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Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 12:34 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 12:17 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 12:00 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 10:45 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  No reason why a bigger MAC couldn't succeed.
Quote:

A leaner MAC may not be a bad thing.

Are you suggesting we drop a program or two?

No. I am saying if the MAC split it might not be a bad thing.

As for dropping programs, the higher ed bubble may take care of that:

Akron joined in 1992, and the conferences has looked similar for 20 years. Buff, NIU and Marshall were significant, but not major changes.

20 years from now, I predict that won't be the case.

It may go back to a world where just big flagships and successful private schools have access. The problem is that few if any mid majors are self funding (usually they use student fees and state aid) so as things get pinched eventually athletics will find it's budget on the block.
03-01-2013 12:55 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 12:39 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 12:34 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 12:17 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 12:00 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 10:45 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  No reason why a bigger MAC couldn't succeed.
Quote:

A leaner MAC may not be a bad thing.

Are you suggesting we drop a program or two?

No. I am saying if the MAC split it might not be a bad thing.

As for dropping programs, the higher ed bubble may take care of that:

Akron joined in 1992, and the conferences has looked similar for 20 years. Buff, NIU and Marshall were significant, but not major changes.

20 years from now, I predict that won't be the case.

Care to make any prediction, ie what schools will feel impact of the higher ed bubble you reference? I have had similar thoughts but don't know enough about each of the individual programs to make a full on guess.

I believe it will be more up to the states. I think entire universities may be contracted, or changed in some substantive way.

Putting on my ruthless, impartial Neutron Jack hat, I'd target





<spoilers>












EMU and BGSU first.

EMU is in a suburb of a declining metropolitan area, and is in the shadow of the flagship university.

BG is a rural campus, just 20 mi from a comparable university, one that has medical and engineering programs. Other than the school of Technology, BG's strengths offer little toward the economic development of the surrounding area.

I could believe something might happen involving both Kent and Cleve State, but both might have the clout to continue.
03-01-2013 12:58 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Kent will be fine because of how it's spread out... Klout is everything, it's why smAlbany is trying to get all the way up to FBS before the bubble pops.

I think your initial speculation is as good as any. Being spitting distance to a similar state school
03-01-2013 01:00 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
EMU and BG were actually the first two that popped into my head but I didn't know if I had all the facts. Interesting that those are the two you threw out as well.
03-01-2013 01:09 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 01:09 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  EMU and BG were actually the first two that popped into my head but I didn't know if I had all the facts. Interesting that those are the two you threw out as well.

I will say that solutions can take a funny turn whether they be true market-based solutions or political ones.

For example, given certain politics, instead of contracting EMU, it might make more economic sense to pare down what UM offers, make it very exclusive...and expensive, and get rid of all the chaff of overpaid genders studies, sociology, social work etc departments.

And by "get rid of" I mean send to low-cost EMU.

Thus, EMU actually grows, but Mich saves money. Still, Mich saves even more money if EMU lowers its overhead by dropping sports.

It's a possibility.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 01:33 PM by DrTorch.)
03-01-2013 01:32 PM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Can't we all just warm our hands over the flames of the fallen Big East without all of the MAC doomsday talk. The MAC is having a great decade in football, NIU just BCS busted, turn the frowns upside down please...
03-01-2013 07:50 PM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #27
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 07:50 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  Can't we all just warm our hands over the flames of the fallen Big East without all of the MAC doomsday talk. The MAC is having a great decade in football, NIU just BCS busted, turn the frowns upside down please...

Yeah, after NIU went to a BCS game and 6 other MAC teams went bowling maybe we should wait before we should worry about a downturn in our football future. 03-idea
03-02-2013 05:45 AM
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Lolly Popp Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
EAST COAST BREAKAWAY NORTH
UMass \ UConn
Albany \ Stony Brook
Temple \ Delaware

EAST COAST BREAKAWAY SOUTH
Towson \ James Madison
Old Dominion \ East Carolina
USF \ UCF

FORMER CUSA OPPONENTS EAST
Cincinnati \ Memphis
Marshall \ UNC Charlotte
FAU \ FIU

FORMER CUSA OPPONENTS WEST
Southern Mississippi \ Tulane
Houston \ Rice
SMU \ Tulsa
03-03-2013 04:55 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Albany \ Stony Brook both in the same FBS conference this decade...

Dude pass over whatever you're having..
03-03-2013 09:18 PM
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Steve1981 Online
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Post: #30
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 11:07 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 10:41 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I wonder if UMass hadn't joined the MAC would they have been a candidate?

All of the reported 12 schools I believe are private (and certainly UMass isn't).

UMass might have been a nice add to go with St. Johns, Villa Nova, Seton Hall and G'town.

Or maybe there would be enough 'east' in the Big East????

No UMass would in no way have been a candidate for the C7 league
Not that it matters, but we would have been in the discussion. Nova also places in the CAA(A10/Yankee Conference) for Football. We usually play a Big East team whether it's scheduled, in the NIT or in a tournament like this year.
03-03-2013 10:32 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-03-2013 10:32 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 11:07 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 10:41 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I wonder if UMass hadn't joined the MAC would they have been a candidate?

All of the reported 12 schools I believe are private (and certainly UMass isn't).

UMass might have been a nice add to go with St. Johns, Villa Nova, Seton Hall and G'town.

Or maybe there would be enough 'east' in the Big East????

No UMass would in no way have been a candidate for the C7 league
Not that it matters, but we would have been in the discussion. Nova also places in the CAA(A10/Yankee Conference) for Football. We usually play a Big East team whether it's scheduled, in the NIT or in a tournament like this year.

No... You would not have, and that's not a dig at UMass. I say no way because the C7 seems way more interested in institutional identity than name recognition.

There are enough small to medium private colleges out there that blow the doors off of UMass in terms of hoops over hte past 10 years..
03-03-2013 10:34 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Quote:The $100 million total is a combination of nearly 70 million dollars the Big East has and will collect in exit fee money from schools that have left or have announced they are leaving and another total of approximately $30 million which will come to the Big East offices from the NCAA as “unit” shares for conference teams participation in the NCAA men’s basketball tournament.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5423

The BE is liquidating. Schools like Tulane, Memphis and SMU who thought they were joining the BE to participate in the 3 million per year basketball fund just got hosed.

I'm wondering now if UConn and Temple are going to try to gain admission to the Atlantic 10 in basketball since at least there they would have access to NCAA tourney credits and low travel costs. The A10 is desperate enough that they would accept the two schools with open arms.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 02:52 AM by Louis Kitton.)
03-04-2013 02:52 AM
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pono Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 01:32 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-01-2013 01:09 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  EMU and BG were actually the first two that popped into my head but I didn't know if I had all the facts. Interesting that those are the two you threw out as well.

I will say that solutions can take a funny turn whether they be true market-based solutions or political ones.

For example, given certain politics, instead of contracting EMU, it might make more economic sense to pare down what UM offers, make it very exclusive...and expensive, and get rid of all the chaff of overpaid genders studies, sociology, social work etc departments.

And by "get rid of" I mean send to low-cost EMU.

Thus, EMU actually grows, but Mich saves money. Still, Mich saves even more money if EMU lowers its overhead by dropping sports.

It's a possibility.

You do realize that Michigan is home to many of the largest philanthropic foundations in the US. The Ford Found, Kresge Found, Kellogg Found, etc... support a huge amount of the non-profit community based programs and initiatives around the country and those foundations are tightly connected to the Univ of Michigan. So, gutting "the chaff", which I guess means any academic program sorta connected to leftist scholarship or issues of social inequality, and sending the skeletons to EMU would essentially gut the only prestigious and influential power structure in Michigan not decimated by 35 year of economic contraction. Just google Kresge and Univ of Mich to get a sense of how much they invest in the Michigan public education systems, and see if gutting their base in the system still makes sense.
03-04-2013 04:09 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-01-2013 07:50 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  Can't we all just warm our hands over the flames of the fallen Big East without all of the MAC doomsday talk. The MAC is having a great decade in football, NIU just BCS busted, turn the frowns upside down please...

I wasn't just writing about football.
03-04-2013 08:35 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Whether through incompetence or remarkable foresight, how awesome has the MAC been throughout this re-alignment BS?
03-04-2013 09:47 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-04-2013 09:47 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Whether through incompetence or remarkable foresight, how awesome has the MAC been throughout this re-alignment BS?

I'll give you that.

Even if it's b/c the conference is simply overlooked and ignored, the end result has bee enviable.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 10:59 AM by DrTorch.)
03-04-2013 10:59 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
Quote:According to sources familiar with the talks that have been held between the Catholic 7 group of schools and the Big East football schools, the deal that will be finalized and announced on Wednesday will pay each of the remaining football schools-Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida nearly $30 million each from a conference cash reserve in excess of $114 million.

The Catholic 7 group–Seton Hall, DePaul, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s Georgetown and Providence–had hoped to each receive between $3 and 5 million from that pot. They will take half of that, with each school receiving approximately $1.5 million.

The rest of the money will be divided between the 8 incoming Big East schools, who will divide approximately $10 million. The remaining money–between $3 and 5 million will go into a Big East operating funds account.
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5471

What a deal for the incoming BE schools.

USF, UConn, Cincinnati (90 million)
Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, G'town, Nova, St. John's, Providence (10.5 million)
Memphis, Temple, ECU, Tulane, UCF, SMU, Houston, Navy (10 million)

03-phew
03-05-2013 02:27 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
The MAC framework has been steady but the innards are all in flux. We're on our 4th head coach in 7 years, we're losing an assistant coach that just got here (though he lasted longer than PJ), not to mention all the other assistant coaches that came and went, and our AD might be leaving (and he's only been here 4 or 5 years). We have miniature realignment every year it seems.
03-05-2013 02:37 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-05-2013 02:27 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
Quote:According to sources familiar with the talks that have been held between the Catholic 7 group of schools and the Big East football schools, the deal that will be finalized and announced on Wednesday will pay each of the remaining football schools-Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida nearly $30 million each from a conference cash reserve in excess of $114 million.

The Catholic 7 group–Seton Hall, DePaul, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s Georgetown and Providence–had hoped to each receive between $3 and 5 million from that pot. They will take half of that, with each school receiving approximately $1.5 million.

The rest of the money will be divided between the 8 incoming Big East schools, who will divide approximately $10 million. The remaining money–between $3 and 5 million will go into a Big East operating funds account.
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5471

What a deal for the incoming BE schools.

USF, UConn, Cincinnati (90 million)
Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, G'town, Nova, St. John's, Providence (10.5 million)
Memphis, Temple, ECU, Tulane, UCF, SMU, Houston, Navy (10 million)

03-phew

Did they pay to leave their previous conferences?
03-05-2013 02:58 PM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Big East FB (RIP)? Catholic 7 to retian Big East name
(03-05-2013 02:58 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(03-05-2013 02:27 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
Quote:According to sources familiar with the talks that have been held between the Catholic 7 group of schools and the Big East football schools, the deal that will be finalized and announced on Wednesday will pay each of the remaining football schools-Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida nearly $30 million each from a conference cash reserve in excess of $114 million.

The Catholic 7 group–Seton Hall, DePaul, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s Georgetown and Providence–had hoped to each receive between $3 and 5 million from that pot. They will take half of that, with each school receiving approximately $1.5 million.

The rest of the money will be divided between the 8 incoming Big East schools, who will divide approximately $10 million. The remaining money–between $3 and 5 million will go into a Big East operating funds account.
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5471

What a deal for the incoming BE schools.

USF, UConn, Cincinnati (90 million)
Seton Hall, DePaul, Marquette, G'town, Nova, St. John's, Providence (10.5 million)
Memphis, Temple, ECU, Tulane, UCF, SMU, Houston, Navy (10 million)

03-phew

Did they pay to leave their previous conferences?

Temple paid the MAC 6mil and A-10 1mil-500k (dont remember)

The CUSA schools are said to be paying $500k ea

All had to pay 2.5mil to join the Big East...may be negotiated now.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2013 03:02 PM by HuskieJohn.)
03-05-2013 03:02 PM
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