So, I've been listening and reading the positions from the left recently and I have come to the following conclusion.

We really don't pay for the services we get. We're a nation of cheapskates.


That being said do we REALLY need all these services and all the people administering the services?

and lets not get it twisted...those of us who pay the lion share of the taxes DO in fact pay for the services we receive. The other 50% or so don't. This is indisputable.

So, what is the solution? We can't tax the poor into abject poverty and starvation any more than we can reasonably ask someone to pay 40% of their income to the government. Both are crazy to me.

Now, I realize that no poor person will starve if they pay some taxes and people like me and others on here can afford another few percentage points but ultimately something has to give. So, what is it? Do we keep taxing the "working wealthy" into poverty or do we cut bureaucracy to save the most vital services for those who most need it?

It really bothers me how some people on here are ok with the government taking 40% of someones take home pay or raising taxes on me to give it to other people making it harder for me to raise the children I fathered and easier for someone else to raise kids I didn't father. It also bothers me that we think so many people need help. Maybe they do, but I've not seen one shred of evidence stating that if we cut spending on non-essential programs up to 20%(I just made this % up) people will starve or die in the streets. The problem as I see it is that we just can't agree on what programs are non-essential. Let me spell it out for you....every program we can't afford is non-essential. So, unless you're okay with surrendering your entire check to the government to pay for the services we have now you must look to reduce the outlays over the next 10-20 years to sustainable levels. I don't even want to run without debt, debt in and of itself isn't bad, as long as its manageable. Debt that consumes our entire GDP is f'ing crazy and furthermore we're on the road that leads to our entire GDP servicing that debt. Which really will lead to people dying in the streets and people starving.

So, our leftists will say that THEY'RE RICH they can afford it and the righties will say THE POOR ARE LEECHES and to be honest both are probably a little true so lets leave that out of it.

No one can reasonably argue that taxes will dig us out of this and likewise with regard to spending cuts. There can be no sacred cows, my money or your programs. Both deserve equal consideration...IMO.

and this thread wouldn't be complete without the obligatory FUC OBAMA post and the useless emoticons....

Now thats out of the way lets have a meaningful discussion.


one more thing. debt does matter. if debt didn't matter we wouldn't pay taxes...

1. Cut all federal budgets by 20%. Hold managment accountable to meeting targets using zero-based billing exercise and replace those that cannot.
2. End the Dept of Education. Cut funding to Dept of Agriculture by 50% - end electrification projects, subsidies to not produce, and loan programs. Cut funding to the DOL and HHS by 35% using criteria of item #1.
3. Overhaul federal retirement program to match realities of private sector. Don't interere when state/municipalities do the same.
4. Overhaul Social Security. Raise current retirement age to meet funding requirements. Treat as you would a bankruptcy (since it is) and allow non-retirement aged citizens to opt-out, receiving a % of lifetime conributions (35-40%) rolled directly into a 401k account and exclusion waiver from receipt of SS benefits in the future.
5. Get completely out of the United Nations. End all funding and program support. If they want to stay in New York, do not provide any support for diplomatic movement around the city.
6. Repeal the Health-Care Bill. Encourage portability across state lines and pooling of small company employees to receive better premiums.
7. Get out of Afghanistan.
8. Place annual and lifetime benefit cap on the recipient class benefits. Make sum total of Welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid reimbursements 20% below minimum wage for 2040 hours annually. Provide incentive at one-year and five-year anniversary of freedom from those programs.
9. Amend constitution to prohibit those receiving Medicaid, Welfare, Foodstamps, and Section 8 housing from participation in federal elections. Do not interfere with states when doing the same. Either you contribute to society or you do not. Yes, this is controversial.
10. Build the border fence....without walkways on bridges.
11. Allow 6-month period for all illegals to self-declare their status. For those who participate, expedite a new temporary worker visa for their return and collect all taxes from these folks. Deport the rest with no opportunity to ever legally enter the US again.
12. Provide no entitlements to illegals or those on aforementioned temp worker visas.
13. End the federal CZAR nominations. If an agency needs a head, let them be approved through the Congressional process like othe appointees.
14. Place limts on what Congress can do during any lame-duck period.....namely items requiring funding and federal mandates.
15. Limit Congressional members to six-terms (House) and two terms (Senate) and overhaul/reduce congressional retirement perks.
16. Get out of the automotive, health-care, banking, and student aid businesses. Blow up Fannie Mae an Feddie Mac and sell of assets to where they belong - the private sector.
17. End gender and race-based quota systems for government employees.
18. Provide congressional oversight of agencies such as EPA to prevent unelected government officials from enacting mandates without a check and balance - i.e. naming CO2 as a priority polluatnt that needs taxing and government control.
19. Provide 4-year college tuition for anyone who honorably enlists and serves in the armed forces for 4 or more years. Use existing GI bill structure to build up funding for living expenses, etc during the post-military education years.
20. Expedite renewal of NRC permits and encourage growth of additional nuclear capability on existing sites (already started, but a VERY slow process). Set reasonable target to increase electrical generation from nukes by 50% over 15 year period. Sweden and France do it right, here.
21.Provide curbs around the EPA's policy-making abilities to ensure some sort of Congressional oversight. This agency is out of control and counter to sensible free-market growth. Placing limits on CO2 as a pollutant when the scientific community is nowhere near united on Global Warming is reckless and economically harmful.
22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

(03-05-2013 10:06 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  1. Cut all federal budgets by 20%. Hold managment accountable to meeting targets using zero-based billing exercise and replace those that cannot.
2. End the Dept of Education. Cut funding to Dept of Agriculture by 50% - end electrification projects, subsidies to not produce, and loan programs. Cut funding to the DOL and HHS by 35% using criteria of item #1.
3. Overhaul federal retirement program to match realities of private sector. Don't interere when state/municipalities do the same.
4. Overhaul Social Security. Raise current retirement age to meet funding requirements. Treat as you would a bankruptcy (since it is) and allow non-retirement aged citizens to opt-out, receiving a % of lifetime conributions (35-40%) rolled directly into a 401k account and exclusion waiver from receipt of SS benefits in the future.
5. Get completely out of the United Nations. End all funding and program support. If they want to stay in New York, do not provide any support for diplomatic movement around the city.
6. Repeal the Health-Care Bill. Encourage portability across state lines and pooling of small company employees to receive better premiums.
7. Get out of Afghanistan.
8. Place annual and lifetime benefit cap on the recipient class benefits. Make sum total of Welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid reimbursements 20% below minimum wage for 2040 hours annually. Provide incentive at one-year and five-year anniversary of freedom from those programs.
9. Amend constitution to prohibit those receiving Medicaid, Welfare, Foodstamps, and Section 8 housing from participation in federal elections. Do not interfere with states when doing the same. Either you contribute to society or you do not. Yes, this is controversial.
10. Build the border fence....without walkways on bridges.
11. Allow 6-month period for all illegals to self-declare their status. For those who participate, expedite a new temporary worker visa for their return and collect all taxes from these folks. Deport the rest with no opportunity to ever legally enter the US again.
12. Provide no entitlements to illegals or those on aforementioned temp worker visas.
13. End the federal CZAR nominations. If an agency needs a head, let them be approved through the Congressional process like othe appointees.
14. Place limts on what Congress can do during any lame-duck period.....namely items requiring funding and federal mandates.
15. Limit Congressional members to six-terms (House) and two terms (Senate) and overhaul/reduce congressional retirement perks.
16. Get out of the automotive, health-care, banking, and student aid businesses. Blow up Fannie Mae an Feddie Mac and sell of assets to where they belong - the private sector.
17. End gender and race-based quota systems for government employees.
18. Provide congressional oversight of agencies such as EPA to prevent unelected government officials from enacting mandates without a check and balance - i.e. naming CO2 as a priority polluatnt that needs taxing and government control.
19. Provide 4-year college tuition for anyone who honorably enlists and serves in the armed forces for 4 or more years. Use existing GI bill structure to build up funding for living expenses, etc during the post-military education years.
20. Expedite renewal of NRC permits and encourage growth of additional nuclear capability on existing sites (already started, but a VERY slow process). Set reasonable target to increase electrical generation from nukes by 50% over 15 year period. Sweden and France do it right, here.
21.Provide curbs around the EPA's policy-making abilities to ensure some sort of Congressional oversight. This agency is out of control and counter to sensible free-market growth. Placing limits on CO2 as a pollutant when the scientific community is nowhere near united on Global Warming is reckless and economically harmful.
22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

I can agree with #7. THe rest are

What would your approach be Robert?

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

(03-06-2013 02:22 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 10:06 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  1. Cut all federal budgets by 20%. Hold managment accountable to meeting targets using zero-based billing exercise and replace those that cannot.
2. End the Dept of Education. Cut funding to Dept of Agriculture by 50% - end electrification projects, subsidies to not produce, and loan programs. Cut funding to the DOL and HHS by 35% using criteria of item #1.
3. Overhaul federal retirement program to match realities of private sector. Don't interere when state/municipalities do the same.
4. Overhaul Social Security. Raise current retirement age to meet funding requirements. Treat as you would a bankruptcy (since it is) and allow non-retirement aged citizens to opt-out, receiving a % of lifetime conributions (35-40%) rolled directly into a 401k account and exclusion waiver from receipt of SS benefits in the future.
5. Get completely out of the United Nations. End all funding and program support. If they want to stay in New York, do not provide any support for diplomatic movement around the city.
6. Repeal the Health-Care Bill. Encourage portability across state lines and pooling of small company employees to receive better premiums.
7. Get out of Afghanistan.
8. Place annual and lifetime benefit cap on the recipient class benefits. Make sum total of Welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid reimbursements 20% below minimum wage for 2040 hours annually. Provide incentive at one-year and five-year anniversary of freedom from those programs.
9. Amend constitution to prohibit those receiving Medicaid, Welfare, Foodstamps, and Section 8 housing from participation in federal elections. Do not interfere with states when doing the same. Either you contribute to society or you do not. Yes, this is controversial.
10. Build the border fence....without walkways on bridges.
11. Allow 6-month period for all illegals to self-declare their status. For those who participate, expedite a new temporary worker visa for their return and collect all taxes from these folks. Deport the rest with no opportunity to ever legally enter the US again.
12. Provide no entitlements to illegals or those on aforementioned temp worker visas.
13. End the federal CZAR nominations. If an agency needs a head, let them be approved through the Congressional process like othe appointees.
14. Place limts on what Congress can do during any lame-duck period.....namely items requiring funding and federal mandates.
15. Limit Congressional members to six-terms (House) and two terms (Senate) and overhaul/reduce congressional retirement perks.
16. Get out of the automotive, health-care, banking, and student aid businesses. Blow up Fannie Mae an Feddie Mac and sell of assets to where they belong - the private sector.
17. End gender and race-based quota systems for government employees.
18. Provide congressional oversight of agencies such as EPA to prevent unelected government officials from enacting mandates without a check and balance - i.e. naming CO2 as a priority polluatnt that needs taxing and government control.
19. Provide 4-year college tuition for anyone who honorably enlists and serves in the armed forces for 4 or more years. Use existing GI bill structure to build up funding for living expenses, etc during the post-military education years.
20. Expedite renewal of NRC permits and encourage growth of additional nuclear capability on existing sites (already started, but a VERY slow process). Set reasonable target to increase electrical generation from nukes by 50% over 15 year period. Sweden and France do it right, here.
21.Provide curbs around the EPA's policy-making abilities to ensure some sort of Congressional oversight. This agency is out of control and counter to sensible free-market growth. Placing limits on CO2 as a pollutant when the scientific community is nowhere near united on Global Warming is reckless and economically harmful.
22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

I can agree with #7. THe rest are

Most of them make good common sense.

(03-06-2013 06:57 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  What would your approach be Robert?

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

Well, you certainly don't give Wall Street most/all the SS money. Raising the SS age will hurt those that do manual labor because they most likely won't be able to work that long not to mention, it keeps needed jobs filled longer. You don't eliminate important departments but cut them through attrition. Cutting Medicaid would hurt many seniors(talk about death panels). Eliminating voting rights for those on welfare is wrong(and probably unconstitutional.

(03-06-2013 11:50 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 02:22 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-05-2013 10:06 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  1. Cut all federal budgets by 20%. Hold managment accountable to meeting targets using zero-based billing exercise and replace those that cannot.
2. End the Dept of Education. Cut funding to Dept of Agriculture by 50% - end electrification projects, subsidies to not produce, and loan programs. Cut funding to the DOL and HHS by 35% using criteria of item #1.
3. Overhaul federal retirement program to match realities of private sector. Don't interere when state/municipalities do the same.
4. Overhaul Social Security. Raise current retirement age to meet funding requirements. Treat as you would a bankruptcy (since it is) and allow non-retirement aged citizens to opt-out, receiving a % of lifetime conributions (35-40%) rolled directly into a 401k account and exclusion waiver from receipt of SS benefits in the future.
5. Get completely out of the United Nations. End all funding and program support. If they want to stay in New York, do not provide any support for diplomatic movement around the city.
6. Repeal the Health-Care Bill. Encourage portability across state lines and pooling of small company employees to receive better premiums.
7. Get out of Afghanistan.
8. Place annual and lifetime benefit cap on the recipient class benefits. Make sum total of Welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid reimbursements 20% below minimum wage for 2040 hours annually. Provide incentive at one-year and five-year anniversary of freedom from those programs.
9. Amend constitution to prohibit those receiving Medicaid, Welfare, Foodstamps, and Section 8 housing from participation in federal elections. Do not interfere with states when doing the same. Either you contribute to society or you do not. Yes, this is controversial.
10. Build the border fence....without walkways on bridges.
11. Allow 6-month period for all illegals to self-declare their status. For those who participate, expedite a new temporary worker visa for their return and collect all taxes from these folks. Deport the rest with no opportunity to ever legally enter the US again.
12. Provide no entitlements to illegals or those on aforementioned temp worker visas.
13. End the federal CZAR nominations. If an agency needs a head, let them be approved through the Congressional process like othe appointees.
14. Place limts on what Congress can do during any lame-duck period.....namely items requiring funding and federal mandates.
15. Limit Congressional members to six-terms (House) and two terms (Senate) and overhaul/reduce congressional retirement perks.
16. Get out of the automotive, health-care, banking, and student aid businesses. Blow up Fannie Mae an Feddie Mac and sell of assets to where they belong - the private sector.
17. End gender and race-based quota systems for government employees.
18. Provide congressional oversight of agencies such as EPA to prevent unelected government officials from enacting mandates without a check and balance - i.e. naming CO2 as a priority polluatnt that needs taxing and government control.
19. Provide 4-year college tuition for anyone who honorably enlists and serves in the armed forces for 4 or more years. Use existing GI bill structure to build up funding for living expenses, etc during the post-military education years.
20. Expedite renewal of NRC permits and encourage growth of additional nuclear capability on existing sites (already started, but a VERY slow process). Set reasonable target to increase electrical generation from nukes by 50% over 15 year period. Sweden and France do it right, here.
21.Provide curbs around the EPA's policy-making abilities to ensure some sort of Congressional oversight. This agency is out of control and counter to sensible free-market growth. Placing limits on CO2 as a pollutant when the scientific community is nowhere near united on Global Warming is reckless and economically harmful.
22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

I can agree with #7. THe rest are

Most of them make good common sense.

If you are an idiot, sure, they all sound like great common sense ideas.

(03-06-2013 12:22 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 06:57 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  What would your approach be Robert?

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

Well, you certainly don't give Wall Street most/all the SS money. Raising the SS age will hurt those that do manual labor because they most likely won't be able to work that long not to mention, it keeps needed jobs filled longer. You don't eliminate important departments but cut them through attrition. Cutting Medicaid would hurt many seniors(talk about death panels). Eliminating voting rights for those on welfare is wrong(and probably unconstitutional.

Take the Fed out of Wall St first to allow for a market correction and putting SS into private hands and investments isn't all that terrible of an idea.
SS benefit ages could be put on a sliding scale to allow for industry average careers.
I don't understand your logic about a raised SS age keeping needed jobs filled. If the older population can and chooses to work, let them. The longer they are productive and paying into the system, the less they will rely on it.
There are plenty of departments that can be eliminated. Dept. of Education is a perfect example. There is no reason the states can't manage education more efficiently than the federal govt.
Any cuts to medicaid would have to be done in such a way that those currently on it are continued to be serviced by it or weaned off onto another appropriate plan whether it be private or public.
As for eliminating voting rights for those on welfare, I'm undecided. Perhaps those on the system long-term could be restricted, but just because both wage-earners in a household happen to lose their jobs in an election year shouldn't keep them from voting. I'd rather see voting rights tied to taxes in some way.

Long and short of it is that none of these ideas are inherently bad, nor are the solutions as inherently simple as ODU proposed. To dismiss them so quickly is irresponsible. Real cuts will have to be made one day as opposed to reductions in spending increases. Wouldn't you rather they be discussed and planned for instead of happening suddenly out of necessity?

(03-05-2013 10:06 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

Yes. All humanitarian foreign aid could and should be managed by private charity groups (both religious and secular). I submit that there may be those rare special occasions when a particularly horrific natural disaster strikes - i.e., Japanese tidal wave - that the govenment might kick in some aid. But all in all, government "aid" is suspect and is usually attached with political motives, its recipients are questionable, and it rarely reaches the people it's supposed to help.

On the flip side, end all embargos as well. i.e., It should be up to the individual whether they want to do business with a Cuban business. Not "decided" for them by the government.

I appreciate those that are giving thoughtful responses and challenges to the slate I proposed. This, quite honestly, is a debate that needs to be had nationwide if a consensus is ever going to be reached on how to deal with this debt problem.

Feel free to recommend changes, edits, additions, deletions....maybe we can wrap it up in a pretty bow and each mail it to our congressmen!

(03-06-2013 12:22 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Well, you certainly don't give Wall Street most/all the SS money. Raising the SS age will hurt those that do manual labor because they most likely won't be able to work that long not to mention, it keeps needed jobs filled longer. You don't eliminate important departments but cut them through attrition. Cutting Medicaid would hurt many seniors(talk about death panels). Eliminating voting rights for those on welfare is wrong(and probably unconstitutional.

Huh... Obama told us he could cut medicaid without hurting seniors.

It CAN obviously be done by eliminating unnecessary beauracracy and inefficiencies without impacting outcomes. If the argument is that there IS no inefficiency or unnecessary beauracracy, you haven't worked in healthcare... but I digress. For some reason, the left thinks that people who USED to make 250k working 50 hours a week will be just as willing to work 60 hours for the same 250k, or take 225k for the same 50 hours (Obamacare), or run through 20 patients rather than 15 during their 12 hour shift, without affecting the care delivered. I'm just not sure where that belief comes from.

The way to re-engage "the poor" in the process, regardless of HOW you define "poor" is to offer them choices. Right now, their choices are to vote left and get something they may or may not want/need/value, or to vote right and get nothing. It should come as absolutely no surprise that they vote left... and that politicians who otherwise lean right ALSO promise to increase spending... which means there is ZERO incentive whatsoever for any politician in anything but the wealthiest districts to cut spending, or even be particularly efficient with it.

The mechanism would be quite complex, but the procedure would be along these lines....

Let's say that the typical "poor" family gets $10,000 in support. That support obviously costs more like $13,000 to deliver... but it is $10,000 to them. It includes things like foodstamps and rent subsidies and other things. Now, a politician comes in and promises a free cell phone. For simplicity, let's assume this is a $50/month benefit that costs the government $60 to administer. The government beauracrats would argue that without the government's negotiation skills, it would be $60 anyway... but that is immaterial because it is STILL a $60 cost to the people. Even if you didn't want a cell-phone, why would you turn it down? You could "sell" it to an illegal alien for $20/month, and spend that $20 on something you want. Thus, the government has just spend $60 to give you $20. Why don't we let them "opt out" of that cell phone and get a $20 tax credit instead? Rather than encourage 18yr olds to get pregnant and have their own apartment because they get more benefits if they do that, why don't we let them choose to stay at home and get somewhat less, but more flexible benefits? Bottom line, they might prefer $8,000 in "the aid they want" to $10,000 in aid that they may not want. If the mix is $5,000 rent and $5,000 food (for simplicity), they might prefer $8,000 in food and zero in rent if they live at home. WHy shouldn't we encourage this?

Owl 69/70 has made a proposal like this involving a tax pre-fund and others have done it using VAT... but there is NO reason we couldn't accomplish this. ALl you have to do is study the black market for these things to see what the trade-off is, and how many people are making choices that the black market makers rather than the taxpayers takes advantage of.

(03-06-2013 01:37 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  I appreciate those that are giving thoughtful responses and challenges to the slate I proposed. This, quite honestly, is a debate that needs to be had nationwide if a consensus is ever going to be reached on how to deal with this debt problem.

Feel free to recommend changes, edits, additions, deletions....maybe we can wrap it up in a pretty bow and each mail it to our congressmen!

Given that most of the responses have been from the loons on the far right, these crazy ideas will never make it to the Senate(if they get past Congress-some of the ideas are nuttier than a Payday bar that not even some rightwingers would vote for it).

(03-06-2013 02:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Given that most of the responses have been from the loons on the far right, these crazy ideas will never make it to the Senate(if they get past Congress-some of the ideas are nuttier than a Payday bar that not even some rightwingers would vote for it).

Have your leftist brethren somehow been disenfranchised from posting their responses?

(03-06-2013 02:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 02:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Given that most of the responses have been from the loons on the far right, these crazy ideas will never make it to the Senate(if they get past Congress-some of the ideas are nuttier than a Payday bar that not even some rightwingers would vote for it).

Have your leftist brethren somehow been disenfranchised from posting their responses?

They probably died laughing from how stupid most of the crap is so they can no longer post.

(03-06-2013 02:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 02:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Given that most of the responses have been from the loons on the far right, these crazy ideas will never make it to the Senate(if they get past Congress-some of the ideas are nuttier than a Payday bar that not even some rightwingers would vote for it).

Have your leftist brethren somehow been disenfranchised from posting their responses?

They're just hoping the "Free Stuff" train keeps rolling. Hell, they are all for printing more money and sending them more benefits......

(03-06-2013 02:25 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 02:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 02:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Given that most of the responses have been from the loons on the far right, these crazy ideas will never make it to the Senate(if they get past Congress-some of the ideas are nuttier than a Payday bar that not even some rightwingers would vote for it).

Have your leftist brethren somehow been disenfranchised from posting their responses?

They probably died laughing from how stupid most of the crap is so they can no longer post.

You can disagree with the policies, Robert... but as you and your brethren have offered no alternative, you're just being a nuisance yourself, not even worth laughiing at.

SO far, your contribution is:

Well, you certainly don't give Wall Street most/all the SS money.

I'll forgive for a moment that you don't know the difference between "wall street" and "the economy".... but does it not bother you in the least that the rate of return on "the economy" is far in excess of the growth of Social security, and at a time when we're talking about reducing social security, "wall street" is at all time highs? The government does poorly when the domestic economy is weak because domestic reciepts are down. "wall street" isn't relegated to only OUR economy, but has a long and successful track record of making money. If you don't like the idea, fine.... however, you can't support that decision from a financial, but merely from an an emotional perspective.


Raising the SS age will hurt those that do manual labor because they most likely won't be able to work that long not to mention, it keeps needed jobs filled longer.


To point one, People also live longer so they can work longer. I'd hope that someone at 65 would reach a supervisory, rather than labor intensive point in their careers.... but Obama has proposed this very thing... and I don't recall you calling it stupid when HE suggested it.

You don't eliminate important departments but cut them through attrition.

maybe we just differ on how important they are. You seem to agree on reducing them, so where is the real complaint?

Cutting Medicaid would hurt many seniors(talk about death panels).

As I said, Obama doesn't agree with you

Eliminating voting rights for those on welfare is wrong(and probably unconstitutional.

The poster admitted it was controversial. I restated the problem and offered an alternative solution... and mentioned similar proposals from at least two other "righties"....

you've offered????

(03-06-2013 03:01 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Eliminating voting rights for those on welfare is wrong(and probably unconstitutional.

The poster admitted it was controversial. I restated the problem and offered an alternative solution... and mentioned similar proposals from at least two other "righties"....

you've offered????

And the original post stated an Amendment would be needed. And the counter-argument of those recently unemployed makes sense.....need a mechanism to differentiate the chronically-dependent from the infrequently dependent, and some basis in tax receipts makes sense.

bump

(03-05-2013 10:06 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  1. Cut all federal budgets by 20%. Hold managment accountable to meeting targets using zero-based billing exercise and replace those that cannot.
2. End the Dept of Education. Cut funding to Dept of Agriculture by 50% - end electrification projects, subsidies to not produce, and loan programs. Cut funding to the DOL and HHS by 35% using criteria of item #1.
3. Overhaul federal retirement program to match realities of private sector. Don't interere when state/municipalities do the same.
4. Overhaul Social Security. Raise current retirement age to meet funding requirements. Treat as you would a bankruptcy (since it is) and allow non-retirement aged citizens to opt-out, receiving a % of lifetime conributions (35-40%) rolled directly into a 401k account and exclusion waiver from receipt of SS benefits in the future.
5. Get completely out of the United Nations. End all funding and program support. If they want to stay in New York, do not provide any support for diplomatic movement around the city.
6. Repeal the Health-Care Bill. Encourage portability across state lines and pooling of small company employees to receive better premiums.
7. Get out of Afghanistan.
8. Place annual and lifetime benefit cap on the recipient class benefits. Make sum total of Welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps, and Medicaid reimbursements 20% below minimum wage for 2040 hours annually. Provide incentive at one-year and five-year anniversary of freedom from those programs.
9. Amend constitution to prohibit those receiving Medicaid, Welfare, Foodstamps, and Section 8 housing from participation in federal elections. Do not interfere with states when doing the same. Either you contribute to society or you do not. Yes, this is controversial.
10. Build the border fence....without walkways on bridges.
11. Allow 6-month period for all illegals to self-declare their status. For those who participate, expedite a new temporary worker visa for their return and collect all taxes from these folks. Deport the rest with no opportunity to ever legally enter the US again.
12. Provide no entitlements to illegals or those on aforementioned temp worker visas.
13. End the federal CZAR nominations. If an agency needs a head, let them be approved through the Congressional process like othe appointees.
14. Place limts on what Congress can do during any lame-duck period.....namely items requiring funding and federal mandates.
15. Limit Congressional members to six-terms (House) and two terms (Senate) and overhaul/reduce congressional retirement perks.
16. Get out of the automotive, health-care, banking, and student aid businesses. Blow up Fannie Mae an Feddie Mac and sell of assets to where they belong - the private sector.
17. End gender and race-based quota systems for government employees.
18. Provide congressional oversight of agencies such as EPA to prevent unelected government officials from enacting mandates without a check and balance - i.e. naming CO2 as a priority polluatnt that needs taxing and government control.
19. Provide 4-year college tuition for anyone who honorably enlists and serves in the armed forces for 4 or more years. Use existing GI bill structure to build up funding for living expenses, etc during the post-military education years.
20. Expedite renewal of NRC permits and encourage growth of additional nuclear capability on existing sites (already started, but a VERY slow process). Set reasonable target to increase electrical generation from nukes by 50% over 15 year period. Sweden and France do it right, here.
21.Provide curbs around the EPA's policy-making abilities to ensure some sort of Congressional oversight. This agency is out of control and counter to sensible free-market growth. Placing limits on CO2 as a pollutant when the scientific community is nowhere near united on Global Warming is reckless and economically harmful.
22. Reduce Foreign Aid by 70%.

These are all fantastic ideas. You righties need to push this really, really hard and try to get all of it written into the GOPer platform.