just let CFB go down the tubes for the sake of those "newer", "better" rivalries that will catapult us into the 21st century...

You guys lost them because you guys have a terrible following. Of course from your side you are angry about it but PSU and WVU folks really aren't all that upset about it so don't go getting all hostile at me.

You can turn this into an insult session and circle the wagons with your Pitt buddy Miko, honestly I don't give a damn what you think about me. Your shot at Iowa means nothing to me because I am not a tribalistic follower. I support them but even if they lost the rivalry game with Iowa State, I wouldn't get all distraught over it.

I find all these emotional responses to be quite childish and your attempts to circle wagons with him to attack me is just too funny Miko. You have sunk to a new level. Sounds like Pitt is losing some of its last few fans.


On some level you are correct though, I am always open to change and new possible rivalries. I am not just talking about Iowa. Unlike you, I follow the sport in general just as much as I follow on team in particular. I am interested in how the changes will affect the Big Picture. So if folks like you want to cry and rant about the growing pains then go ahead but sorry I dont have any tissue for you.

You don't know much about Pitt, WVU and PSU and the rivalries between all 3. You're not thinking very clearly about the future of CFB. Those things you advocate will change the very things you enjoy about the sport. There is no point explaining it to you any further.

No, there is no point in explaining to YOU any further. You don't know me, you don't know what makes me tick so stop projecting your own personal desires onto me.

Things arent going to go down as you fear so just wallow in your own fear.

What is there to explain? Pitt fan following continues to dwindle while WVU and PSU is strong. Of course you want those rivalries to be maintained but those rivalries died when they became one sided in regards to the followings of said teams.

You can live in the past while moaning and ranting or you can get over it because it is all out of your control. If you dont want to watch college football ever again then don't but get over yourself because it will only be a small minority of people that stop watching. You fail to understand the power of the herd mentality that most people are moved by.

The masses will still watch. Enjoy your fear.

(03-27-2013 07:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 07:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 10:24 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-26-2013 06:30 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Nope, rivalries can happen for many reasons, schools dont have to be in the same conference for them. Competition makes for a great rivalry. You can have a rivalry, you can have great fan following for it but if it is clearly a one sided rivalry then it is not a competitive rivalry.

You can stop trying to attribute ideas to me. That is called creating a strawman. Argue against what I do say not what you are trying to attribute to me. It is a sign of weakness to falsely attribute a stance to me and then to argue against that stance for half of your damn post.

I am not even going to go into anymore individual rivalries. Feel free to disagree with me about my example but the downward spiral that is the Tennessee football program is proof enough that they need new, competitive rivalries.

My main point wasnt about going on a diatribe about rivalries, it was that college football is not going to be harmed. It's viewership will rise even with the loss of viewership of the "old guard" that says they will supposedly stop watching. Go ahead, stop watching then. That isn't going to stop what is coming. I will enjoy college football in whatever form it is brought to us in because I like college football better than pro football for a multitude of reasons.

With the new set up that is coming, more people will begin to get into it.

That is your hope, wish and desire. That may be the networks hope, wish and desire. That does not make it a fact.

Who are these new fans? Why would they tune into college football just because it may have intra-conference playoffs?

Some guy in New Jersey who follows the Jets and the Islanders and ignores college football is now going to watch Wisconsin play Michigan State in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff?

He is going to suddenly get all excited and interested in college football because of this when he could care less previously?

Why? I don't see it. I think that NFL fans in the Northeast, for instance, will continue to favor the NFL and have little interest in big 16 or 20 school conferences creating "new rivalries" and playing each other in intra-conference playoffs.

I think ripping up the fabric of college football and killing old rivalries built up over a century will turn out to be detrimental to the game.

But, that is my opinion. You have yours. Time will tell.

By other belief is that all the people crying foul on these forums are representative of a larger number of folks that are just crying wolf. Most folks that say they will stop watching college football if this all happens really won't stop watching college football when it all happens.

You are right though, it is just two opinions and time will indeed tell.

That is sort of a strawman there, He1nous. I wasn't "crying wolf" in the post you responded to.

My point was that it seems unlikely that Joe Pro Sports in Patterson, NJ will suddenly become passionate about Big Ten football because Wisconsin is playing Michigan State (or whatever configuration) in a Big Ten intra-conference playoff.

Your belief is that "new rivalries" will be created and "t-shirt fans" will suddenly flock to the college game when they ignored it previously because the Big Ten may expand to 20 school and have "intra-conference playoffs".

My belief is that they will yawn and turn the channel to watch the Nets or the Islanders.

I wasn't talking about the downside in my post (that current fans will be turned off by "NFL Lite")

It is an debate without a resolution unless/until it happens and we all can see what effects it brings.

I was speaking more in general terms Terry. You are more of a unique property. You have always been about ND and not much else. So big changes in college football really isn't going to change your viewing tendencies at all. Notre Dame will remain with NBC and you will always have them to watch and that will be most of what you watch.

In fact I bet you end up watching more of other games than you realize when College Football's true postseason is fully fleshed out. I of course could be wrong because I don't really know you all that well but today's postseason is complete garbage in terms of actually figuring out who the best team is. When it is being done more properly, it is going to be much more interesting.

That being said though, my "crying wolf" comment is more about the folks on here that are saying things like college football is going to die due to these changes. That is just completely laughable. These voices on the internet are just ranting, they are also a very small minority. Most folks that closely follow a certain University's program will continue to do so. Most folks that support an entire conference will continue to do so. Yes, people will *****, moan and gripe but people always do that and then they get over it. The Network Execs know that and they have the Metrics to prove it.

Nobody said college football would die. It would just be less popular. Which means less money. They can accept the money they make now with a larger potential audience, or they can cut out some of the audience and take a larger percentage of a smaller audience. Those are the choices.

IF they ever get a postseason that makes sense, that would help. But if that happens AFTER the haves have already distanced themselves from the have-nots, then it may be too late. The more serious MAC fans (the ones that actually watch games on TV), most of them do NOT follow another FBS school. As a matter of fact, it's a point of pride to NOT follow another team, except as a distant second, when their team isn't playing.

Most MAC fans in Ohio still follow Ohio State. I've got lots of family in Ohio MAC country that follow the Buckeyes, and my father, who covered WVU for decades, went to Ohio U. They may be MAC fans. But they still follow the big dog in their state. I don't know about NIU, but as far as the MAC goes, they're not the norm...

(03-25-2013 01:14 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I don't know how the future will look. As others have mentioned in other threads, the networks appear to be driving the bus on realignment. Here are my thoughts on realignment and college sports in general.

I think the networks are looking to "franchise" the biggest name schools and will use a model that has been wildly successful over the past 10+ years - make it look like the NFL. I believe this is what the networks want to see in order to get to a sport that has a true playoff. And in the end it will end up improving the quality of the product on the field. But...it will become NFL lite in the end. Hypothetically if all realignment stops today, and all the current teams are frozen in place and the power 5 are the "rich" - if the split materializes like people think it will then the networks are going to ruin it in the end.

A lot of us are already tuning out and not watching sports to the extent that we used to. I'm pretty much down to watching only one sport on TV now - football. All other sports have been cut out of my life. I Didn't bother to watch the NCAAs this year at all. I have no interest in it anymore. I used to, but there are too many other things going on in my life to bother with unnecessary distractions. It's probably just a matter of time until I stop watching football and then all pro and college sports are out of my life. Anyone else professing similar views will have my respect.

I've about had it with colleges trying to play the game of semi-pro sports franchises. The tail is wagging the dog more than I care to see it. Frankly, I'd rather hear news that Pitt's academic standing in the world goes up by 20 spots than to see Pitt win championships. Seriously, who cares in the end anyways? I was there when the Steelers won their 5th super bowl - hanging on almost every game throughout that season. Guess what? After they won it all, I still had the same amount of bills to pay. I still had the same projects due at work. I still had the same amount of money in my 401k, bank accounts, IRA's, etc... Nothing changed. But I made an investment of time following it all. What did I get for that investment? Ha! A few moments of happiness that soon faded into...nothing.

College sports used to be about the rivalries, the tradition, the sense that these are amateurs who are there playing for their school pride - not for payoffs. Yes, we all knew that it hasn't been this way for quite some time. But you know, the veneer is coming off. What is happening today is that the intentional ignorance we clung to about college athletics is being stripped away. Speaking for myself, it's resulting in my fandom being slowly stripped away too.

I play the game on this forum from time to time. Many of you know what I'm all about, and many of you simply do not get me and you never will. But at the end of the day, whatever happens to Pitt athletics has no bearing on my life. It does not change one iota of my existence in any way. I love my school and I root for it daily. But I care most about what my school does to better itself as a degree granting institution, what does it do in the greater Pittsburgh area and how does Pitt make life better for it's students and everyone associated with it. I root for that. The athletics I truly care about for Pitt now are swimming, track and field, baseball, wrestiling, the sports that do not matter. Because the students who compete in those sports aren't doing it for the big payday. They are doing it because they want to compete and they want the opportunity to get the education. That's what I root for. Football and Basketball? Sure, I still root for it, but I don't care if they really win or lose. Because the truth is that both sports have become a farce, and they really don't reflect the universities anymore. They're mere franchises. I only care about how many times Pitt athletics are shown on TV because that is advertising for the school. Otherwise, I don't care...

Now you guys should know who I am and what I am all about.

There should be a "like" function, because this mirrors my own feelings almost exactly. As an East Carolina fan, I still derive pleasure from watching my team achieve more with less, but as a casual fan across all general sports, my interest has all but disappeared.

For college football, short of a "real playoff," I long for a return to the New Years day blowout that tied the knot on the bow of the college football season. I can stomach one extra game, but really miss the New Years Day extavaganza when there was a big bowl game on every network, all day long. Now? meh.

I'll continue to watch my Pirates and my now hometown team of true amateur athletes over at Navy.

(03-27-2013 09:24 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, there is no point in explaining to YOU any further. You don't know me, you don't know what makes me tick so stop projecting your own personal desires onto me.

Things arent going to go down as you fear so just wallow in your own fear.

What is there to explain? Pitt fan following continues to dwindle while WVU and PSU is strong. Of course you want those rivalries to be maintained but those rivalries died when they became one sided in regards to the followings of said teams.

You can live in the past while moaning and ranting or you can get over it because it is all out of your control. If you dont want to watch college football ever again then don't but get over yourself because it will only be a small minority of people that stop watching. You fail to understand the power of the herd mentality that most people are moved by.

The masses will still watch. Enjoy your fear.

You're funny. You tell us exactly what you want to see and what you expect the future to hold. I voice my concerns that the things you want will ruin the long term prospects of CFB, and you decide to distance yourself from your own views. LOL

(03-28-2013 08:07 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Most MAC fans in Ohio still follow Ohio State. I've got lots of family in Ohio MAC country that follow the Buckeyes, and my father, who covered WVU for decades, went to Ohio U. They may be MAC fans. But they still follow the big dog in their state. I don't know about NIU, but as far as the MAC goes, they're not the norm...

Well you aren't talking about MAC fans really. You're talking about OSU fans that went to a MAC school.

(03-28-2013 09:48 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-28-2013 08:07 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Most MAC fans in Ohio still follow Ohio State. I've got lots of family in Ohio MAC country that follow the Buckeyes, and my father, who covered WVU for decades, went to Ohio U. They may be MAC fans. But they still follow the big dog in their state. I don't know about NIU, but as far as the MAC goes, they're not the norm...

Well you aren't talking about MAC fans really. You're talking about OSU fans that went to a MAC school.

Ehhhh to be honest most people who go to private or more regional schools will have bigger CFB name teams as "their team" along with the school the graduated from. I bet there are a lot of OSU fans at John Carroll U and Case Western Reserve too. Pitt has fans who are CMU grads and I'm sure an awful lot of Gonzaga grads like the bigger CA schools for CFB too.

(03-28-2013 10:17 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-28-2013 09:48 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-28-2013 08:07 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Most MAC fans in Ohio still follow Ohio State. I've got lots of family in Ohio MAC country that follow the Buckeyes, and my father, who covered WVU for decades, went to Ohio U. They may be MAC fans. But they still follow the big dog in their state. I don't know about NIU, but as far as the MAC goes, they're not the norm...

Well you aren't talking about MAC fans really. You're talking about OSU fans that went to a MAC school.

Ehhhh to be honest most people who go to private or more regional schools will have bigger CFB name teams as "their team" along with the school the graduated from. I bet there are a lot of OSU fans at John Carroll U and Case Western Reserve too. Pitt has fans who are CMU grads and I'm sure an awful lot of Gonzaga grads like the bigger CA schools for CFB too.

Doesn't that seem to give lie to your claim that the fans of smaller schools will tune out on the bigger schools if they aren't a part of the process?

(03-28-2013 09:06 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 09:24 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  No, there is no point in explaining to YOU any further. You don't know me, you don't know what makes me tick so stop projecting your own personal desires onto me.

Things arent going to go down as you fear so just wallow in your own fear.

What is there to explain? Pitt fan following continues to dwindle while WVU and PSU is strong. Of course you want those rivalries to be maintained but those rivalries died when they became one sided in regards to the followings of said teams.

You can live in the past while moaning and ranting or you can get over it because it is all out of your control. If you dont want to watch college football ever again then don't but get over yourself because it will only be a small minority of people that stop watching. You fail to understand the power of the herd mentality that most people are moved by.

The masses will still watch. Enjoy your fear.

You're funny. You tell us exactly what you want to see and what you expect the future to hold. I voice my concerns that the things you want will ruin the long term prospects of CFB, and you decide to distance yourself from your own views. LOL

Yeah...sure. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Those LOL's make my post mean so much more!!!

(03-28-2013 09:48 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well you aren't talking about MAC fans really. You're talking about OSU fans that went to a MAC school.

Yeah, it could quite easily not be about "MAC fans generally", but more about MAC fans of the Ohio schools from or living in areas where the Buckeyes are strongest ~ so its mostly about large numbers of Ohio, Kent State, Akron and Miami U fans. Toledo is more divided territory, so I wouldn't be surprised if the effect is not as strong for Toledo or Bowling Green fans (Bowling Green was my safety school, for the M/F ratio).

I'll cheer for the Redhawks in ice hockey, because we had hockey players in our dorms in the WCP, but the two times I was in the Horseshoe when my mom was a senior going to Ohio State and I saw Archie Griffin running the ball and Dwight Hudson tossing his drum major baton around was a lot more impressive than the zero times I went to watch the Red{somethings} play when I was at school in Oxford.

So in football and BBall in the MAC, I'm more likely to cheer for the Golden Flashes, which is the local team.