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(03-11-2013 01:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Y

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

And that is a poor reward for a hard fought season. Conference tournaments are made for Tv creation and devalue the regular season.

What harder to do? Win a regular season or a conference tournament

In the case of Mike Davis...

(03-11-2013 01:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Y

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

And that is a poor reward for a hard fought season. Conference tournaments are made for Tv creation and devalue the regular season.

What harder to do? Win a regular season or a conference tournament

+1

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

WHAT IF -- The NIT and NCAA both had the same number of teams playing at each level with neither group being the top and the other being the left overs - so that they play down to one team each and then those two have a series like baseball or the NBA? While there would always be stronger and weaker regions, they would be evenly matched as possible.

(03-11-2013 07:06 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

WHAT IF -- The NIT and NCAA both had the same number of teams playing at each level with neither group being the top and the other being the left overs - so that they play down to one team each and then those two have a series like baseball or the NBA? While there would always be stronger and weaker regions, they would be evenly matched as possible.

That would be called a 128 team national championship...

I would call it something that rhymes with a muster duck.

Back to the thread title ...

Don't loose heart, Liberty!

(03-11-2013 01:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Y

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

And that is a poor reward for a hard fought season. Conference tournaments are made for Tv creation and devalue the regular season.

What harder to do? Win a regular season or a conference tournament

I agree with your premise; there's no doubt the tournament champ earning the bid devalues the regular season to some degree, and it is definitely not the best method for ensuring the most deserving team gets the conference's bid. But how would you change it? If you give it to the regular season champ, you make the tournament meaningless and might as well eliminate it. There's no point in having a tournament if the carrot is not the bid.

So yes...conference tournaments are certainly a made-for-TV creation, but I don't know if you've noticed...TV is awesome.

What is also missed in all of this is the opportunity conference tournaments afford teams. There were a few seasons under Davis where if UAB advanced(I know, I know) and wound up beating Memphis, UTEP, UCF, Marshall, etc., it would have helped the resume.

This year, teams like Boise State, seemingly half the A-10, La Tech, (Saint Marys before last night) etc. can play their way into the NCAA tournament because of a chance at another decent win or two in the tournament. The problem we have playing in these conferences is they are littered with 100+ RPI teams, and the opportunities for big wins are few in conference play. The same can be said for the team that gets hot in a major tournament too, but the opportunity is out there in these tournaments for most teams with an at large hope.

(03-11-2013 01:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  Y

(03-11-2013 01:17 PM)the_blazerman Wrote:  The regular season conference champs already have an automatic invite to the NIT if they lose the conference tournament & aren't selected for an at large NCAA bid.

And that is a poor reward for a hard fought season. Conference tournaments are made for Tv creation and devalue the regular season.

What harder to do? Win a regular season or a conference tournament

If we are going to have conference tournaments then I think conferences should get a bid for the regular season champion and the conference champion. I know the argument is that conferences would have the season champion tank it in the conference tournament but who really cares? I would prefer to see the best team from each conference and a couple of upstarts like Liberty make the tournament every year than 0.500 teams from a major conference.

I would not. Ever. The SWAC is barely deserving of the one bid they get every year, I don't want to see them get two teams in. The tournament is fine the way it is in my opinion, and the teams that don't get in have themselves to blame most of the time.

Would you really say the first resume here is better than the second:

21-8(12-4)
RPI 48
SOS 92
vs top 50: 0-5
vs 51-100: 2-2
100+ losses: 1

20-11(8-10)
RPI 37
SOS 2
vs top 50: 5-7
vs 51-100: 6-1
100+ losses: 3

(03-13-2013 10:52 AM)uab278 Wrote:  I know the argument is that conferences would have the season champion tank it in the conference tournament

I don't believe that for a second, and would laugh at anyone who tried to argue it.

(03-13-2013 11:33 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 10:52 AM)uab278 Wrote:  I know the argument is that conferences would have the season champion tank it in the conference tournament

I don't believe that for a second, and would laugh at anyone who tried to argue it.

I agree to an extent. I thought about pro teams who don't play starters at the end of the season to rest them for the playoffs. I don't think anyone would tank to allow another school to get in, but I could see a team already booked for the tournament rest some players for the tournament. Then again, you don't see teams who have already secured at large bids take it easy in conference tournaments, because seeding is to important and they are playing for seed.

I thought the only reason to rest key players in a conference tournament was to spare them the embarrassment of losing.

(03-13-2013 11:54 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 11:33 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 10:52 AM)uab278 Wrote:  I know the argument is that conferences would have the season champion tank it in the conference tournament

I don't believe that for a second, and would laugh at anyone who tried to argue it.

I agree to an extent. I thought about pro teams who don't play starters at the end of the season to rest them for the playoffs. I don't think anyone would tank to allow another school to get in, but I could see a team already booked for the tournament rest some players for the tournament. Then again, you don't see teams who have already secured at large bids take it easy in conference tournaments, because seeding is to important and they are playing for seed.

That's true. But imagine the temptation if seeding doesn't matter. You're a bottom-tier conference with no shot of ever getting two teams into the tournament under any circumstance, and the highest seed any team from your conference would get might be 14 (or higher because this scenario requires more total teams in the tournament). If your regular season champ and tournament champ are the same team, you only get one in. But if they're different, you get two. What does that mean financially to those schools? It's not too terribly significant to SEC schools who could find that much money stashed in Saban's ridiculous hat. But you're telling me some conference wouldn't exploit that? It'd be throwing money away to get stuck with only one bid when you could have two. Considering some of the other absurd BS that goes on in the college sports money grab, you would laugh at that possibility?

I think it's a virtual certainty it would be discussed and would actually happen at some point in some conference. It wouldn't be the norm because most people have a basic sense of ethics, but it'd be more likely than not to occur at some point because human beings do crazy things for money. It is also one of the first reasons that is always thrown out to not do it that way (along with what 9911 says, of course, which is the best reason), so that gives it credibility as a possibility. I mean, seriously, you're telling me that a conference run by somebody with Wimp Sanderson's moral compass (and those people are already running the NCAA) wouldn't do this?