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Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 03:48 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Right, a couple of games at MSG will be good. But from now on...

These are your possible future NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at Boston College (train or 3.5 hour car).
2. random game at MSG (either vs St John's or pre-season NIT, etc).

These used to be your possible former NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at St John's (local).
2. at Providence (train).
3. at UConn (2 hr car).
4. at Seton Hall (local).
5. at Rutgers (local).
6. at Villanova (train).
7. at Georgetown (train).
8. random game at MSG (NIT, etc).

Plus, you'll be trying to set up away games with teams that aren't going to want to provide you with exposure in their city. Plus your loyal NYC alums will be screwed. Plus NYC to Syracuse is at least a 4 hour drive, right? 1.5 to Albany depending on traffic, another 2.5 to Syracuse from there.

1. Syracuse can and plans on playing OOC games in NYC. The problem with your analysis is that you are ignoring OOC games, which simply isn't accurate.
2. Why would a team decline to play in NYC and opt to play in Syracuse instead? The games in Syracuse are harder for opposing teams, and there is less publicity for them.
3. Conference games are essentially home and home games that are played every year. Playing an OOC home and home isn't somehow magically worse.
4. I think that you're getting loose with some of those games being NYC games. I don't think that a game vs. GU/Nova/UCONN in the middle of the week is more accessible than SDSU/BSU/Tokyo State University for most people.
03-18-2013 04:00 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 03:58 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.
Apples to oranges (pun not intended). The Carrier Dome is on campus, and is owned and operated by Syracuse University. MSG is owned and operated by MSG, and St. John's only plays there for certain conference games.

Doesn't matter, it's our home court. You want to rent it out and play Manhattan? Fine, but if you're playing us in MSG you are the visiting team. You are NOT the home team.
03-18-2013 04:08 PM
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Murray007 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
Public perspective: http://t.co/JsskMT6gcW

Not sure how accurate it is but looks like a decent sample to me.

It was tweeted by "Fake SportsCenter" so don't sue me if it's just completely made up.
03-18-2013 05:49 PM
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WNCOrange Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 04:08 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 03:58 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.
Apples to oranges (pun not intended). The Carrier Dome is on campus, and is owned and operated by Syracuse University. MSG is owned and operated by MSG, and St. John's only plays there for certain conference games.

Doesn't matter, it's our home court. You want to rent it out and play Manhattan? Fine, but if you're playing us in MSG you are the visiting team. You are NOT the home team.

You should tell that to your fans who cannot be bothered to show up.
03-18-2013 06:12 PM
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Poliicious Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-17-2013 10:19 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  A rather amusing thing you read around here, is how fans from teams changing conferences, somehow feel the new conference gets credit for accomplishments achieved while still in their old conference. Of course this is nonsense. The truth of the matter is, the ACC website claims no credit for any accomplishments of Syracuse or Louisville, or anyone else, but still claims credit for whatever Maryland achieves, even though they will leave soon. The same is true of the Big East. The reality is, the rosters of these future ACC teams were recruited to play against Big East schools, against Big East players, in Big East cities, in Big East arenas, and in Big East markets. Their achievements are the Big East's. Its also interesting that the coaches of the four future ACC members Jim Boeheim, Rick Pitino, Jamie Dixon, and Mike Brey, while being good soldiers, have made no secret of the fact they wish the Big East had remained as it was, and they continued coaching in what has been the greatest basketball conference in NCAA history. None showed any enthusiasm for joining the ACC. Whether those four basketball teams remain elite, or fade into total irrelevance, as happened to Boston College, remains to be seen. Time will tell, although any drop is not likely to be as steep as what befell BC.

Which brings me to my next point. Many ACC apologists are delusional about the ACC's stature, when it has clearly been masked by two superpowers among a league of midgets, although one of them occasionally pokes their head above quicksand as Miami did this year. Over the past three years the Big East has had a total of 28 bids to the tournament, while the ACC has had 13, barely nosing out the Atlantic 10 which had 12. The last year the ACC matched the Big East in bids was 2009 when they both had 7, however the Big East nearly doubled the ACC's win total that year, 17 to 9. The recent history is pretty clear who the vastly superior league is, and my guess is it will be borne out again this upcoming tournament.

And finally, I'm sure there will be outraged response from the ACC newbies, claiming that once they're on board all that will change. Maybe it will. But the only thing we can judge for certain is what's happened in the past, no one knows the future. I know I wouldn't be surprised that if after the B1G finishes scavenging through the ACC these next couple of years, that what's left of the ACC has little resemblence to what's expected today. In any case, whatever it's form, I highly doubt the ACC will ever come close to replicating the success of the Big East.

The A12 is a very solid hoops conference with UConn(last BE team to win national championship) Cincy (made the elite 8 last year) Memphis(ruled the roost in CUSA) & Temple(3 straight A10 titles(08-10 and 9 total, most in A10 history). Inviting VCU would be wise given that they made it to the A10 title game their first year in the conference along with 5 CAA championships and 8 CAA finals appearances. VCU also gives the A12 presence in VA. Better than any conference outside of the Big 10, ACC and possibly the C7; A12 and MWC are close as the MWC has improved greatly the last 5 years overtaking the 12 PAC
03-18-2013 09:20 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2013 12:48 AM by TexanMark.)
03-18-2013 11:13 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 07:43 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  250 miles?

That's a short 3 hour drive son!

Nothing to complain about at all!

Now if you want REAL travel burden, try being a UTEP fan who lives in SA like my Aunt

It may be a 3 hour drive in Texas, but not in NY. Heck, the first 10 miles takes an hour just to get out of the city. Then you still have a 4 hour drive in front of you.

Then there are the fans who don't oive in the city, but an hour east on Long Island. They first have to get into the city, then out of it, then have another 4 hours to go.

3 hours in Texas = shours in NY. NOT. 03-lmfao
03-19-2013 07:42 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 07:44 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 07:15 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-17-2013 10:19 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  A rather amusing thing you read around here, is how fans from teams changing conferences, somehow feel the new conference gets credit for accomplishments achieved while still in their old conference. Of course this is nonsense. The truth of the matter is, the ACC website claims no credit for any accomplishments of Syracuse or Louisville, or anyone else, but still claims credit for whatever Maryland achieves, even though they will leave soon. The same is true of the Big East. The reality is, the rosters of these future ACC teams were recruited to play against Big East schools, against Big East players, in Big East cities, in Big East arenas, and in Big East markets. Their achievements are the Big East's. Its also interesting that the coaches of the four future ACC members Jim Boeheim, Rick Pitino, Jamie Dixon, and Mike Brey, while being good soldiers, have made no secret of the fact they wish the Big East had remained as it was, and they continued coaching in what has been the greatest basketball conference in NCAA history. None showed any enthusiasm for joining the ACC. Whether those four basketball teams remain elite, or fade into total irrelevance, as happened to Boston College, remains to be seen. Time will tell, although any drop is not likely to be as steep as what befell BC.

Which brings me to my next point. Many ACC apologists are delusional about the ACC's stature, when it has clearly been masked by two superpowers among a league of midgets, although one of them occasionally pokes their head above quicksand as Miami did this year. Over the past three years the Big East has had a total of 28 bids to the tournament, while the ACC has had 13, barely nosing out the Atlantic 10 which had 12. The last year the ACC matched the Big East in bids was 2009 when they both had 7, however the Big East nearly doubled the ACC's win total that year, 17 to 9. The recent history is pretty clear who the vastly superior league is, and my guess is it will be borne out again this upcoming tournament.

And finally, I'm sure there will be outraged response from the ACC newbies, claiming that once they're on board all that will change. Maybe it will. But the only thing we can judge for certain is what's happened in the past, no one knows the future. I know I wouldn't be surprised that if after the B1G finishes scavenging through the ACC these next couple of years, that what's left of the ACC has little resemblence to what's expected today. In any case, whatever it's form, I highly doubt the ACC will ever come close to replicating the success of the Big East.

Something which is very clear is that a school like Syracuse, that sits 250 miles away form New York City where most of its alums are and where most of its students hale from, is limiting the access of that alumni and fan base to its games by this move to the ACC. This is exactly what happened to Boston College.

I'm not saying that this conference move is a bad idea or that anyone else wouldn't have done it in a New York minute. It's good for business reasons. In fact, it's a great move on the business side of the ledger.

But one fact is incontrovertible. This is a terrible move for the fan base. And that's what we are: fans. NY based Syracuse now have the option of driving 250 miles to Syracuse, 200 miles to a road game in Boston, or 350 miles to a choice of Pittsburgh or Chalottesville. Take your pick.

As difficult as this is for a Saturday football game, it ain't happenin' for a weekday night game in either sport. And how about a 500+ mile trip to North Carolina for the ACC tournament? That should be gangs of fun.

The issue here isn't whether Syracuse or anyone else should have made. the move. The point is that realignment sux. It's bad for the fan base and in the long run that can't be good for college athletics. And I think that's the point of your post.

I would respectfully disagree. There are so many ex-New Yorkers living in in the south now. With the Carolina's in particular being home to many of them. At least from a hoops standpoint our fans have shown the ability to show in mass at games anywhere from NYC to Georgia. Ask State fans what they thought about our fans showing up to their arena last year.

Now I will admit that in football it remains to be seen how we will travel in the ACC but from a hoops standpoint it really isn't even an argument.

That's great for team support and for the fans who live in the South, but it doesn't do a thing for the fans in the tri-state area, which is where the bulk of the fan base is.

I was in The City recently and saw a taxi with a sign afixed to its roof, advertising "Syracuse, New York's home town team". Try continuing that marketing campaign when the team never sets foot in the city or even anywhere in the try-state area. It's the fast track to irrelevance.
03-19-2013 07:46 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

That would be a good plan.

The only problem I see is trying to have your cake and eat it too. I see no reason why St. John's as the home town team would split the gate. They will have no problem bringing other high profile teams into the Garden. They don't need Syracuse, but with its disconnect from the City, Syracuse will badly need them.
03-19-2013 07:49 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 03:31 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 03:14 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Syracuse has a lot on NYC/ NE Corridor alums that could get to a bunch of away basketball games each year. That's why playing undesirables Providence, Rutgers and Seton Hall was a good thing. Then throw in actual desirables St John's, Villanova, UConn and Georgetown, all a short train ride or car trip away. Based on your home-and-homes, that could be at least 4 or 5 road games that NYC Orangemen alumni could easily get to nearby. Maybe they plan on a weekend in Tampa in January to play USF, so realistically 1 flight a year for a NYC alum.

Now, in the ACC, as Melky was saying, what does a Syracuse NYC alum do? Ok, a date with St John's every other year... and... maybe but probably not Villanova... Georgetown from what I had heard has no interest... the closest conference mate near NYC will be BC... Pitt takes forever to drive to... Charlottesville requires a car (compared to the train/flight to Georgetown)... So BC and maybe Virginia are the only to ACC road games that northeast alums can easily get to.

How many Syracuse alumni are really in North Carolina compared to NYC/Phila/DC? And how many old-time loyal fans in NYC are getting screwed?

Unless SU decides to play a couple games in MSG. Then the problems are all solved. Given that 90% of the people at the last SU @ STJ game were wearing orange, I feel like the odds of SU being able to book MSG in the future are pretty good.

How is the problem solved?

First yo have to figure out how you're going to get a couple of games in MSG in the first place. Scheduling St. John's means home & home, which is one game every other year. Where are the 2 games a year coming from.

What you really need to replace is the following:

1. regular season basketball games with 4 schools in the tri-state area, which means a minimum of 2 games per year, sometimes 3.

2. the Big East tournament, which means a week in the city every year.

3. football games with Rutgers & UConn, which means 1 football game annually in the try-state area.

How do "a couple of games in MSG" replace all of that, regardless of how you're even going to come up with those couple of games annually in t0 begin with. The issue here is access for alumni as well as the larger fan base. A couple of games a year in MSG simply doesn't compensate for the reduced access.

Just ask BC what the move to the ACC has done for them. It's been great financially, but attendance has declined at Chestnut Hill and the alums I know simply don't care about games against the ACC opponents the way they did about games against their traditional rivals or about being part of Big East competition in general.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2013 08:08 AM by Melky Cabrera.)
03-19-2013 07:57 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 04:00 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 03:48 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Right, a couple of games at MSG will be good. But from now on...

These are your possible future NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at Boston College (train or 3.5 hour car).
2. random game at MSG (either vs St John's or pre-season NIT, etc).

These used to be your possible former NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at St John's (local).
2. at Providence (train).
3. at UConn (2 hr car).
4. at Seton Hall (local).
5. at Rutgers (local).
6. at Villanova (train).
7. at Georgetown (train).
8. random game at MSG (NIT, etc).

Plus, you'll be trying to set up away games with teams that aren't going to want to provide you with exposure in their city. Plus your loyal NYC alums will be screwed. Plus NYC to Syracuse is at least a 4 hour drive, right? 1.5 to Albany depending on traffic, another 2.5 to Syracuse from there.

1. Syracuse can and plans on playing OOC games in NYC. The problem with your analysis is that you are ignoring OOC games, which simply isn't accurate.
2. Why would a team decline to play in NYC and opt to play in Syracuse instead? The games in Syracuse are harder for opposing teams, and there is less publicity for them.
3. Conference games are essentially home and home games that are played every year. Playing an OOC home and home isn't somehow magically worse.
4. I think that you're getting loose with some of those games being NYC games. I don't think that a game vs. GU/Nova/UCONN in the middle of the week is more accessible than SDSU/BSU/Tokyo State University for most people.

You're ignoring the sheer volume of exposure in NYC and the Boston-DC corridor that currently exists with the Big East. It's simply not possible to replace that with cherry picked OOC games.

Secondly, you're ignoring the revenue that is generated in the Carrier Dome. Every time an MSG game replaces a Carrier Dome game, Syracuse loses money.

Third, you're ignoring the impact on the program. Boeheim loves a preseason schedule that is almost entirely home games. Syracuse annually builds up an eye popping record in the preseason by going undefeated at home - even if the home schedule consists of Colgate, St. Bonaventure, Niagara, etc. Do you really think that the basketball coach is going to want to give away sure wins to travel 250 miles away for a "home" game against a nationally competitive opponent.
03-19-2013 08:04 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 05:49 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  Public perspective: http://t.co/JsskMT6gcW

Not sure how accurate it is but looks like a decent sample to me.

It was tweeted by "Fake SportsCenter" so don't sue me if it's just completely made up.

What you apparently didn't notice is that the tiny spot of blue (Big East) in downstate NY is NYC - where all the people live
03-19-2013 08:22 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-18-2013 11:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.

Get real? What you're posting isn't real.

The fact is that St. John's is 13 miles away from MSG, not 20 miles. How long it takes depends on whether you're driving, or taking a subway or commuter rail. Any way you go, it's an easy commute.

All of what you're posting doesn't change the fact that St. John's is the home team. Syracuse gets coverage in the NY media only because they're part of the Big East. No newspapers or TV stations send media up to Syracuse to cover the Orange and certainly will not do so with their move to the ACC. St. John's is the Big East's anchor in NYC.

When Syracuse is no longer playing games in NYC, they won't draw flies in MSG either.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2013 08:30 AM by Melky Cabrera.)
03-19-2013 08:30 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:04 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 04:00 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 03:48 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Right, a couple of games at MSG will be good. But from now on...

These are your possible future NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at Boston College (train or 3.5 hour car).
2. random game at MSG (either vs St John's or pre-season NIT, etc).

These used to be your possible former NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at St John's (local).
2. at Providence (train).
3. at UConn (2 hr car).
4. at Seton Hall (local).
5. at Rutgers (local).
6. at Villanova (train).
7. at Georgetown (train).
8. random game at MSG (NIT, etc).

Plus, you'll be trying to set up away games with teams that aren't going to want to provide you with exposure in their city. Plus your loyal NYC alums will be screwed. Plus NYC to Syracuse is at least a 4 hour drive, right? 1.5 to Albany depending on traffic, another 2.5 to Syracuse from there.

1. Syracuse can and plans on playing OOC games in NYC. The problem with your analysis is that you are ignoring OOC games, which simply isn't accurate.
2. Why would a team decline to play in NYC and opt to play in Syracuse instead? The games in Syracuse are harder for opposing teams, and there is less publicity for them.
3. Conference games are essentially home and home games that are played every year. Playing an OOC home and home isn't somehow magically worse.
4. I think that you're getting loose with some of those games being NYC games. I don't think that a game vs. GU/Nova/UCONN in the middle of the week is more accessible than SDSU/BSU/Tokyo State University for most people.

You're ignoring the sheer volume of exposure in NYC and the Boston-DC corridor that currently exists with the Big East. It's simply not possible to replace that with cherry picked OOC games.

Secondly, you're ignoring the revenue that is generated in the Carrier Dome. Every time an MSG game replaces a Carrier Dome game, Syracuse loses money.

Third, you're ignoring the impact on the program. Boeheim loves a preseason schedule that is almost entirely home games. Syracuse annually builds up an eye popping record in the preseason by going undefeated at home - even if the home schedule consists of Colgate, St. Bonaventure, Niagara, etc. Do you really think that the basketball coach is going to want to give away sure wins to travel 250 miles away for a "home" game against a nationally competitive opponent.

Boeheim will have to adjust. True...the Cuse has a ton of Nov/Dec games at home to make revenue. Now in the ACC the revenue pressure will not be as great and they shuold be able to drop a couple low majors to play away in the BOS-WASH.

Another factor is Cuse is very popular host school for the Pre-Season NIT and other tournaments (Gazelle Group) in NYC.

SJU shouldn't care if they host it in MSG every year. Splitting the gate is the same as doing a home and away for SJU except the travel is better. It is a moot point right now as Cuse/SJU is doing a home and home.
03-19-2013 08:39 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:30 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 11:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.

Get real? What you're posting isn't real.

The fact is that St. John's is 13 miles away from MSG, not 20 miles. How long it takes depends on whether you're driving, or taking a subway or commuter rail. Any way you go, it's an easy commute.

All of what you're posting doesn't change the fact that St. John's is the home team. Syracuse gets coverage in the NY media only because they're part of the Big East. No newspapers or TV stations send media up to Syracuse to cover the Orange and certainly will not do so with their move to the ACC. St. John's is the Big East's anchor in NYC.

When Syracuse is no longer playing games in NYC, they won't draw flies in MSG either.

Ah BS!...The Big East will not have the same flavor and be the juggernaut you think. You think Butler, Marquette, St Louis, Xavier and Creighton will move the needle in NYC? UConn will lose relevance too as the new league is short on teams that will move the needle. Maybe you should worry about UConn too.

SJU somewhat has home court advantage but can they become a consistent Top 10-15 team? NYC wants to watch nationally relevant programs. Duke comes in once a year or so to NYC and draws well...Cuse will draw well whether it plays 1-3 games a year in NYC.
03-19-2013 08:50 AM
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WNCOrange Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:50 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  SJU somewhat has home court advantage but can they become a consistent Top 10-15 team?

I think they have the right coach but I think it is going to be tough for them to be a year in and year out top 25 team considering the quality of the programs around them in their new league.

G'town, Marquette, Creighton, Butler are all superior programs currently. I would put 'Nova slightly ahead of them as well. While SH, Providence and Depaul are clearly the bottom of that league.

Depending on who else they pick up they could be pushed down more. Of the teams 'under consideration' St Louis and VCU are both better programs as well.
03-19-2013 08:59 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:30 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 11:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.

Get real? What you're posting isn't real.

The fact is that St. John's is 13 miles away from MSG, not 20 miles. How long it takes depends on whether you're driving, or taking a subway or commuter rail. Any way you go, it's an easy commute.

All of what you're posting doesn't change the fact that St. John's is the home team. Syracuse gets coverage in the NY media only because they're part of the Big East. No newspapers or TV stations send media up to Syracuse to cover the Orange and certainly will not do so with their move to the ACC. St. John's is the Big East's anchor in NYC.

When Syracuse is no longer playing games in NYC, they won't draw flies in MSG either.

Easy commute by car on a weekday? 03-lmfao
03-19-2013 09:12 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 09:12 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 08:30 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 11:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.

Get real? What you're posting isn't real.

The fact is that St. John's is 13 miles away from MSG, not 20 miles. How long it takes depends on whether you're driving, or taking a subway or commuter rail. Any way you go, it's an easy commute.

All of what you're posting doesn't change the fact that St. John's is the home team. Syracuse gets coverage in the NY media only because they're part of the Big East. No newspapers or TV stations send media up to Syracuse to cover the Orange and certainly will not do so with their move to the ACC. St. John's is the Big East's anchor in NYC.

When Syracuse is no longer playing games in NYC, they won't draw flies in MSG either.

Easy commute by car on a weekday? 03-lmfao

How easy is it a commute from Syracuse on a weekday? hahaha

You having alumni in NYC (since most Cuse kids come from LI) doesn't make you NYC's team. Michigan, Duke and Notre Dame have a ton of alumni in NYC. That doesn't mean they are the home team. Thats doesn't mean they are NYC's team.

Renting or owning doesn't mean anything. When Syracuse is the 6th borough then you guys MIGHT have an argument but the fact that schools like Penn St and Maryland are closer to NYC than Syracuse show just how much you are part of NYC.

Like I said, if you want to rent out MSG and play Iona or Fordham go right ahead. BUT when you play us you are the visitor with no right to any of the gate.
03-19-2013 09:34 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:39 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 08:04 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 04:00 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 03:48 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Right, a couple of games at MSG will be good. But from now on...

These are your possible future NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at Boston College (train or 3.5 hour car).
2. random game at MSG (either vs St John's or pre-season NIT, etc).

These used to be your possible former NYC area games, pending home-and-home schedule:
1. at St John's (local).
2. at Providence (train).
3. at UConn (2 hr car).
4. at Seton Hall (local).
5. at Rutgers (local).
6. at Villanova (train).
7. at Georgetown (train).
8. random game at MSG (NIT, etc).

Plus, you'll be trying to set up away games with teams that aren't going to want to provide you with exposure in their city. Plus your loyal NYC alums will be screwed. Plus NYC to Syracuse is at least a 4 hour drive, right? 1.5 to Albany depending on traffic, another 2.5 to Syracuse from there.

1. Syracuse can and plans on playing OOC games in NYC. The problem with your analysis is that you are ignoring OOC games, which simply isn't accurate.
2. Why would a team decline to play in NYC and opt to play in Syracuse instead? The games in Syracuse are harder for opposing teams, and there is less publicity for them.
3. Conference games are essentially home and home games that are played every year. Playing an OOC home and home isn't somehow magically worse.
4. I think that you're getting loose with some of those games being NYC games. I don't think that a game vs. GU/Nova/UCONN in the middle of the week is more accessible than SDSU/BSU/Tokyo State University for most people.

You're ignoring the sheer volume of exposure in NYC and the Boston-DC corridor that currently exists with the Big East. It's simply not possible to replace that with cherry picked OOC games.

Secondly, you're ignoring the revenue that is generated in the Carrier Dome. Every time an MSG game replaces a Carrier Dome game, Syracuse loses money.

Third, you're ignoring the impact on the program. Boeheim loves a preseason schedule that is almost entirely home games. Syracuse annually builds up an eye popping record in the preseason by going undefeated at home - even if the home schedule consists of Colgate, St. Bonaventure, Niagara, etc. Do you really think that the basketball coach is going to want to give away sure wins to travel 250 miles away for a "home" game against a nationally competitive opponent.

Boeheim will have to adjust. True...the Cuse has a ton of Nov/Dec games at home to make revenue. Now in the ACC the revenue pressure will not be as great and they shuold be able to drop a couple low majors to play away in the BOS-WASH.

Another factor is Cuse is very popular host school for the Pre-Season NIT and other tournaments (Gazelle Group) in NYC.

SJU shouldn't care if they host it in MSG every year. Splitting the gate is the same as doing a home and away for SJU except the travel is better. It is a moot point right now as Cuse/SJU is doing a home and home.

The issue with the preseason schedule isn't just revenue, it's the ability to have home court advantage and build up a winning streak to obtain momentum and to gain national ranking before facing a brutal conference schedule as was the case in the Big East and will be the case again in the ACC.

Coaches care a lot about how their schedule is put together. As much as a difficult schedule can help with RPI, coaches also have a magic number of wins they want. I saw the same thing here in CT over the years with Calhoun. He wanted a few big national games, but only a few. Mostly he wanted preseason games to build up wins and to coach his team as it was coming together. In these days of one-and-done, that's even more important than it once was because rarely does a coach with a big time team have a veteran lineup.

If syracuse will agree to an annual MSG game with split revenue with St. John's, I would have no problem with that if I were the Red Storm. I thought the suggestion was for a home-and-home with SU getting 50% of the revenue for St. John's home game.
03-19-2013 10:37 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Big East vs ACC vs Atlantic 10
(03-19-2013 08:50 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 08:30 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 11:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 02:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(03-18-2013 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Melky you raise some good points. I just hope that Cuse figures out hwo to play in NYC a couple games every season. Our AD said Brooklyn is in play for games too. St Johns is on the schedule. It is planned to be in Cuse/NYC on rotation. I'd prefer if it was at MSG every year and the two schools split the gate. Which is actually a bad deal for Cuse as they outdraw SJU at MSG. I see Nova getting a call too for games. Not sure if UConn gets the call but a 1-1-1 (Cuse/Hartford/NYC) would be cool. Georgetown is supposed to be in the works. I doubt Cuse has much interaction with any other schools from the BE.

You really don't see the disrespect there do you? Completely oblivious to how insulting that suggestion is. How would you feel if Notre Dame wants to play a FB game with you at the Dome but they want to split the gate because they bring so many fans. You, the alumni and the administration would all say "F*** NO!". That is what you are suggesting to us.

This is why we hate your fan base so much. The arrogance.

Get real...your school is 20 miles and 60 mins away from MSG. You rent out the building. It is not Syracuse's fault you draw flies at MSG unless you are playing a big team. In fact you don't play all your games at MSG only the ones that draw. If we played SJU every year at MSG...well over half the crowd would be wearing Orange...just reality.

Get real? What you're posting isn't real.

The fact is that St. John's is 13 miles away from MSG, not 20 miles. How long it takes depends on whether you're driving, or taking a subway or commuter rail. Any way you go, it's an easy commute.

All of what you're posting doesn't change the fact that St. John's is the home team. Syracuse gets coverage in the NY media only because they're part of the Big East. No newspapers or TV stations send media up to Syracuse to cover the Orange and certainly will not do so with their move to the ACC. St. John's is the Big East's anchor in NYC.

When Syracuse is no longer playing games in NYC, they won't draw flies in MSG either.

Ah BS!...The Big East will not have the same flavor and be the juggernaut you think. You think Butler, Marquette, St Louis, Xavier and Creighton will move the needle in NYC? UConn will lose relevance too as the new league is short on teams that will move the needle. Maybe you should worry about UConn too.

SJU somewhat has home court advantage but can they become a consistent Top 10-15 team? NYC wants to watch nationally relevant programs. Duke comes in once a year or so to NYC and draws well...Cuse will draw well whether it plays 1-3 games a year in NYC.

I think you misunderstood my comment. I wasn't saying that SU wouldn't be able to draw flies if they play in MSG. I was saying that if they're not playing any games there, obviously the attendance will be aero for zero games.

As for being worried about UConn, I absolutely am! I hate this new league and want to get out of it as fast as possible. We've been devestated by realignment. It's a game of musical chairs and we're one of the last ones standing when the music stopped. Do you think that I'm happy about Providence making more in conference TV money for basketball alone than we are for basketball and football combined?! Hideous.

It's amazing that the newbies are complaining that they didn't get what they signed up for. True and I sympathize. But fact is that they're bringing nothing to the table. Nothing. The value of this group is awful.

You're absolutely right that NYC wants to watch nationally relevant games. Their are too many other entertainment options in the city for anyone to waste their time on anything that's not special. So, if Syracuse maintains the consistency that they've had under Boeheim for the last 38 years, yes, they will draw when they come to town. Can St. John's be a consistently nationally ranked team? Of course they can as they were for 60 years and more before Jarvis ran this program into the ground. The failed rebuilding program under Norm Roberts that followed has had the program languishing, but Lavin has them going to in the right direction.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2013 10:48 AM by Melky Cabrera.)
03-19-2013 10:48 AM
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