(03-14-2013 09:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 09:05 AM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:55 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  [quote='Maize' pid='9090029' dateline='1363268407']
Frank actually has sources & is in tune with this...hasn't been wrong yet. Wow, just wow

It is really simple. Frank said the idea of an ACC school thinking of going to the Big 12 should have never been taken seriously. I post direct quotes from the then chairman of the FSU Board who says the entire board is interested in hearing what the Big 12 has to say and that the option of going to the Big 12 has to be taken seriously......and you still side with Frank?!?

You realize Haggard was removed shortly there after.
[/quot
He was already on his way out the door, he only had a month left on the BOT & the FSU President put an end to that pretty quickly.

He was still on the board. There was just a different chairman as his term ended. The FSU president gave a presentation in a board meeting several months later. He estimated the Big 12 contract with FSU would pay $22 million. Also estimated additional travel expenses at $2 million. Didn't have any numbers on any changes in Tier 3. Doesn't appear that its over yet with the AD's recent comments. They've still got their options on the table, and obviously that includes doing nothing.

I think Clemson shut down talk and decided to committ to the ACC barring defections. They had 2 board meetings discussing it. After their coach threw a fit, the talk died down. The AD who was open to moving retired. Swofford had a private meeting with the Clemson board. Clemson supposedly supported the $50 million exit fee.

(03-14-2013 08:38 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  I think everybody is over-estimating the B1G and SEC future TV money.

Based on the current deals, Big 12 will be making the most per school in 2014. It is logical that the Big 10's renewal in 2017 will put them ahead of everyone else. Its not logical that ESPN will tear up their long-term contract and give the SEC way more than anyone else, but they won't stay in 5th place as they are today (since their 12 team deal is temporarily paying 14 teams). So it remains to be seen where everyone ends up. The SEC had the best ratings this year, but they declined from last year. The Big 10 was just slightly ahead of the Big 12.

(03-14-2013 07:44 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:40 AM)Maize Wrote:  Frank actually has sources & is in tune with this...hasn't been wrong yet. Wow, just wow

It is really simple. Frank said the idea of an ACC school thinking of going to the Big 12 should have never been taken seriously. I post direct quotes from the then chairman of the FSU Board who says the entire board is interested in hearing what the Big 12 has to say and that the option of going to the Big 12 has to be taken seriously......and you still side with Frank?!?

I'm not taking sides, but there is definitely something to be said for bluffing in a poker game when it comes to FSU's behavior in all of this. I think it's safe to say that FSU's ideal scenario is to stay right where they are and still earn what they think they are worth. The question is can they have that?

Openly stating "we would consider the Big 12" is one sure fire way for FSU to make ESPN open the checkbook, but that doesn't mean the Big 12 would ever be FSU's first option. And I think that is what Frank was alluding to - the fact that the Big 12 would never be considered a first option for anyone in the ACC.

(03-14-2013 09:05 AM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:55 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:40 AM)Maize Wrote:  Frank actually has sources & is in tune with this...hasn't been wrong yet. Wow, just wow

It is really simple. Frank said the idea of an ACC school thinking of going to the Big 12 should have never been taken seriously. I post direct quotes from the then chairman of the FSU Board who says the entire board is interested in hearing what the Big 12 has to say and that the option of going to the Big 12 has to be taken seriously......and you still side with Frank?!?

You realize Haggard was removed shortly there after.

Yep.....still, if we can't take the head of the board of a University seriously, we can't take anyone seriously in all of this. Frank the Tank was wrong. You are just going to have to come to terms with that.

(03-14-2013 11:28 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 07:44 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:40 AM)Maize Wrote:  Frank actually has sources & is in tune with this...hasn't been wrong yet. Wow, just wow

It is really simple. Frank said the idea of an ACC school thinking of going to the Big 12 should have never been taken seriously. I post direct quotes from the then chairman of the FSU Board who says the entire board is interested in hearing what the Big 12 has to say and that the option of going to the Big 12 has to be taken seriously......and you still side with Frank?!?

I'm not taking sides, but there is definitely something to be said for bluffing in a poker game when it comes to FSU's behavior in all of this. I think it's safe to say that FSU's ideal scenario is to stay right where they are and still earn what they think they are worth. The question is can they have that?

Openly stating "we would consider the Big 12" is one sure fire way for FSU to make ESPN open the checkbook, but that doesn't mean the Big 12 would ever be FSU's first option. And I think that is what Frank was alluding to - the fact that the Big 12 would never be considered a first option for anyone in the ACC.

Frank never said "first option." He said the idea that the Big 12 could take a team from the ACC should never have been taken seriously. No sane person can hold that opinion based on the comments of the former chair of the FSU board.

I am willing to concede that any ACC team that is offered by the B1G or the SEC should take that offer before taking a Big 12 offer (hell, I'd prefer Texas in the B1G or SEC) if you are willing to concede that Frank the Tank said something really idiotic.

(03-14-2013 11:50 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  I am willing to concede that any ACC team that is offered by the B1G or the SEC should take that offer before taking a Big 12 offer (hell, I'd prefer Texas in the B1G or SEC) if you are willing to concede that Frank the Tank said something really idiotic.

I think he typed something off the top of his head onto a message board that was both significant and factually incorrect, as you proved. But it was a long way from idiotic. Maybe he'll clarify.

You're applying college debate rules to this chatter. I just don't hold any of this electronic water cooler gum flapping to that high of a standard.

(03-14-2013 02:33 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 11:50 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  I am willing to concede that any ACC team that is offered by the B1G or the SEC should take that offer before taking a Big 12 offer (hell, I'd prefer Texas in the B1G or SEC) if you are willing to concede that Frank the Tank said something really idiotic.

I think he typed something off the top of his head onto a message board that was both significant and factually incorrect, as you proved. But it was a long way from idiotic. Maybe he'll clarify.

You're applying college debate rules to this chatter. I just don't hold any of this electronic water cooler gum flapping to that high of a standard.

I disagree. It was idiotic. Remember, less than a year ago, the TCU AD publicly talked about ACC schools wanting to get in to the Big 12:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/rep...expansion/

Just as the rumors of Florida State openly flirting with the Big XII were starting to subside, Texas Christian University athletic director Chris Del Conte has fanned the flames and added two more schools to the list of schools looking at the Big XII.

During a morning speech on the campus of Texas Tech University, Del Conte said that the once left for dead Big XII Conference “now has schools like Florida State, Clemson, and Miami trying to get in,”

I know a lot of people here love him because Frank loves to take shots at Texas and belittle the Big 12 but he does this at the expense of reason and common sense. He is an intellectually dishonest individual. It is fine to say we shouldn't take message board posters seriously or we shouldn't take anonymous people on Twitter seriously, but to say that public statements from the head of the FSU Board or the TCU AD shouldn't be taken seriously is ****ing stupid.

I think that, out of a sense of loyalty to the schools that would necessarily be left out, the Big 12 and ACC may have declined an "all (or most) in" option back then. If you basically combine the two conferences, and then cut out the geographic overlap and a couple of outliers, you get a very good antagonist for the SEC. But schools like Baylor, Wake Forest, Iowa State, Boston College, etc. would probably be cut out of that deal.

Look, I also think there was clearly interest in seeing how the numbers would add up if a bunch of ACC football schools went to the Big 12, so Frank basically saying there was no interest was just wrong. What I'm not clear on is how much of that interest was legitimate, how much of it was being polite to Texas, how much of it was Miami being its typical stupid self, and most importantly, how much of it was bluffing to get ESPN to pay more.

But that's a long way from "idiotic" for a message board. For me, on a message board, I reserve "idiotic" for statements that are so grammatically butchered that I cannot understand what the writer means.

(03-14-2013 10:11 PM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 02:33 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 11:50 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  I am willing to concede that any ACC team that is offered by the B1G or the SEC should take that offer before taking a Big 12 offer (hell, I'd prefer Texas in the B1G or SEC) if you are willing to concede that Frank the Tank said something really idiotic.

I think he typed something off the top of his head onto a message board that was both significant and factually incorrect, as you proved. But it was a long way from idiotic. Maybe he'll clarify.

You're applying college debate rules to this chatter. I just don't hold any of this electronic water cooler gum flapping to that high of a standard.

I disagree. It was idiotic. Remember, less than a year ago, the TCU AD publicly talked about ACC schools wanting to get in to the Big 12:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/rep...expansion/

Just as the rumors of Florida State openly flirting with the Big XII were starting to subside, Texas Christian University athletic director Chris Del Conte has fanned the flames and added two more schools to the list of schools looking at the Big XII.

During a morning speech on the campus of Texas Tech University, Del Conte said that the once left for dead Big XII Conference “now has schools like Florida State, Clemson, and Miami trying to get in,”

I know a lot of people here love him because Frank loves to take shots at Texas and belittle the Big 12 but he does this at the expense of reason and common sense. He is an intellectually dishonest individual. It is fine to say we shouldn't take message board posters seriously or we shouldn't take anonymous people on Twitter seriously, but to say that public statements from the head of the FSU Board or the TCU AD shouldn't be taken seriously is ****ing stupid.

Dude please. TCU's AD came out later and said it's all rumor mill

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/20...mson-miami

"What I'm not clear on is how much of that interest was legitimate"

For this sake of this discussion, the legitimacy of the interest is irrelevant.

Maybe the TCU AD and the Chair of the FSU Board were lying to us, we'll maybe never know.....the point is that when men in those positions talk publicly about ACC schools having serious interest in going to the Big 12, they have to be taken seriously.

Frank disagreed and he was comically wrong.

A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not. There have been rumors about the demise of The BEast football's AQ status since 2003, and it won't come to fruition until 2014. But it still happened. That particular rumor has been floating around for over a decade. Did it lose its credibility?

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

The A&M to the SEC rumor was around close to 2 years before it happened. Right up until the end, A&M was saying they were happy in the Big 12 and the SEC even took a vote & decided not to expand......and then a couple of weeks later A&M was in the SEC.

(03-15-2013 09:51 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

The A&M to the SEC rumor was around close to 2 years before it happened. Right up until the end, A&M was saying they were happy in the Big 12 and the SEC even took a vote & decided not to expand......and then a couple of weeks later A&M was in the SEC.

In addition Slive even said that expansion wasn't a big issue in July only to initially try to invite A&M in August. After the fact reports pointed to the wheels having been moving on it well before that summer. So public statements are pretty worthless here to either confirm or deny.

(03-15-2013 09:09 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not. There have been rumors about the demise of The BEast football's AQ status since 2003, and it won't come to fruition until 2014. But it still happened. That particular rumor has been floating around for over a decade. Did it lose its credibility?

That was a rumor that went around after Miami, VT and BC left the BE. With SU, WV, Pitt, Rutgers in the BE, it never happened. The decision to strip the BE of its AQ was made after SU, Pitt and WV found other homes.

(03-15-2013 12:30 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:09 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not. There have been rumors about the demise of The BEast football's AQ status since 2003, and it won't come to fruition until 2014. But it still happened. That particular rumor has been floating around for over a decade. Did it lose its credibility?

That was a rumor that went around after Miami, VT and BC left the BE. With SU, WV, Pitt, Rutgers in the BE, it never happened. The decision to strip the BE of its AQ was made after SU, Pitt and WV found other homes.

You can thank WVU and UofL for that. Those BCS wins stopped them from doing so at that time. Without WVU's big upset of Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, moved to Atlanta after Hurricane Katrina, they might have stripped The BEast of that bid before Louisville even got their chance in a BCS game against Wake Forest. That was the rumor going around prior to the WVU-UGA game...

(03-14-2013 08:56 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  The PAC12 is still struggling to get Satellite/Cable deals. I don't think the B1G will get the cable penetration in NYC that they are hoping for and any rate increase to existing deals will get resistance.

Pac-12 Network is widely available on cable, and it's on Dish as well. DirecTV is the holdout and they might hold out for a very long time. Time Warner didn't agree to carry NFL Network for about 5 years, so there is a precedent for a carrier freezing out a sports network for a long time.

Worse, for every conference network, is that DirecTV might soon have more leverage than they do now. DirecTV might buy Dish, which would increase DirecTV's number of subscribers from 20 million to 34 million. http://blogs.denverpost.com/techknowbyte...ived/9204/

(03-15-2013 11:27 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:51 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:50 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:46 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:59 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  A year ago more info was believable. Now, with all of the stupid rumors people keep coming up with, it's difficult to take anything seriously.

This particular rumor has been floating around for over a year, dude...

A rumor that has been around a year and hasn't happened loses credibility.

The A&M to the SEC rumor was around close to 2 years before it happened. Right up until the end, A&M was saying they were happy in the Big 12 and the SEC even took a vote & decided not to expand......and then a couple of weeks later A&M was in the SEC.

In addition Slive even said that expansion wasn't a big issue in July only to initially try to invite A&M in August. After the fact reports pointed to the wheels having been moving on it well before that summer. So public statements are pretty worthless here to either confirm or deny.

That's why these officials are careful to always say "AT THIS TIME"...