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OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
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cnyrocketfan Offline
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OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
I know it's not exactly a new question, but here goes: are the conference tournaments a good idea? I think this was asked in 1980, though I'd have to go through my old scrapbooks to see what was said and who said it when the MAC tournament got started. Congratulations to the Flames, but...

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03-10-2013 04:40 PM
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T4C8 Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
well, the play in games are for teams like these. cause even in csu won the game thye likely would have been a 16 seed
03-10-2013 05:48 PM
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T-Town Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
(03-10-2013 04:40 PM)cnyrocketfan Wrote:  I know it's not exactly a new question, but here goes: are the conference tournaments a good idea? I think this was asked in 1980, though I'd have to go through my old scrapbooks to see what was said and who said it when the MAC tournament got started. Congratulations to the Flames, but...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...8-to-ncaas

The fact that these tournaments produce BIG revenue dollars makes it totally irrelevant as to whether they are a good or bad idea from a purely sports perspective (much less any educational perspective of the student-athletics). A few conferences made big dollars off their tournaments even before the BIG TV dollars flooded the market. As far back as the 1960's (and starting in the 1950's) the ACC tourney was a very hot item and a very, very tough ticket. It was a big money maker for the member schools because the tourney tickets were all divided among the member schools who would only sell them to people who made significant contributions to the schools' athletic programs.....whatever the market would bear which was a lot for most of the member schools-----it was that hot of ticket back then.

Always remember that collegiate revenue sports are no longer just about college athletic competitions, they are all about competing for those BIG TV entertainment $$$$$ and also marketing the respective schools' "Brand Name" to potential students thru the success of their football or basketball teams in order to compete for all those of BIG Federal Student Loan $$$$$.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2013 07:15 PM by T-Town.)
03-10-2013 07:07 PM
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cnyrocketfan Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
I understand the finances for the so-called major conferences: conference tournaments undoubtedly make huge money for the ACC, Big Ten, and Big East, maybe a few of the other conferences. But while I'll openly admit that I haven't bothered to try find the financial numbers for the Big South, I can't imagine that a conference like that makes much money from a conference tournament. According to the box score from the Liberty-Charleston Southern championship game, the attendance there was 2,532.

In my world the best thing for some conferences is to drop the conference tournaments and give the regular season champion the bid. In my opinion, these conferences are best served by the best team going to the NCAA tournament (this isn't meant to be a complete list)

America East

Big South

MEAC

Northeast

SWAC

While I'm living in my idealistic (if not naive) world, as far as the MAC bid is concerned, have the winner of the East meet the winner of the West for the automatic bid. If there's a tie for a divisional lead at the end of the regular season, have the two teams play a game like the Central Michigan-UT game in 1979 to break the tie and determine who plays for the bid. Don't ask me what would happen if there's a 3-way tie (or more) for a divisional lead: I haven't thought it through that far.
03-11-2013 04:42 AM
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sterling1man Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
I sense allot of nervousness regarding the Lady Rockets not winning the MAC tournament.
It is understandable that after 12 years of not going to the NCAA big dance, no-one here wishes to see the Lady Rockets not win.
The MAC tournament is an excellent opportunity for Toledo to climb the rankings and get a better seeding.
This team is too good not to believe in.
The Lady Rockets deserve to win the tournament in style.
20 loss teams going to the Big Dance happen very rarely.
It will not happen in the MAC this year.
Toledo not going to the big dance will be a huge let down.
Somehow I believe the odds of that happening to be very slim.
Toledo will be going to the Big Dance this year.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 06:37 AM by sterling1man.)
03-11-2013 06:35 AM
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emanoh Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
I think what scares some this that even though we have an amazing 14 game win streak, we were in the hole by 11 to CMU late in the season. We blew it open with a 30-6 run, but nonetheless, that was a big spread to make up on an opposing team's home court. The girls are resilient enough to weather an obstacle like that, but if we meet CMU for a rubber match, who knows? BG can catch fire and has looked really good and really bad this year.

There's a lot of pressure on the team to pull out a MAC tourney victory. Great record, regular season championship, four great seniors, Naama's last year, etc. Plus I think the MAC wants us to win, we're the cream of the crop in a down MAC women's year. We're the conference's best hope to not embarass at the tourney at the NCAA's.

Let's keep it rolling in Cleveland and turn the Q into Savage East for a couple of days.
03-11-2013 07:39 AM
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Rocket Pirate Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
It's too bad for programs like Stony Brook and Middle Tennessee State. They have proven themselves over the course of the entire season, then have an unusual down night, and are now likely out of the running for an NCAA Tournament bid. What you do in 12 to 18 conference games over the course of a couple months should mean more than a single elimination exhibition showcase. As T-Town pointed out, the conference tournaments are all about getting money for the conferences and not for getting the conference's best team in the NCAA Tournament.

The Ivy League does it the right way.
03-11-2013 07:45 AM
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sterling1man Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
(03-11-2013 07:45 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  It's too bad for programs like Stony Brook and Middle Tennessee State. They have proven themselves over the course of the entire season, then have an unusual down night, and are now likely out of the running for an NCAA Tournament bid. What you do in 12 to 18 conference games over the course of a couple months should mean more than a single elimination exhibition showcase. As T-Town pointed out, the conference tournaments are all about getting money for the conferences and not for getting the conference's best team in the NCAA Tournament.

The Ivy League does it the right way.

I believe in the Toledo WBB team of this year.
They are the finest in the MAC and deserve to be ranked high in the Big Dance. There are many arguments in favor and against a tournament which decides it all, in smaller conferences which could mean an NCAA invitation or staying at home.

CMU is not going to beat the Lady Rockets again this year.
Naama is clutch and will not get into foul trouble.
I think the fans on this board should be more concerned that Naama gets proper protection walking between games to the hotel then about the fairness of a winner takes all tournament where the winner gets a top seed and plays less games.
At least every team feels they have a chance to goto the post season no matter how bad their season is.
Pressure seems to brings about the best in Naama (the NIT most valuable player in 2011.) Here is another chance to celebrate the Lady Rockets.
03-11-2013 11:11 AM
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T-Town Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
(03-11-2013 04:42 AM)cnyrocketfan Wrote:  I understand the finances for the so-called major conferences: conference tournaments undoubtedly make huge money for the ACC, Big Ten, and Big East, maybe a few of the other conferences. But while I'll openly admit that I haven't bothered to try find the financial numbers for the Big South, I can't imagine that a conference like that makes much money from a conference tournament. According to the box score from the Liberty-Charleston Southern championship game, the attendance there was 2,532.

In my world the best thing for some conferences is to drop the conference tournaments and give the regular season champion the bid. In my opinion, these conferences are best served by the best team going to the NCAA tournament (this isn't meant to be a complete list)

America East

Big South

MEAC

Northeast

SWAC

While I'm living in my idealistic (if not naive) world, as far as the MAC bid is concerned, have the winner of the East meet the winner of the West for the automatic bid. If there's a tie for a divisional lead at the end of the regular season, have the two teams play a game like the Central Michigan-UT game in 1979 to break the tie and determine who plays for the bid. Don't ask me what would happen if there's a 3-way tie (or more) for a divisional lead: I haven't thought it through that far.


I took your original post to mean conference tournaments in general, but with your clarification I see your point. However, having a single playoff game between the winners of the East and West divisions IS still a conference tournament, albeit a one game tournament, but a tournament nevertheless.

It is still all about money (and publicity) but the smaller conferences are almost always all one-bid conferences, so the question becomes: "is it more profitable to make sure your top team is in the tournament with a potential to pick up an extra NCAA payout "unit" or two, or to have your conference tournament and hope your best team is not upset?" as Rocket Pirate indicates happened to the women of MTSU and SUNY-Stony Brook.

In terms of the men's 2012 NCAA tournament their were 31 automatic qualifiers and 37 at large bids. Of the 37 at large bids, the top ten BIG conferences got 32 of those bids and the 21 Lesser conferences split the remaining 5 with 3 of those remaining 5 going to lesser conferences who had their conference commissioner (or associate commissioner) on the selection committee. The Big East with 8 teams in the 2012 tourney appeared in a total of 20 games which, over the 6 year total payout, will come to about $30,000,000. Ohio by playing 3 games earned a total 6 year payout of about $4,500,000 for the MAC. A conference with only one team that lost it first game will earn about $1,500,000 over the 6 year for it 2012 effort.

With those profits, I suspect that most of the "lesser" conferences will still opt for the conference tournament, because of the "I wanna be like Mike, syndrome" if for no other reason, and unfortunately just as buying a pair of way overpriced "Air Jordan's" is not going to make the average kid an NBA superstar, neither will it work for the "lesser" conferences.

As also pointed out by Rocket Pirate----the Ivy League is one of the very few Division I basketball programs who does not conduct a post season conference tournament. That is because the Ivy League teams are secure enough with their academic reputation, their elite clientele market, and their huge endowments that they do not feel any compulsion to chase the TV $$$$ or try to establish their "brand name" thru a sports team.

Finally, kudos to sterling1man for sniffing out the likely motive behind your original post at this specific time. I have to admit that connection never dawned on me. I will say that while nothing is guaranteed, I sense that the Lady Rockets are on a mission and will not be denied and I did NOT have that sense about the UT men's team that won the regular season back in 2006-2007 (?) but lost in the MAC tournament.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 11:49 AM by T-Town.)
03-11-2013 11:20 AM
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sterling1man Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
Finally, kudos to sterling1man for sniffing out the likely motive behind your original post at this specific time. I have to admit that connection never dawned on me. I will say that while nothing is guaranteed, I sense that the Lady Rockets are on a mission and will not be denied and I did NOT have that sense about the UT men's team that won the regular season back in 2006-2007 (?) but lost in the MAC tournament.
[/quote]

Thank-you for the complement.
Seems like in the MAC MBB the winner of the tournament is often not the the #1 rated team. Last year, with Ohio going three rounds and just missing the final 8, perhaps they represented the Mens MAC better then Akron might have.
I agree with your assertion,"It is about money", however the playoffs gives a MAC team like Toledo a chance to win it all. Something we do not have in FB.
Would have liked to see your MBB get a chance at post seasonal play, however I will be routing very hard for the Lady Rockets to go along way in the Big Dance. THe 2011 NIT tournament was an incredible showcase for the Lady Rockets. Would be wonderful to see Toledo crashing the top 16 and then top 8. Playing and winning two more tough games should help Toledo WBB get a better ranking and go further in the Big Dance. I believe the Lady Rockets deserve a better then #12 bracket rating this year.
03-11-2013 11:47 AM
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cnyrocketfan Offline
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RE: OT: A 20-loss team has won an automatic bid to the men's tourney
(03-11-2013 11:20 AM)T-Town Wrote:  However, having a single playoff game between the winners of the East and West divisions IS still a conference tournament, albeit a one game tournament, but a tournament nevertheless.





Finally, kudos to sterling1man for sniffing out the likely motive behind your original post at this specific time. I have to admit that connection never dawned on me. I will say that while nothing is guaranteed, I sense that the Lady Rockets are on a mission and will not be denied and I did NOT have that sense about the UT men's team that won the regular season back in 2006-2007 (?) but lost in the MAC tournament.

It's true that it's a tournament, but I think the divisions require that one game be played.




And the women's team might have been in the back of my mind when I made my original post. But while I'll be disappointed (that's an understatement) if the Rockets don't win the women's tournament, regarding the reason for this thread I won't have a complaint if Akron, Ball State, BG, Central Michigan or Miami earn the bid. But if either Buffalo or Western Michigan (both currently 11-19) put a streak together and end up getting an automatic bid with 19 losses, then I think that's an issue.
03-11-2013 03:05 PM
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