Just to illustrate a point, here's last year's sagarin:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

And here's how Phil Steele tabulates the differences between FBS and FCS:

http://philsteele.com/fbsinfo/2012/12FBS...tings.html
http://philsteele.com/FCSINFO/Fcs_pratings.html

The outrageous difference between the two just shows that computers whether they are phil's or jeff's, can't make accurate conclusions between the two divisions.

The Top two FCS and the closest FBS in the Sagarins:

Phil Steele
Duke 132
Georgia Southern 109

Jeff Sagarin
Duke 68.0
Georgia Southern 68.4

Phil Steele
NC STATE 140
Sam Houston State 125

Jeff Sagarin
NC STATE 70.7
Sam Houston State 70.8

You shouldn't be able to draw accurate conclusions from either. But go on FCS fans, I want to hear why Jeff's system is far superior to Phil's, who has the disparity between FBS and FCS a much wider gap than Sagarin does. I don't think either system works, but I can attest to the fact that Phil Steele knows more about college football than Jeff Sagarin.

The best bet is to average all of them. I can't say one is better than the other. Sagarin is more favorable to FCS than the others.

Sagrin himself says his system will not work to compare FCS to FBS. It is a statistically invalid comparison

I'm playing with both data sets right now on Excel.

I wish Phil provided how he derived his rankings and provide at least a few decimal places so you don't have so many teams tied for a rank, where as Jeff provides a unique value for each team and rarely has a tie.

Not knowing Phil methodology makes it a bit harder to really compare the two and come up with anything conclusive to justify which algorithm is a better.

I do agree, it is harder or possibly invalid to compare the FCS to FBS due to difference in SOS and scholarship depth.

I did notice WKU barely edged out Kentucky in both rankings, TIFWIW.

Jeff Sagarin sniffs glue...that is the only way to explain his rankings.

I would argue that the ratings systems are ALL faulty because there are variables a computer can't calculate such as scheme and individual match-ups. Does anyone think Notre Dame was the 2nd best team in the country in 2012? The computer and biased sports writers thought so.

App and Southern don't need Sagarin. We both have a culture of winning and no administration will be allowed to rest on the laurels of mediocrity for long. Most folks have reasonable expectations of 3-5 years to catch up in depth.

The Ga Southern numb nut who keeps referring to Sagarin will be calling for the AD, President, and Coach to be fired before 2013 is over.

(03-14-2013 06:48 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  Just to illustrate a point, here's last year's sagarin:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

Phil Steele knows more about college football than Jeff Sagarin.

That's a given. Phil Steele is a football analyst, and Sagarin knows stats. The real question is why we let stats determine who gets into the playoff. In hoops, you can earn your way in by winning your conference. In football, we're still set up to rely on rankings for the foreseeable future.

(03-14-2013 06:48 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  Just to illustrate a point, here's last year's sagarin:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

And here's how Phil Steele tabulates the differences between FBS and FCS:

http://philsteele.com/fbsinfo/2012/12FBS...tings.html
http://philsteele.com/FCSINFO/Fcs_pratings.html

The outrageous difference between the two just shows that computers whether they are phil's or jeff's, can't make accurate conclusions between the two divisions.

The Top two FCS and the closest FBS in the Sagarins:

Phil Steele
Duke 132
Georgia Southern 109

Jeff Sagarin
Duke 68.0
Georgia Southern 68.4

Phil Steele
NC STATE 140
Sam Houston State 125

Jeff Sagarin
NC STATE 70.7
Sam Houston State 70.8

You shouldn't be able to draw accurate conclusions from either. But go on FCS fans, I want to hear why Jeff's system is far superior to Phil's, who has the disparity between FBS and FCS a much wider gap than Sagarin does. I don't think either system works, but I can attest to the fact that Phil Steele knows more about college football than Jeff Sagarin.

Sagarin's newer system has always overrated the FCS teams.

It's one of the factors in ranking system that is high opinion. The differences in divisions. It's difficult to measure the actual strength of divisions with so few inter-division games, so often the factor is somehow fudged by the programmer.