Seems we got worse due to Big East play this year - We are 2-2 against the 8 teams currently in the sweet 16.

Just wonder thoughts on Big East teams being used to different refereeing than we see in the tourney. All the BE teams that lost, lost by a larger to much larger foul shot differential than score differential - except ND.

GTown outshot 44-20
Cincy outshot 25-9
Pitt outshot 41-20
Villanova outshot 27-19

(03-24-2013 11:51 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  Seems we got worse due to Big East play this year - We are 2-2 against the 8 teams currently in the sweet 16.

Just wonder thoughts on Big East teams being used to different refereeing than we see in the tourney. All the BE teams that lost, lost by a larger to much larger foul shot differential than score differential - except ND.

GTown outshot 44-20
Cincy outshot 25-9
Pitt outshot 41-20
Villanova outshot 27-19

BTW, not saying this as an excuse, just wish the league games would be called similar to tournament games.

I thought Marquette did a great job adjusting to the soft officiating, and going to the paint a ton against Butler in the second half. But for teams as good defensively as Pitt and Georgetown to each give up over 40 free throws in a game is pretty remarkable.

One positive about realignment, we don't have to deal with it anymore.

Lots of talk from announcers about those in charge reviewing how defense is allowed to be played next season. Saying changes need to be made in terms of spacing and fouling.

Don't think it has had any impact at all. Same guys that officiate BE games are doing the NCAA tourney games.

(03-24-2013 12:02 PM)payday Wrote:  One positive about realignment, we don't have to deal with it anymore.

Yes we will. Officials are assigned by regions of the country. They are not employed by the conferences. We will still get the same referees doing our games no matter what conference we are in.

Well, the shape of this new conference, that should be about 30% of the time then.

Interesting Referee stats on our NCAA game

Darron George : has reffed in his career 11 Creighton games - that game was his first Big East game.

Tommy Nunez Jr : Looks to be his first D1 College game - former NBA ref recently fired.

Doug Simmons : Has never reffed UC before, and has done a collective 17 Big East games.

Our crew had done a combined 17 career games involving a Big East team before this game, and our regional area was Philadelphia.

Most Big East games have 37.5 fouls or about 19 / team, in Georgetown's loss they had 33 fouls against(only one official has done a Big East game). Pitt had 27 against (with officials who have never in their career done a Big East game).

(03-25-2013 11:13 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  Interesting Referee stats on our NCAA game

Darron George : has reffed in his career 11 Creighton games - that game was his first Big East game.

Tommy Nunez Jr : Looks to be his first D1 College game - former NBA ref recently fired.

Doug Simmons : Has never reffed UC before, and has done a collective 17 Big East games.

Our crew had done a combined 17 career games involving a Big East team before this game, and our regional area was Philadelphia.

Most Big East games have 37.5 fouls or about 19 / team, in Georgetown's loss they had 33 fouls against(only one official has done a Big East game). Pitt had 27 against (with officials who have never in their career done a Big East game).

Officiating matters. Its the one thing that I feel could hurt Louisville is a ref that calls the game very tight against them.

I actually looking forward to a different style of basketball, the Big East style of play is not the most fan pleasing type of basketball.

Offense always seems to win in the NCAA tournament. You need someone in the post that can score and few guards that can control the game.

(03-24-2013 08:48 PM)subflea Wrote:  Yes we will. Officials are assigned by regions of the country. They are not employed by the conferences. We will still get the same referees doing our games no matter what conference we are in.

You should just make it your signature, then you wouldn't have to explain it so often.

(03-24-2013 08:48 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 12:02 PM)payday Wrote:  One positive about realignment, we don't have to deal with it anymore.

Yes we will. Officials are assigned by regions of the country. They are not employed by the conferences. We will still get the same referees doing our games no matter what conference we are in.

If this is true, how does Jim Burr only work Big East, SEC, and Big Ten
Look at his schedule, that's more conference assigning than regional.

Here's Mike Roberts break down, he did
2012-2013 Big East 25
2012-2013 SEC 9
2012-2013 A-10 8
2012-2013 SWAC 1
2012-2013 Horizon 1

He did 6 UC, Louisville, and VCU games
5: Georgetown, Notre Dame, Kentucky, St John's, and Marquette

I've been watching alot of UC basketball in the past before the Big East and after, in the 70's, dark ages of UC basketball in the 80's, the Huggins years in the 90's and have been a season ticket holder since 2004. Everyone has their own background and experiences for which they understand the world and how it works. There is no doubt in my mind the officiating in the Big East has a certain eastern bias to it. I can remember a number of calls that occured for no reason, calls that were outside the box in the past nine years. One in particular was against UCONN in 2007 where we had the game won by one point and UConn was throwing the ball in after a basket. UC was awful having been at the bottom of the league and rebuilding. Rasheed Bishop was at the other end of the court with one UConn player (don't remember his name but one of their top stars). The Uconn player grabed Bishop by the shirt and pulled Bishop down on top of himself. Now everyone in the 5th 3rd arena was watching the two alone at the oppisite end of the court. Everyone saw what happeded. The refs had to see what happened, yet they called the foul on young Bishop. THe Uconn player promptly sank both free throws and we lost. The benefactors of such calls seem to be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova. Because of that, because of the inflated wins this year and in some cases in the past, wins that at times should not occur, the league looks bad because those calls enabling wins in the league do not take place in the NCAA Tourney. Just this year with lousy call after lousy call against Pitt at UC, one Big East ref went into the Pitt huddle after a timeout was called (after the lousy call) and Cronin was jumping all over the court protesting, only to laugh in the crowd of Pitt players and coaches. Now you tell me something is not rotten in Denmark??? There is no doubt that college officiating has a long way to go. Why does one team have to stand three feet from the sideline when defending an inbounds pass and the other does not?. Why are moving picks called at the most inoppertune time for one team and ignored against another? I have never seen so many moving picks without calls in my life, but at times UC is called at the worst time of the game for a moving pick when the opponent is NEVER called. Traveling is another call. Many times UC is called for taking steps when other obvious calls go unnoticed and traveling has occured with the other team yet is not called. Louisville is another team. If calls are made for their constant hand checking, they will lose. It makes them on par with everyone else. But if their hand checking is left to go in any direction, UL will win and win at each time. I have the distinct pleasure of attending a game which many on this board have no idea that occured and it will help those to understand that huge biases and misrepresentations do occur in the NCAA. It was UL's first appearence at UC since the Great Midwest and UL one year before it returned with UC to C-USA. Denny Crum was the coach at the time. Bob Huggins was noted as a coach of very physical teams and if the refs made calls on Huggins physical teams, UC almost always lost. During this game at home, UC lost. Huggins at the top of his coaching career was homered at home. My wife and I only went to one or two games a year at that time and did not have season tickets. But so many calls were made during that game, a reporter for the Cincinnati paper reported that the longest period of sustained playing time during the game without a foul called was 14 seconds. If you can imagine, think about it, 14 seconds of sustained play. So many calls were made and so many foul shots were attempted, it was unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that someone from UL in this case, got to those officals and told them how to call this game. That only lasted for one game and Huggins went onto clobber Crum five games in a row including a couple routs in Louisville eventually leading to coach Crum retiring. I will see if I can find something on that game.

(03-26-2013 04:40 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I've been watching alot of UC basketball in the past before the Big East and after, in the 70's, dark ages of UC basketball in the 80's, the Huggins years in the 90's and have been a season ticket holder since 2004. Everyone has their own background and experiences for which they understand the world and how it works. There is no doubt in my mind the officiating in the Big East has a certain eastern bias to it. I can remember a number of calls that occured for no reason, calls that were outside the box in the past nine years. One in particular was against UCONN in 2007 where we had the game won by one point and UConn was throwing the ball in after a basket. UC was awful having been at the bottom of the league and rebuilding. Rasheed Bishop was at the other end of the court with one UConn player (don't remember his name but one of their top stars). The Uconn player grabed Bishop by the shirt and pulled Bishop down on top of himself. Now everyone in the 5th 3rd arena was watching the two alone at the oppisite end of the court. Everyone saw what happeded. The refs had to see what happened, yet they called the foul on young Bishop. THe Uconn player promptly sank both free throws and we lost. The benefactors of such calls seem to be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova. Because of that, because of the inflated wins this year and in some cases in the past, wins that at times should not occur, the league looks bad because those calls enabling wins in the league do not take place in the NCAA Tourney. Just this year with lousy call after lousy call against Pitt at UC, one Big East ref went into the Pitt huddle after a timeout was called (after the lousy call) and Cronin was jumping all over the court protesting, only to laugh in the crowd of Pitt players and coaches. Now you tell me something is not rotten in Denmark??? There is no doubt that college officiating has a long way to go. Why does one team have to stand three feet from the sideline when defending an inbounds pass and the other does not?. Why are moving picks called at the most inoppertune time for one team and ignored against another? I have never seen so many moving picks without calls in my life, but at times UC is called at the worst time of the game for a moving pick when the opponent is NEVER called. Traveling is another call. Many times UC is called for taking steps when other obvious calls go unnoticed and traveling has occured with the other team yet is not called. Louisville is another team. If calls are made for their constant hand checking, they will lose. It makes them on par with everyone else. But if their hand checking is left to go in any direction, UL will win and win at each time. I have the distinct pleasure of attending a game which many on this board have no idea that occured and it will help those to understand that huge biases and misrepresentations do occur in the NCAA. It was UL's first appearence at UC since the Great Midwest and UL one year before it returned with UC to C-USA. Denny Crum was the coach at the time. Bob Huggins was noted as a coach of very physical teams and if the refs made calls on Huggins physical teams, UC almost always lost. During this game at home, UC lost. Huggins at the top of his coaching career was homered at home. My wife and I only went to one or two games a year at that time and did not have season tickets. But so many calls were made during that game, a reporter for the Cincinnati paper reported that the longest period of sustained playing time during the game without a foul called was 14 seconds. If you can imagine, think about it, 14 seconds of sustained play. So many calls were made and so many foul shots were attempted, it was unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that someone from UL in this case, got to those officals and told them how to call this game. That only lasted for one game and Huggins went onto clobber Crum five games in a row including a couple routs in Louisville eventually leading to coach Crum retiring. I will see if I can find something on that game.

On a trip to london I visited the british museum where I saw the rosetta stone. It was markedly easier to read than the above.

Regarding the content of the post, I highly doubt there is a grassy knoll
ref conspiracy. At most I will grant that hall of fame coaches get more
leeway than those who are not.

(03-26-2013 04:40 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I've been watching alot of UC basketball in the past before the Big East and after, in the 70's, dark ages of UC basketball in the 80's, the Huggins years in the 90's and have been a season ticket holder since 2004. Everyone has their own background and experiences for which they understand the world and how it works. There is no doubt in my mind the officiating in the Big East has a certain eastern bias to it. I can remember a number of calls that occured for no reason, calls that were outside the box in the past nine years. One in particular was against UCONN in 2007 where we had the game won by one point and UConn was throwing the ball in after a basket. UC was awful having been at the bottom of the league and rebuilding. Rasheed Bishop was at the other end of the court with one UConn player (don't remember his name but one of their top stars). The Uconn player grabed Bishop by the shirt and pulled Bishop down on top of himself. Now everyone in the 5th 3rd arena was watching the two alone at the oppisite end of the court. Everyone saw what happeded. The refs had to see what happened, yet they called the foul on young Bishop. THe Uconn player promptly sank both free throws and we lost. The benefactors of such calls seem to be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova. Because of that, because of the inflated wins this year and in some cases in the past, wins that at times should not occur, the league looks bad because those calls enabling wins in the league do not take place in the NCAA Tourney. Just this year with lousy call after lousy call against Pitt at UC, one Big East ref went into the Pitt huddle after a timeout was called (after the lousy call) and Cronin was jumping all over the court protesting, only to laugh in the crowd of Pitt players and coaches. Now you tell me something is not rotten in Denmark??? There is no doubt that college officiating has a long way to go. Why does one team have to stand three feet from the sideline when defending an inbounds pass and the other does not?. Why are moving picks called at the most inoppertune time for one team and ignored against another? I have never seen so many moving picks without calls in my life, but at times UC is called at the worst time of the game for a moving pick when the opponent is NEVER called. Traveling is another call. Many times UC is called for taking steps when other obvious calls go unnoticed and traveling has occured with the other team yet is not called. Louisville is another team. If calls are made for their constant hand checking, they will lose. It makes them on par with everyone else. But if their hand checking is left to go in any direction, UL will win and win at each time. I have the distinct pleasure of attending a game which many on this board have no idea that occured and it will help those to understand that huge biases and misrepresentations do occur in the NCAA. It was UL's first appearence at UC since the Great Midwest and UL one year before it returned with UC to C-USA. Denny Crum was the coach at the time. Bob Huggins was noted as a coach of very physical teams and if the refs made calls on Huggins physical teams, UC almost always lost. During this game at home, UC lost. Huggins at the top of his coaching career was homered at home. My wife and I only went to one or two games a year at that time and did not have season tickets. But so many calls were made during that game, a reporter for the Cincinnati paper reported that the longest period of sustained playing time during the game without a foul called was 14 seconds. If you can imagine, think about it, 14 seconds of sustained play. So many calls were made and so many foul shots were attempted, it was unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that someone from UL in this case, got to those officals and told them how to call this game. That only lasted for one game and Huggins went onto clobber Crum five games in a row including a couple routs in Louisville eventually leading to coach Crum retiring. I will see if I can find something on that game.

(03-24-2013 08:48 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 12:02 PM)payday Wrote:  One positive about realignment, we don't have to deal with it anymore.

Yes we will. Officials are assigned by regions of the country. They are not employed by the conferences. We will still get the same referees doing our games no matter what conference we are in.

Cincinnati should try to get the same referees for home games that NOTRE DAME does. Almost be guaranteed a home victory with those. It works for ND.

NOW that UC won't be in the Big East, Mick will start recruiting young men with basketball skills instead of just being athletic and long. Athletic and long doesn't get a team too far when the other team can shoot alot better.

(03-26-2013 04:40 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I've been watching alot of UC basketball in the past before the Big East and after, in the 70's, dark ages of UC basketball in the 80's, the Huggins years in the 90's and have been a season ticket holder since 2004. Everyone has their own background and experiences for which they understand the world and how it works. There is no doubt in my mind the officiating in the Big East has a certain eastern bias to it. I can remember a number of calls that occured for no reason, calls that were outside the box in the past nine years. One in particular was against UCONN in 2007 where we had the game won by one point and UConn was throwing the ball in after a basket. UC was awful having been at the bottom of the league and rebuilding. Rasheed Bishop was at the other end of the court with one UConn player (don't remember his name but one of their top stars). The Uconn player grabed Bishop by the shirt and pulled Bishop down on top of himself. Now everyone in the 5th 3rd arena was watching the two alone at the oppisite end of the court. Everyone saw what happeded. The refs had to see what happened, yet they called the foul on young Bishop. THe Uconn player promptly sank both free throws and we lost. The benefactors of such calls seem to be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova. Because of that, because of the inflated wins this year and in some cases in the past, wins that at times should not occur, the league looks bad because those calls enabling wins in the league do not take place in the NCAA Tourney. Just this year with lousy call after lousy call against Pitt at UC, one Big East ref went into the Pitt huddle after a timeout was called (after the lousy call) and Cronin was jumping all over the court protesting, only to laugh in the crowd of Pitt players and coaches. Now you tell me something is not rotten in Denmark??? There is no doubt that college officiating has a long way to go. Why does one team have to stand three feet from the sideline when defending an inbounds pass and the other does not?. Why are moving picks called at the most inoppertune time for one team and ignored against another? I have never seen so many moving picks without calls in my life, but at times UC is called at the worst time of the game for a moving pick when the opponent is NEVER called. Traveling is another call. Many times UC is called for taking steps when other obvious calls go unnoticed and traveling has occured with the other team yet is not called. Louisville is another team. If calls are made for their constant hand checking, they will lose. It makes them on par with everyone else. But if their hand checking is left to go in any direction, UL will win and win at each time. I have the distinct pleasure of attending a game which many on this board have no idea that occured and it will help those to understand that huge biases and misrepresentations do occur in the NCAA. It was UL's first appearence at UC since the Great Midwest and UL one year before it returned with UC to C-USA. Denny Crum was the coach at the time. Bob Huggins was noted as a coach of very physical teams and if the refs made calls on Huggins physical teams, UC almost always lost. During this game at home, UC lost. Huggins at the top of his coaching career was homered at home. My wife and I only went to one or two games a year at that time and did not have season tickets. But so many calls were made during that game, a reporter for the Cincinnati paper reported that the longest period of sustained playing time during the game without a foul called was 14 seconds. If you can imagine, think about it, 14 seconds of sustained play. So many calls were made and so many foul shots were attempted, it was unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that someone from UL in this case, got to those officals and told them how to call this game. That only lasted for one game and Huggins went onto clobber Crum five games in a row including a couple routs in Louisville eventually leading to coach Crum retiring. I will see if I can find something on that game.

I would read that, but I value my vision too much.

I read it. It's not that difficult.

What I saw at MSG a few weeks ago through the whistle of ref Mike Stephens is enough to validate everything posted above. Those kind of calls ought to be illegal.

(03-26-2013 04:40 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I've been watching alot of UC basketball in the past before the Big East and after, in the 70's, dark ages of UC basketball in the 80's, the Huggins years in the 90's and have been a season ticket holder since 2004. Everyone has their own background and experiences for which they understand the world and how it works. There is no doubt in my mind the officiating in the Big East has a certain eastern bias to it. I can remember a number of calls that occured for no reason, calls that were outside the box in the past nine years. One in particular was against UCONN in 2007 where we had the game won by one point and UConn was throwing the ball in after a basket. UC was awful having been at the bottom of the league and rebuilding. Rasheed Bishop was at the other end of the court with one UConn player (don't remember his name but one of their top stars). The Uconn player grabed Bishop by the shirt and pulled Bishop down on top of himself. Now everyone in the 5th 3rd arena was watching the two alone at the oppisite end of the court. Everyone saw what happeded. The refs had to see what happened, yet they called the foul on young Bishop. THe Uconn player promptly sank both free throws and we lost. The benefactors of such calls seem to be UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, St. Johns and Villanova. Because of that, because of the inflated wins this year and in some cases in the past, wins that at times should not occur, the league looks bad because those calls enabling wins in the league do not take place in the NCAA Tourney. Just this year with lousy call after lousy call against Pitt at UC, one Big East ref went into the Pitt huddle after a timeout was called (after the lousy call) and Cronin was jumping all over the court protesting, only to laugh in the crowd of Pitt players and coaches. Now you tell me something is not rotten in Denmark??? There is no doubt that college officiating has a long way to go. Why does one team have to stand three feet from the sideline when defending an inbounds pass and the other does not?. Why are moving picks called at the most inoppertune time for one team and ignored against another? I have never seen so many moving picks without calls in my life, but at times UC is called at the worst time of the game for a moving pick when the opponent is NEVER called. Traveling is another call. Many times UC is called for taking steps when other obvious calls go unnoticed and traveling has occured with the other team yet is not called. Louisville is another team. If calls are made for their constant hand checking, they will lose. It makes them on par with everyone else. But if their hand checking is left to go in any direction, UL will win and win at each time. I have the distinct pleasure of attending a game which many on this board have no idea that occured and it will help those to understand that huge biases and misrepresentations do occur in the NCAA. It was UL's first appearence at UC since the Great Midwest and UL one year before it returned with UC to C-USA. Denny Crum was the coach at the time. Bob Huggins was noted as a coach of very physical teams and if the refs made calls on Huggins physical teams, UC almost always lost. During this game at home, UC lost. Huggins at the top of his coaching career was homered at home. My wife and I only went to one or two games a year at that time and did not have season tickets. But so many calls were made during that game, a reporter for the Cincinnati paper reported that the longest period of sustained playing time during the game without a foul called was 14 seconds. If you can imagine, think about it, 14 seconds of sustained play. So many calls were made and so many foul shots were attempted, it was unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that someone from UL in this case, got to those officals and told them how to call this game. That only lasted for one game and Huggins went onto clobber Crum five games in a row including a couple routs in Louisville eventually leading to coach Crum retiring. I will see if I can find something on that game.

I'm not reading that $hit.