(03-20-2013 05:58 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:59 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:54 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Of the 16 teams from the BE, 7 remain. Most of the traditional powers from the BE are gone to greener pastures. XU, Creighton and Butler are nice additions but don't come anywhere near making up for the loss of UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, WVU.

Keep the name, keep the records, the new BE is still a shell of the old one.

Like we told you, we were here before you got here, we'll be here after you're gone. And now you're gone.

Don't like the message, shoot the messenger.
Nothing written was untrue. The NBE is a shell of the BE.
4-5 tourney berths likely versus 8-9 in the past.

Its better. It got rid of the schools who never had good years in basketball. And I imagine its pretty tough to recruit if your are the 13th place team in the league. Creighton and Xavier are the only ones who haven't been to the final 4.

Keep telling yourself it's better. No one believes the NBE is better than the old one. It'll be a good conference but not great like the BE. The new additions (XU, Creighton, Butler) do not exceed nor even equal the gravitas that left or is leaving (UofL, CUSE, Pitt, WVU, UConn, UC).

Those 7 schools that are no longer part of the BE equal 8 national championships and 21 Final Fours in men's basketball only. The additions XU, Creighton, Butler have 1 Final Four between the three of them.

Butler made 2 title games in a row. How many final 4s do Rutgers and USF have between them? How many NCAA tournaments period? What did Pitt do before the last 10 years?

Its addition by subtraction. What has Cincinnati done in the BE? There were too many good "programs" which weakened the individual "teams." St. John's & DePaul are likely to come back. Providence and Seton Hall will be competitive again.

(03-20-2013 03:59 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:54 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:50 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2003477

Per USA Today's Nicole Auerbach.

"As part of our separation agreement, we negotiated that the basketball records will remain the property of the basketball schools," Providence president Fr. Brian Shanley said on a teleconference Wednesday.

Just so everyone knows that we are in fact the big east and not some new league.

Of the 16 teams from the BE, 7 remain. Most of the traditional powers from the BE are gone to greener pastures. XU, Creighton and Butler are nice additions but don't come anywhere near making up for the loss of UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, WVU.

Keep the name, keep the records, the new BE is still a shell of the old one.

Like we told you, we were here before you got here, we'll be here after you're gone. And now you're gone.

Don't like the message, shoot the messenger.
Nothing written was untrue. The NBE is a shell of the BE.
4-5 tourney berths likely versus 8-9 in the past.

8 tourney berths with a 16 team League . . . 5 tourney berths with a 10 team league. . . Seems about the same to me.

(03-20-2013 05:58 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:59 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:54 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Of the 16 teams from the BE, 7 remain. Most of the traditional powers from the BE are gone to greener pastures. XU, Creighton and Butler are nice additions but don't come anywhere near making up for the loss of UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, WVU.

Keep the name, keep the records, the new BE is still a shell of the old one.

Like we told you, we were here before you got here, we'll be here after you're gone. And now you're gone.

Don't like the message, shoot the messenger.
Nothing written was untrue. The NBE is a shell of the BE.
4-5 tourney berths likely versus 8-9 in the past.

Its better. It got rid of the schools who never had good years in basketball. And I imagine its pretty tough to recruit if your are the 13th place team in the league. Creighton and Xavier are the only ones who haven't been to the final 4.

Keep telling yourself it's better. No one believes the NBE is better than the old one. It'll be a good conference but not great like the BE. The new additions (XU, Creighton, Butler) do not exceed nor even equal the gravitas that left or is leaving (UofL, CUSE, Pitt, WVU, UConn, UC).

Those 7 schools that are no longer part of the BE equal 8 national championships and 21 Final Fours in men's basketball only. The additions XU, Creighton, Butler have 1 Final Four between the three of them.

Actually some do believe that the updated version of the Big East is better than the old one, but it really doesn't matter either way. It's all speculation. The Big East of 2013-14 and beyond will be judged by what it's members actually accomplish, not by all the small talk.

I love how you refer to Louisville & Cincinnati as 2 of the Big East's traditional powers and refer to NCs & Final 4s from the days when they weren't even part of the league.

Pitt won 2 Big East titles in 31 years in the league - same number as Seton Hall - and then choked in the NCAA every year. Their basketball history in the BE was pretty much undistinguished. West Virginia won one Big East title, same as Providence. Again, nothing special about their stay in the BE. They had their moments, loved the Pittsnogle team. Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

UConn &Syracuse will be missed by the C7.

Three new members are not going to replace the accomplishments of 9 other members who are now gone. Not possible. but you're wrong about one Final 4 among them. Butler has 2 and the important thing is that those 2 were both in the past 3 years. Xavier has been to 2 Elite 8's in the past 9 years. That's more than Syracuse in the same years. Creighton has been to 7 tournaments in the past 13 years. These programs all hot right now, which is where the Big East was back in 1979. Like the BE members back then, their future is in front of them.

But accomplishments aside, the new Big East got what it wanted with these 3: security. As much as the football schools have complained about the hybrid, the C7 grew to hate it too. The instability and failure to hold together was just as bad for them. They're now happy to be rid of all that even if it means losing some big names.

(03-20-2013 07:38 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  [quote='Tallgrass' pid='9124705' dateline='1363820728']

The C-7 have been living off of UConn and Syracuse for a generation. It will be interesting to see if they'll succeed on their own. They might, or they might not.

I know the football schools should get 4-6 NCAA bids per year with UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincinnati, and one or two other programs that will step up. That would be a better percentage of teams than the ACC.

Just like UConn lived off the C7 for a generation. Villanova & Georgetown have both been to a Final Four more recently than Syracuse, so please . . .

You named 4 basketball schools , yet claimed as many as 6 bids per year. Where are you getting the other 2? All the football schools combined have only 26 bids in the past 10 years, an average of 2-3 per year. But they're going to double that in the next 10 years???

(03-20-2013 08:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  Butler made 2 title games in a row. How many final 4s do Rutgers and USF have between them? How many NCAA tournaments period? What did Pitt do before the last 10 years?

No need to slam on Pitt or Rutgers, whose fans have largely been wishing these guys well. And since I'm pretty sure you meant to say 0 Final Fours between Rutgers and USF, the answer is actually 1. Rutgers was 32-0 leading into the 1976 Final Four. They then lost in the semifinal to Michigan and then again in the consolation game to Indiana. In the mid to late 70s Rutgers appeared to be on the verge of becoming a basketball power school. Instead of joining the Big East from the start when offered we decided to stick with Penn State instead. Seton Hall got the nod and we proceeded to slowly go down the tubes to where we are today. The 80s and early 90s weren't too bad as we made the tourney several times and usually the NIT when we didn't. After that the bottom fell out.

(03-20-2013 09:35 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 08:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  Butler made 2 title games in a row. How many final 4s do Rutgers and USF have between them? How many NCAA tournaments period? What did Pitt do before the last 10 years?

No need to slam on Pitt or Rutgers, whose fans have largely been wishing these guys well. And since I'm pretty sure you meant to say 0 Final Fours between Rutgers and USF, the answer is actually 1. Rutgers was 32-0 leading into the 1976 Final Four. They then lost in the semifinal to Michigan and then again in the consolation game to Indiana. In the mid to late 70s Rutgers appeared to be on the verge of becoming a basketball power school. Instead of joining the Big East from the start when offered we decided to stick with Penn State instead. Seton Hall got the nod and we proceeded to slowly go down the tubes to where we are today. The 80s and early 90s weren't too bad as we made the tourney several times and usually the NIT when we didn't. After that the bottom fell out.

My homeroom teacher in HS was on that Rutgers Final Four team.

Pitt is the winningest program in Big East play over the past decade and like the fourth winningest program nationally in that time, behind Duke, Kansas and Gonzaga and having competed in a tougher league than all three of those schools. Jamie Dixon has been at Pitt for nine years and has the highest winning percentage of any coach in Big East history. And we're the least of the losses sustained by the Big East.

To assert that the Big East - or any league - could lose MEGA POWERS like UConn, Syracuse and Louisville and outstanding programs like Notre Dame and Pitt and somehow come out better off is...umm...a curious claim to say the least. It's like that Monty Python sketch where the one maimed knight keeps declaring each successive gash as "merely a flesh wound."

Look, I LOVE the Big East and wish for its continued prosperity but at some point hubris must take a backseat to reality.

The new BE probably isn't as good as what the BE once was. However it certainly IMO is better than what the BE was going to be had there not been a split

(03-20-2013 09:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  To assert that the Big East - or any league - could lose MEGA POWERS like UConn, Syracuse and Louisville and outstanding programs like Notre Dame and Pitt and somehow come out better off is...umm...a curious claim to say the least. It's like that Monty Python sketch where the one maimed knight keeps declaring each successive gash as "merely a flesh wound."

Thank you. Exactly my point.

(03-20-2013 10:08 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 09:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  To assert that the Big East - or any league - could lose MEGA POWERS like UConn, Syracuse and Louisville and outstanding programs like Notre Dame and Pitt and somehow come out better off is...umm...a curious claim to say the least. It's like that Monty Python sketch where the one maimed knight keeps declaring each successive gash as "merely a flesh wound."

Thank you. Exactly my point.

"Don't like the message, shoot the messenger.
Nothing written was untrue. The NBE is a shell of the BE.
4-5 tourney berths likely versus 8-9 in the past."

That is not even close to what the good Dr. said.

Once again, I hate to harp on it but your math is really off here.

What is important for the A-12/Metro is that they take the football records with them.

Keeping the basketball records hardly makes them the same conference, it sounds as though the other records will stay with the football schools. Plus the article calls it a NEW conference and says they'll be setting up the new conferences offices in NYC. So, unless they're keeping the constitution and bylaws, the actual business entity, then it is INDEED a new conference - no matter how they try to spin it -- they traded a lot of money for a tarnished name and the rights to try and reclaim a history LONG GONE now...

(03-20-2013 11:08 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Keeping the records hardly makes them the same conference, unless they're keeping the constitution and bylaws, the actual business entity, then it is INDEED a new conference.

UNC fan? What does it matter to you? Why do you care anyway? 5 of the first 8 Big East schools (62.5%) are part of this same conference. Along with SU, each of these 5 played a leading role in building the conference, as each made a Final Four within the first 10 years of the Big East. I mean, you ACC guys with sugar daddy ESPN have already taken MSG from us, and now you want to deny us our history?

(03-20-2013 03:54 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:50 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2003477

Per USA Today's Nicole Auerbach.

"As part of our separation agreement, we negotiated that the basketball records will remain the property of the basketball schools," Providence president Fr. Brian Shanley said on a teleconference Wednesday.

Just so everyone knows that we are in fact the big east and not some new league.

Of the 16 teams from the BE, 7 remain. Most of the traditional powers from the BE are gone to greener pastures. XU, Creighton and Butler are nice additions but don't come anywhere near making up for the loss of UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, WVU.

Keep the name, keep the records, the new BE is still a shell of the old one.

Add Dayton & St Louis and the new BE is a great hoops league.

(03-20-2013 05:58 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:59 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:54 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Of the 16 teams from the BE, 7 remain. Most of the traditional powers from the BE are gone to greener pastures. XU, Creighton and Butler are nice additions but don't come anywhere near making up for the loss of UConn, UofL, Pitt, Cuse, WVU.

Keep the name, keep the records, the new BE is still a shell of the old one.

Like we told you, we were here before you got here, we'll be here after you're gone. And now you're gone.

Don't like the message, shoot the messenger.
Nothing written was untrue. The NBE is a shell of the BE.
4-5 tourney berths likely versus 8-9 in the past.

Its better. It got rid of the schools who never had good years in basketball. And I imagine its pretty tough to recruit if your are the 13th place team in the league. Creighton and Xavier are the only ones who haven't been to the final 4.

Keep telling yourself it's better. No one believes the NBE is better than the old one. It'll be a good conference but not great like the BE. The new additions (XU, Creighton, Butler) do not exceed nor even equal the gravitas that left or is leaving (UofL, CUSE, Pitt, WVU, UConn, UC).

Those 7 schools that are no longer part of the BE equal 8 national championships and 21 Final Fours in men's basketball only. The additions XU, Creighton, Butler have 1 Final Four between the three of them.

Butler played in the 10 & 11 National Championship games, how did you get 1 final 4 out of those 3?

(03-20-2013 11:35 PM)billyjack Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 11:08 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Keeping the records hardly makes them the same conference, unless they're keeping the constitution and bylaws, the actual business entity, then it is INDEED a new conference.

UNC fan? What does it matter to you? Why do you care anyway? 5 of the first 8 Big East schools (62.5%) are part of this same conference. Along with SU, each of these 5 played a leading role in building the conference, as each made a Final Four within the first 10 years of the Big East. I mean, you ACC guys with sugar daddy ESPN have already taken MSG from us, and now you want to deny us our history?

Obviously you don't know how CSNBBS profiles work... if you had taken the time to click my screen name, you'd see I grew up in the shadow of 'Cuse... where I was a Orangeman (yes they were that then) season ticketholder with my family, and moved to NYC and went to 11 straight Big East tourneys... before returning to school for a second degree at UNC and now grad work in Charlotte. I'm very much an old Big East fan... but thanks for jumping to conclusions and for your concern in it!

(03-20-2013 11:08 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Keeping the basketball records hardly makes them the same conference, it sounds as though the other records will stay with the football schools. Plus the article calls it a NEW conference and says they'll be setting up the new conferences offices in NYC. So, unless they're keeping the constitution and bylaws, the actual business entity, then it is INDEED a new conference - no matter how they try to spin it -- they traded a lot of money for a tarnished name and the rights to try and reclaim a history LONG GONE now...

So the same teams, with the same name, with the same history playing in the same place is a new league? Gotta love that UNC education. African Studies major?

(03-20-2013 09:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Pitt is the winningest program in Big East play over the past decade and like the fourth winningest program nationally in that time, behind Duke, Kansas and Gonzaga and having competed in a tougher league than all three of those schools. Jamie Dixon has been at Pitt for nine years and has the highest winning percentage of any coach in Big East history. And we're the least of the losses sustained by the Big East.

To assert that the Big East - or any league - could lose MEGA POWERS like UConn, Syracuse and Louisville and outstanding programs like Notre Dame and Pitt and somehow come out better off is...umm...a curious claim to say the least. It's like that Monty Python sketch where the one maimed knight keeps declaring each successive gash as "merely a flesh wound."

Look, I LOVE the Big East and wish for its continued prosperity but at some point hubris must take a backseat to reality.

If Pitt had ever been able to win a post season game, that might mean something...

The idea that anyone other than the C7 should keep the records going forward is ludicrous.

The Big East fragmented and the pieces have been scattered to the winds in all directions - 3 to the A12/New Metro, 4 to the ACC, 1 to the Big XII, and 1 to the Big Ten. The only stable group moving forward is the 7 members who will retain the name of The Big East. It's fitting that they not only move forward with the name but that they also move forward with the legacy and are custodians of it.

Frankly the biggest group of all-sports/football schools is now in the ACC - 6 in total + Notre Dame. So, anyone who objects to the C7 being custodian of the records should be lobbying for the ACC to inherit the records. That would make a lot of sense, right? About as much sense as a league of Navy, East Carolina, Central florida, Tulane, Memphis, SMU, & Houston inheriting the records of The Big East.

(03-20-2013 11:08 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Keeping the basketball records hardly makes them the same conference, it sounds as though the other records will stay with the football schools. Plus the article calls it a NEW conference and says they'll be setting up the new conferences offices in NYC. So, unless they're keeping the constitution and bylaws, the actual business entity, then it is INDEED a new conference - no matter how they try to spin it -- they traded a lot of money for a tarnished name and the rights to try and reclaim a history LONG GONE now...

The phrase that they used at yesterday's press conference was the "reconstituted" Big East. That's fair. Obviously there are several familiar faces missing, and legally it's a new entity, but the new Big East has 3 out of 4 founding members, 4 out of 7 charter members (5 of 8 if you count Villanova), 7 of this year's 15 members, the name, the contract with MSG, and now the record book - that's a pretty strong case for continuity from the old Big East.

Since the additions of Louisville and Marquette, the BE has been far and away the best conference in college basketball. The loss of SU, UL, Uconn, etc., will almost certainly knock them from this position. However, with the strength of the replacements, the new Big East figures to be a top 5 conference. That is a level of quality that justifies the continued use of the Big East name without having to make apologies to anyone.