(03-14-2013 04:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:34 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 03:29 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 03:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  For sure NCSU makes more sense as a "2nd add" rather than anyone's first choice, but if the SEC really wants into North Carolina, why would they do nothing while the Big Ten courts UNC?

Granted, the Big Ten's approaches to UNC might be no more successful than their approaches to Notre Dame, but if I was Slive, I'd make it clear to UNC that there's a place for them in the SEC if they ever want to leave the ACC, so that the Heels know they have the option of choosing the SEC over the B1G (which IMO is a much better fit for UNC).

I disagree, UNC is a lot more like U of Michigan than Alabama

In some ways, but geography and the culture outside the school's boundaries still matter. Stanford is a lot more like Dartmouth than Washington State, but that doesn't mean Stanford is going to join the Ivy League.

Geography and culture? Hello? Maryland is in the B10, if they take UVA, Rutgers? Those are close schools. Not to mention, have you been to the Triangle lately? The place is far from southern.

Last time I was there was about 10 years ago, but how non-southern could it have become in that time? Atlanta is in the south, and it's not non-southern just because it's urban and suburban.

UNC vs. Florida or LSU makes sense. UNC vs. Nebraska or Wisconsin? That's what they used to call an "intersectional game". It should never be a conference game. IMO.

Raleigh-Durham has become non southern the same way Arlington and Alexandria Virginia are non southern although they are located in the south. Atlanta is in Georgia. The transplants to the "halfway" state (halfway from Florida to New England) have doubled in the past decade and in doing so, transitioned the culture.

Aligning with MSG makes even more sense if Temple, UConn and Cincinatti are prospective members. Syracuse and Boston College are already in the New York area. All these schools could draw big numbers in New York, even if UNC, Virginia, NC State, Virginia Tech, Clemson and Florida State aren't members of the ACC. The conference's geography may move even more northeast after the next round of realignment.

Slive is most definitely courting UNC but I unfortunately, I don't believe UNC likes the idea of being in the SEC.

-They see us as a downgrade academically (however laughable that is after their cheating scandal)

-We are not a basketball first league and there is only so much UNC could do to bolster that by themselves.

-Not sure how willing we would be to bring in Duke (vs say UVA or VT)

Thats not to say they find the B1G's proposition all that much more appealing because despite the academics, UNC Vs Iowa? UNC vs Purdue? UNC vs Wisconsin? just kinda screams WTF.

I think UNC is happy being king of the ACC but you have to believe the B1G is pressuring them by saying "Oh well, we'll just take UVA and GT in your place. Why not just join us and we'll make sure UVA, Duke and GT get to come with you!"

IOW, how good is the bait Delaney is fishing with?

(03-14-2013 03:56 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 03:53 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 03:22 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I know about the teams that are there from the BE that will be in the ACC soon enough. I am talking about the conference we are "joining"! As a new member we should "adapt and enhance", not expect to "change" the conference. We are not WVU! We should not join a conference and "*****" about our situation!

I tend to agree. But given Thamel's quote and who he was probably talking to, it sounds like the Big East block is going to be voting for anywhere other than North Carolina for the conference tourney.

Maybe DC. At least it would be neutral ground.

I thought DC was already in the rotation

It might be. I'm new to all this ACC stuff. Lol.

The Thamel article doesn't read much different than any number of posts here.

(03-14-2013 04:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:34 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 03:29 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I disagree, UNC is a lot more like U of Michigan than Alabama

In some ways, but geography and the culture outside the school's boundaries still matter. Stanford is a lot more like Dartmouth than Washington State, but that doesn't mean Stanford is going to join the Ivy League.

Geography and culture? Hello? Maryland is in the B10, if they take UVA, Rutgers? Those are close schools. Not to mention, have you been to the Triangle lately? The place is far from southern.

Last time I was there was about 10 years ago, but how non-southern could it have become in that time? Atlanta is in the south, and it's not non-southern just because it's urban and suburban.

UNC vs. Florida or LSU makes sense. UNC vs. Nebraska or Wisconsin? That's what they used to call an "intersectional game". It should never be a conference game. IMO.

Raleigh-Durham has become non southern the same way Arlington and Alexandria Virginia are non southern although they are located in the south. Atlanta is in Georgia. The transplants to the "halfway" state (halfway from Florida to New England) have doubled in the past decade and in doing so, transitioned the culture.

I was born and raised in the Triangle, a d while the population does have a decided transplant vibe, the old money and power brokers at UNC are old south.

(03-14-2013 05:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  The Thamel article doesn't read much different than any number of posts here.

Well said.

More conference realigment nonsense. Thamel seems convinced that the ACC will soon be poached into near-oblivion, so what difference does it make where future ACC basketball tournaments are held? Why would MSG want to sign a long-term lease with a soon-to-be-gutted ACC when in a few years MSG could sign such a lease with an 18-20 team B1G that includes UNC, Duke, Virginia, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, and Michigan?

Well there is the strong possibility that no school save Maryland leaves the ACC.

(03-14-2013 07:05 PM)PhiladelphiaVT Wrote:  More conference realigment nonsense. Thamel seems convinced that the ACC will soon be poached into near-oblivion, so what difference does it make where future ACC basketball tournaments are held? Why would MSG want to sign a long-term lease with a soon-to-be-gutted ACC when in a few years MSG could sign such a lease with an 18-20 team B1G that includes UNC, Duke, Virginia, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, and Michigan?

Thank you!

(03-14-2013 05:43 PM)Bones N Skulls Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:53 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:34 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  In some ways, but geography and the culture outside the school's boundaries still matter. Stanford is a lot more like Dartmouth than Washington State, but that doesn't mean Stanford is going to join the Ivy League.

Geography and culture? Hello? Maryland is in the B10, if they take UVA, Rutgers? Those are close schools. Not to mention, have you been to the Triangle lately? The place is far from southern.

Last time I was there was about 10 years ago, but how non-southern could it have become in that time? Atlanta is in the south, and it's not non-southern just because it's urban and suburban.

UNC vs. Florida or LSU makes sense. UNC vs. Nebraska or Wisconsin? That's what they used to call an "intersectional game". It should never be a conference game. IMO.

Raleigh-Durham has become non southern the same way Arlington and Alexandria Virginia are non southern although they are located in the south. Atlanta is in Georgia. The transplants to the "halfway" state (halfway from Florida to New England) have doubled in the past decade and in doing so, transitioned the culture.

I was born and raised in the Triangle, a d while the population does have a decided transplant vibe, the old money and power brokers at UNC are old south.

Bingo! That is the key to this whole argument. Academicians will be pro Big 10. The private givers to the Universities and the politicians will be pro South (not necessarily pro SEC). If Virginia, Duke, and North Carolina decide to go to the Big 10 there will be economic fallout and initially some political fallout as well.

The problem with this whole discussion is that both sides have been too absolute. North Carolina and Virginia have been affected by Northern culture, but they are hardly Northern. They are traditional Southern states, but hardly the kind of Southern you find in the SEC. North Carolina and Virginia have become hybrid states culturally. They are much more like Missouri in that regard. What they choose to do in the event of a raid will be anyone's guess including Delany and Slive.

There is strong sentiment to argue for the CIC, but also strong sentiment for the 5 Virginia and North Carolina schools to stay together. The SEC is in better position to make that kind of an offer than the Big 10. It would not be what they would like to do, but it could come down to that kind of a decision.

Do the states of North Carolina and Virgina and 3 AAU schools merit 5 invitations? Would the SEC add Georgia Tech or Pitt to the aforementioned for their 20 team conference. Either of them would give them a 4th AAU school out of the 6 invitations. That is why Mr. SEC speculated that if faced with such a decision the SEC may offer that 6th spot to Pitt. When the money was calculated for market penetration the addition of Pitt (if they were willing) would, when added to the Value of North Carolina and Virginia, cover N.C. State's addition and the extra Virginia School. It would be profitable for the SEC to do, but not nearly as profitable as simply taking U.N.C. and Virginia Tech.

Who knows how this plays out? And I'm still not certain the ACC gets raided at all. Misinformation is constantly part of this game. If everyone is talking about the ACC then maybe the real action is going to be in the Big 12. Everyone's conversation about the SEC wanting a North Carolina school and Virginia Tech may be a smoke screen for all we know.

I do know this. Mike Slive is a big respecter of events. He will do nothing until the NCAA basketball tournament is over. He has planned his announcement for the SEC Network for mid April. If the SEC has any additions to make they might be included with that announcement or immediately thereafter. Delany I'm sure will respect the tournament as well. After all if everyone who suspects an ACC raid were to be correct why would either conference want to screw up the ACC's favorite time of the year. That would truly be an unwanted distraction.

Personally I think the Maryland case decides the direction we head. And I don't want 5 teams from two states no matter who they are. Anyone in the SEC who thinks that is a good idea hasn't really considered that it would be giving the old Tobacco Road crowd and their closest buddies 1/4 of the voting strength of the SEC. That would be the seeds of discord being sewn. I also think that going outside of your brand and your cultural profile will be destructive to the greatest quality that the SEC and Big 10 share, close regional association of their brand to their fans. Both may gain larger markets and both may get initially richer, but if they break the bonds of that close regional association by delving into regions their fans don't give a dam* about they will pay the price in loyalty.

Let's just get it done so we can go back to brag and rag and criticizing officials and griping about rule changes. We also need a protracted period of time without change just to get our sense of seasonal stability back and recapture a sense of permanence for our traditions.

There are six North Carolina and Virginia schools.

(03-14-2013 09:33 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  There are six North Carolina and Virginia schools.

I'm sorry, Wake is a great school that once enjoyed regular games with my school, but it has not been part of the SEC expansion discussions. That is why I said 5. Only 5 have been discussed as prospects.

My hope for Wake and for the college football world is that the ACC is not raided. If the ACC stands then there will be four conferences instead of 3 and 16 - 18 teams tops per conference, instead of 20 or even 24. If the ACC goes there is no way the Big 12 eventually survives without a network.

(03-14-2013 07:05 PM)PhiladelphiaVT Wrote:  More conference realigment nonsense. Thamel seems convinced that the ACC will soon be poached into near-oblivion, so what difference does it make where future ACC basketball tournaments are held? Why would MSG want to sign a long-term lease with a soon-to-be-gutted ACC when in a few years MSG could sign such a lease with an 18-20 team B1G that includes UNC, Duke, Virginia, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, and Michigan?

The Big East used to be the Big East and play at MSG. After the next round of raids, the ACC will be the Big East and should play at MSG......why is that so hard to figure out?

By the way,this quote was HUGE by Thamel:

"All five major conference commissioners privately acknowledge that realignment isn't done. And the next logical evolution will inevitably be a poaching of the ACC."

So, either Thamel is a liar and willing to throw his career down the toilet to support WVU message board rumors...OR...Swofford is telling people that the writing is on the wall and the ACC is in huge trouble. Even Swofford is admitting it to people but it is tragic that not one of the myopic ACC fans who post here can come to terms with reality.

(03-14-2013 09:58 PM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 07:05 PM)PhiladelphiaVT Wrote:  More conference realigment nonsense. Thamel seems convinced that the ACC will soon be poached into near-oblivion, so what difference does it make where future ACC basketball tournaments are held? Why would MSG want to sign a long-term lease with a soon-to-be-gutted ACC when in a few years MSG could sign such a lease with an 18-20 team B1G that includes UNC, Duke, Virginia, Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, Ohio State, and Michigan?

The Big East used to be the Big East and play at MSG. After the next round of raids, the ACC will be the Big East and should play at MSG......why is that so hard to figure out?

By the way,this quote was HUGE by Thamel:

"All five major conference commissioners privately acknowledge that realignment isn't done. And the next logical evolution will inevitably be a poaching of the ACC."

So, either Thamel is a liar and willing to throw his career down the toilet to support WVU message board rumors...OR...Swofford is telling people that the writing is on the wall and the ACC is in huge trouble. Even Swofford is admitting it to people but it is tragic that not one of the myopic ACC fans who post here can come to terms with reality.

As a Partial ACC fan that quote was important and I don't believe realignment is over.

Saying there will be more realignment and saying it will involve a raid on the ACC are two different things. There's no way Swofford would even hint to a reporter that raid on the ACC was coming.

(03-14-2013 10:06 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Saying there will be more realignment and saying it will involve a raid on the ACC are two different things. There's no way Swofford would even hint to a reporter that raid on the ACC was coming.

I imagine a couple or more said that they expected the teams to come from ACC. You're correct that Swofford wouldn't offer that up to Thamel.

Look if more expansion is going to happen what is the most vulnerable conference? In my mind it is the ACC by a mile.

If someone other than the Big XII wants to take FSU, then ok. But otherwise there is little motivation or desire for any of the other ACC schools to move.

(03-14-2013 10:14 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:06 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Saying there will be more realignment and saying it will involve a raid on the ACC are two different things. There's no way Swofford would even hint to a reporter that raid on the ACC was coming.

I imagine a couple or more said that they expected the teams to come from ACC. You're correct that Swofford wouldn't offer that up to Thamel.

Look if more expansion is going to happen what is the most vulnerable conference? In my mind it is the ACC by a mile.

Of the power conferences not called the SEC, the ACC is the only one without a GOR, the ACC makes the least $ per team and it is the only one of the 5 without a bowl tie-in with the champion of another power conference.

Does any of that matter to ACC fans on this board? Of course not.

Jesus could come down from heaven, pronounce the end of the ACC from the top of Mt Zion, then fly over to North America and destroy every ACC campus with a holy laser gun and there would be Lousville & Pitt fans posting here that the Big 12 is still more vulnerable than the ACC because Kansas wants to be in the B1G.

(03-14-2013 10:25 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  If someone other than the Big XII wants to take FSU, then ok. But otherwise there is little motivation or desire for any of the other ACC schools to move.

So....why do you think Thamel is lying?