(03-12-2013 02:50 PM)MU88 Wrote:  Hybrids don't suck. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. The Valley has been a hybrid for more than 60 years. The conference has been very successful. From D-3 to D-1, the model has worked for many years. The most powerful and successful D-3 conference, the WIAC, is a hybrid. The mere fact that not all of your member schools play football, shouldn't matter all that much. Just because the 5 FBS power conferences and ESPN have ruined the Big East and many of the hybrids at the D-1 level, it doesn't mean the concept in and of itself is bad.

The fate of the Big East is a harbinger of things to come. In the future, all-sports conferences are going to rule at the top, while hybrids get ripped apart by infighting over petty issues and predatory expansion from the outside. The MVC isn't immune and the fallout will trickle down soon enough.

(03-12-2013 02:42 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  What's the fascination with Evansville? I do think they'd be more successful by joining the Horizon or OVC than they are in the MVC, but are they really that appealing to those conferences? If they are, many of us in the MVC will help them pack, I'm just trying to figure some things out.

Evansville is a good academic school, private (which is a plus for a number of leagues) and has a brand new 10,000-seat arena. The question is really more about why Evansville would ever willingly leave the MVC (which has never made sense to me). In all of the moves of conference realignment (and I'm talking about power conferences down to the smallest of the small), the instances where a school *willingly* changes conferences where it's a clear downgrade financially and exposure-wise are nil. The talk of the Horizon taking Evansville or any other MVC teams sounds like when the A-10 was trying to send stories through the news media back in November that they would be "willing" to expand to 21 schools to add in the group now known as the Catholic 7 (and will soon be known as the Big East in the great circle of life). Of course, we're seeing how that's turning out with the C7 raiding the A-10 back to the stone age.

(03-12-2013 03:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 02:42 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  What's the fascination with Evansville? I do think they'd be more successful by joining the Horizon or OVC than they are in the MVC, but are they really that appealing to those conferences? If they are, many of us in the MVC will help them pack, I'm just trying to figure some things out.

Evansville is a good academic school, private (which is a plus for a number of leagues) and has a brand new 10,000-seat arena. The question is really more about why Evansville would ever willingly leave the MVC (which has never made sense to me). In all of the moves of conference realignment (and I'm talking about power conferences down to the smallest of the small), the instances where a school *willingly* changes conferences where it's a clear downgrade financially and exposure-wise are nil. The talk of the Horizon taking Evansville or any other MVC teams sounds like when the A-10 was trying to send stories through the news media back in November that they would be "willing" to expand to 21 schools to add in the group now known as the Catholic 7 (and will soon be known as the Big East in the great circle of life). Of course, we're seeing how that's turning out with the C7 raiding the A-10 back to the stone age.

I agree. I don't think Evansville is going anywhere. I know many Valley fans would happily pack for them and help them out the door though...

Hybrids can work if you have the right mix. Wichita State has more in common with Missouri State and Illinois State than they do with a bunch of the Horizon League schools. Bradley is better all-sports member than Western Illinois would be.

(03-12-2013 10:21 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I took a quick look at the driving time for the OVC for Belmont. In the East, their longest trip is to Morehead St. 4 hrs. 15 mins Next is to EKU and Jacksonville St. Both 3 hours 45 mins. TTU is an hour and a half. TSU is 30 mins.

Looking at the west you have APSU at an hour and a half, UTM and Murray St are a little over 2 hrs. SE Mo State. Is 3 and a half and EIU and SIU are just about 5 hrs.

That means that most of the destinations are a day trip out and back. They don't even need to spring for hotels. To join the MVC, Belmont would add significant cost to the school or additional wear on the student athletes. Unless there is a significant payday involved, (I don't know) I doubt Belmont moves.

There is an increased payday involved (the MVC has much better TV contracts and NCAA payouts than the OVC). Belmont will take it if offered. For the MVC, the Nashville metro is an upgrade over Omaha metro, not to say that losing Creighton isn't a huge blow. Nashville also offers a potential bidding option for the conference tournament.

Belmont is one year removed from the Atlantic Sun, where travel was much more difficult than the MVC will be (4 Florida schools in the ASun).

(03-12-2013 04:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 10:21 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I took a quick look at the driving time for the OVC for Belmont. In the East, their longest trip is to Morehead St. 4 hrs. 15 mins Next is to EKU and Jacksonville St. Both 3 hours 45 mins. TTU is an hour and a half. TSU is 30 mins.

Looking at the west you have APSU at an hour and a half, UTM and Murray St are a little over 2 hrs. SE Mo State. Is 3 and a half and EIU and SIU are just about 5 hrs.

That means that most of the destinations are a day trip out and back. They don't even need to spring for hotels. To join the MVC, Belmont would add significant cost to the school or additional wear on the student athletes. Unless there is a significant payday involved, (I don't know) I doubt Belmont moves.

There is an increased payday involved (the MVC has much better TV contracts and NCAA payouts than the OVC). Belmont will take it if offered. For the MVC, the Nashville metro is an upgrade over Omaha metro, not to say that losing Creighton isn't a huge blow. Nashville also offers a potential bidding option for the conference tournament.

Belmont is one year removed from the Atlantic Sun, where travel was much more difficult than the MVC will be (4 Florida schools in the ASun).

We've tried for a long time to get the tournament moved out of STL at least on a rotation basis. Even if we add Belmont and Nashville, it won't go anywhere. I think there was a small chance that KC could have been in play the next round of negotiating had Creighton stayed, but unless we bring in Denver or some other team in the west, it will stay in STL for sure. STL has been dominated in attendance by the two schools farthest from it in Creighton and Wichita. I'd be shocked if the MVC decided to move it even farther from what will be the largest fan base left.

With all that said, having Nashville as a market may open up other TV possibilities down the road. Getting into other regional FSN networks or whatever. If nothing else, it would increase exposure for the conference as a whole.

I like Kansas City better but St. Louis isn't bad either. Missouri State don't buy many tickets early to Arch Madness because a)its an easy trip to St. Louis and just buy when we play and b) lots of alums in St. Louis. We had around 7k for the Indiana State championship game.

(03-12-2013 07:26 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 04:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 10:21 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I took a quick look at the driving time for the OVC for Belmont. In the East, their longest trip is to Morehead St. 4 hrs. 15 mins Next is to EKU and Jacksonville St. Both 3 hours 45 mins. TTU is an hour and a half. TSU is 30 mins.

Looking at the west you have APSU at an hour and a half, UTM and Murray St are a little over 2 hrs. SE Mo State. Is 3 and a half and EIU and SIU are just about 5 hrs.

That means that most of the destinations are a day trip out and back. They don't even need to spring for hotels. To join the MVC, Belmont would add significant cost to the school or additional wear on the student athletes. Unless there is a significant payday involved, (I don't know) I doubt Belmont moves.

There is an increased payday involved (the MVC has much better TV contracts and NCAA payouts than the OVC). Belmont will take it if offered. For the MVC, the Nashville metro is an upgrade over Omaha metro, not to say that losing Creighton isn't a huge blow. Nashville also offers a potential bidding option for the conference tournament.

Belmont is one year removed from the Atlantic Sun, where travel was much more difficult than the MVC will be (4 Florida schools in the ASun).

We've tried for a long time to get the tournament moved out of STL at least on a rotation basis. Even if we add Belmont and Nashville, it won't go anywhere. I think there was a small chance that KC could have been in play the next round of negotiating had Creighton stayed, but unless we bring in Denver or some other team in the west, it will stay in STL for sure. STL has been dominated in attendance by the two schools farthest from it in Creighton and Wichita. I'd be shocked if the MVC decided to move it even farther from what will be the largest fan base left.

With all that said, having Nashville as a market may open up other TV possibilities down the road. Getting into other regional FSN networks or whatever. If nothing else, it would increase exposure for the conference as a whole.

St. Louis would still seem to be the best centralized location for the MVC even if both Denver and Nashville end up getting added. Schools like SIU and Illinois State, whenever they're halfway decent, send a lot of fans to St. Louis, as well. "Arch Madness" is a great nickname for the tournament, too. No sense in messing with something that has been working pretty well overall.

(03-12-2013 09:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 07:26 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 04:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 10:21 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  I took a quick look at the driving time for the OVC for Belmont. In the East, their longest trip is to Morehead St. 4 hrs. 15 mins Next is to EKU and Jacksonville St. Both 3 hours 45 mins. TTU is an hour and a half. TSU is 30 mins.

Looking at the west you have APSU at an hour and a half, UTM and Murray St are a little over 2 hrs. SE Mo State. Is 3 and a half and EIU and SIU are just about 5 hrs.

That means that most of the destinations are a day trip out and back. They don't even need to spring for hotels. To join the MVC, Belmont would add significant cost to the school or additional wear on the student athletes. Unless there is a significant payday involved, (I don't know) I doubt Belmont moves.

There is an increased payday involved (the MVC has much better TV contracts and NCAA payouts than the OVC). Belmont will take it if offered. For the MVC, the Nashville metro is an upgrade over Omaha metro, not to say that losing Creighton isn't a huge blow. Nashville also offers a potential bidding option for the conference tournament.

Belmont is one year removed from the Atlantic Sun, where travel was much more difficult than the MVC will be (4 Florida schools in the ASun).

We've tried for a long time to get the tournament moved out of STL at least on a rotation basis. Even if we add Belmont and Nashville, it won't go anywhere. I think there was a small chance that KC could have been in play the next round of negotiating had Creighton stayed, but unless we bring in Denver or some other team in the west, it will stay in STL for sure. STL has been dominated in attendance by the two schools farthest from it in Creighton and Wichita. I'd be shocked if the MVC decided to move it even farther from what will be the largest fan base left.

With all that said, having Nashville as a market may open up other TV possibilities down the road. Getting into other regional FSN networks or whatever. If nothing else, it would increase exposure for the conference as a whole.

St. Louis would still seem to be the best centralized location for the MVC even if both Denver and Nashville end up getting added. Schools like SIU and Illinois State, whenever they're halfway decent, send a lot of fans to St. Louis, as well. "Arch Madness" is a great nickname for the tournament, too. No sense in messing with something that has been working pretty well overall.

I get that. The arguments when we had both CU and WSU was that they're forced to travel so far every year. And even if moving it to KC, nobody would have to travel farther than what CU and WSU do every year. Plus, STL sucks as a city.

And those IL schools only send people if they make it to Saturday or Sunday. KC is closer to half of the schools than STL is. KC has a better arena and atmosphere around it. With CU leaving, it'll probably never happen. Can't guarantee that KC as a city would embrace it, but it couldn't be any worse than STL. Most people and merchants are clueless and are utterly confused by what's going on.

But like I said, it'll stay in STL. It won't move any farther east unless WSU gets out. Even then, I wouldn't guarantee it would ever leave.

I bet if we expand its going to be one of the teams in the Chicago area - Valpo, Loyola, or UIC.

(03-13-2013 10:45 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I bet if we expand its going to be one of the teams in the Chicago area - Valpo, Loyola, or UIC.

From a basketball standpoint, I hope it's Valpo of those three.

(03-13-2013 02:28 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 10:45 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I bet if we expand its going to be one of the teams in the Chicago area - Valpo, Loyola, or UIC.

From a basketball standpoint, I hope it's Valpo of those three.

That would be my choice as well, not to mention they offer all of the MVC sports as well.