(02-26-2013 11:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think something that needs to be said- Fox has input with 3 of the big conferences- 2 that are guaranteed to survive- Big Ten and Pac 12- along with the Big 12 of course. I can see Fox telling the P12 to hold off initially- allow the ACC to get weaker by SEC and Big Ten- allowing Big 12 to poach the leftovers from the ACC- then getting the B12 teams for the P12- then having the B12 finish the job.

Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 06:52 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 06:35 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Also don't buy everyone waiting on exit fee.

I agree.

All you have to do is look at how the travel cost is killing West Virginia and you will see why ACC teams will not move to the Big 12. You had better hope the Big does not go after Kansas and the SEC does not go after West Virginia. The Big 12 would be an 8 team conference, and then the PAC 12 could take Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma and Ohlahoma State. There are lots of Big 12 schools that still hate being bulled by Texas. What goes around often comes around.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think something that needs to be said- Fox has input with 3 of the big conferences- 2 that are guaranteed to survive- Big Ten and Pac 12- along with the Big 12 of course. I can see Fox telling the P12 to hold off initially- allow the ACC to get weaker by SEC and Big Ten- allowing Big 12 to poach the leftovers from the ACC- then getting the B12 teams for the P12- then having the B12 finish the job.

Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

Hell freezing over will likely happen first.

Exactly.....when will people on this board learn that.

Do I think Texas will want to join the SEC? No, not me. Do I think Texas would join the SEC? Yep, if ESPN told them to.
Texas has already sold themselves to ESPN and is being well paid for it. If ESPN needed Texas in the SEC to keep the PAC out of the central time zone, I think they would obey.

(02-26-2013 01:06 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:02 PM)Topkat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:16 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:05 AM)Topkat Wrote:  I thought the A-10 just got a new TV deal (with Butler + VCU) in October 2012 valued at a little over 300K per school?

The A10 has a lot of dismal TV properties that are just brutal. Fordham, RI, Duquesne, GW, etc.

The reason why the C7 will get 3 milllion plus from Fox is the fact that you have VCU, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette who have been to the final 4 in the last 10 years- and then other quality programs like St John's, Xavier, SLU- that are all really good.

Also you talk the market strategy- the C7 has the markets. New York, Philly, DC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Richmond, Cincy, St Louis.

The networks already account for that by putting their most valuable properties on more and at prime times.

I have seen the C7 was to be offered 40M or so, but it isn't because of the A10 schools being added.

I have been watching the tv ratings for both football and basketball for a while now. Butler draws well on TV (at this moment), the rest of the A-10 possibly being added, not so much.

GTwn draws good ratings, Marquette has been strong except when playing the remaining C7 schools.

I don't doubt they will get paid, but if you watch the ratings when these schools play, its a head scratcher.

Thanks for the info. Where are the ratings available?

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.com/2013/0...ruary.html

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/category...ketball-m/

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratings/

(02-26-2013 12:02 PM)Topkat Wrote:  I have been watching the tv ratings for both football and basketball for a while now. Butler draws well on TV (at this moment), the rest of the A-10 possibly being added, not so much.

GTwn draws good ratings, Marquette has been strong except when playing the remaining C7 schools.

I don't doubt they will get paid, but if you watch the ratings when these schools play, its a head scratcher.

Check out the local ratings for those schools and you may have your answer. Maybe they don't draw as well nationally, but when you are a power player locally they can sell the 3rd tier rights off for a substantial price. While Dayton isn't the largest market, they draw a huge share locally. I'd imagine most of those schools (not counting DePaul and Xavier) draw very well locally.

So a BTN senior writer thinks this is all going to happen. Could he have a slightly bias opinion on this and since his sources are B1G people could he perhaps only be getting one side of the conversation? Maybe he is on the money, but I doubt it.

The problem with all this speculation is that there are way too many moving parts. Too many things have to happen in concert with one another, too many things can go wrong, and when one part of this grand scheme doesn't unfold just right it all falls apart.

I think it is much more likely that the ACC schools hold tight at 14.5. But what do I know?

(02-26-2013 02:06 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:02 PM)Topkat Wrote:  I have been watching the tv ratings for both football and basketball for a while now. Butler draws well on TV (at this moment), the rest of the A-10 possibly being added, not so much.

GTwn draws good ratings, Marquette has been strong except when playing the remaining C7 schools.

I don't doubt they will get paid, but if you watch the ratings when these schools play, its a head scratcher.

Check out the local ratings for those schools and you may have your answer. Maybe they don't draw as well nationally, but when you are a power player locally they can sell the 3rd tier rights off for a substantial price. While Dayton isn't the largest market, they draw a huge share locally. I'd imagine most of those schools (not counting DePaul and Xavier) draw very well locally.

Link for local ratings?

(02-26-2013 02:51 PM)Topkat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 02:06 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:02 PM)Topkat Wrote:  I have been watching the tv ratings for both football and basketball for a while now. Butler draws well on TV (at this moment), the rest of the A-10 possibly being added, not so much.

GTwn draws good ratings, Marquette has been strong except when playing the remaining C7 schools.

I don't doubt they will get paid, but if you watch the ratings when these schools play, its a head scratcher.

Check out the local ratings for those schools and you may have your answer. Maybe they don't draw as well nationally, but when you are a power player locally they can sell the 3rd tier rights off for a substantial price. While Dayton isn't the largest market, they draw a huge share locally. I'd imagine most of those schools (not counting DePaul and Xavier) draw very well locally.

Link for local ratings?

Yeah Xavier sure does deliver the Cincinnati market. I'd be surprised if 10% of people here are Xavier fans at best. Hard to get tv ratings when all 10k of your fans are already crammed into cintas center not home on the couch.

Expansion is mainly about tv sets, conference network content and subscribers. Anybody who thinks it's about tradition, rivalries, scheduling, how many are in each division, etc. is just not getting it.

Don't be surprised if the PAC12 goes into the MWC for it's candidates. There are some tv sets, subscribers, D1A programs there.

I think that the ACC is in the most precarious spot.

The only big western market being left out of the PAC is Las Vegas. PHX, Seattle, Portland, all of Cali, Denver, SLC - they are all accounted for. If UNLV could somehow miracle a major college athletic program out of its arse in the next three years, it could have a chance of catching the last train to the PAC. But that's just not happening. I don't see any PAC expansion not involving Texahoma.

(02-26-2013 02:51 PM)Topkat Wrote:  Check out the local ratings for those schools and you may have your answer. Maybe they don't draw as well nationally, but when you are a power player locally they can sell the 3rd tier rights off for a substantial price. While Dayton isn't the largest market, they draw a huge share locally. I'd imagine most of those schools (not counting DePaul and Xavier) draw very well locally.

Link for local ratings?
[/quote]

Don't have one... that was my point.

(02-26-2013 03:31 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The only big western market being left out of the PAC is Las Vegas. PHX, Seattle, Portland, all of Cali, Denver, SLC - they are all accounted for. If UNLV could somehow miracle a major college athletic program out of its arse in the next three years, it could have a chance of catching the last train to the PAC. But that's just not happening. I don't see any PAC expansion not involving Texahoma.

Unless its expansion around ND...which is possible if the B1G and SEC pick apart enough but not too much of the ACC.

(02-26-2013 03:37 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 02:51 PM)Topkat Wrote:  Check out the local ratings for those schools and you may have your answer. Maybe they don't draw as well nationally, but when you are a power player locally they can sell the 3rd tier rights off for a substantial price. While Dayton isn't the largest market, they draw a huge share locally. I'd imagine most of those schools (not counting DePaul and Xavier) draw very well locally.

Link for local ratings?

Don't have one... that was my point.
[/quote]

Okay, I thought your point had a source. I'm not sure the $3-4M per school C7 tv contract is bidding for local (ie Dayton area) penetration.

(02-26-2013 01:17 PM)Topkat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 01:06 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:02 PM)Topkat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:16 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:05 AM)Topkat Wrote:  I thought the A-10 just got a new TV deal (with Butler + VCU) in October 2012 valued at a little over 300K per school?

The A10 has a lot of dismal TV properties that are just brutal. Fordham, RI, Duquesne, GW, etc.

The reason why the C7 will get 3 milllion plus from Fox is the fact that you have VCU, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette who have been to the final 4 in the last 10 years- and then other quality programs like St John's, Xavier, SLU- that are all really good.

Also you talk the market strategy- the C7 has the markets. New York, Philly, DC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Richmond, Cincy, St Louis.

The networks already account for that by putting their most valuable properties on more and at prime times.

I have seen the C7 was to be offered 40M or so, but it isn't because of the A10 schools being added.

I have been watching the tv ratings for both football and basketball for a while now. Butler draws well on TV (at this moment), the rest of the A-10 possibly being added, not so much.

GTwn draws good ratings, Marquette has been strong except when playing the remaining C7 schools.

I don't doubt they will get paid, but if you watch the ratings when these schools play, its a head scratcher.

Thanks for the info. Where are the ratings available?

http://sonofthebronx.blogspot.com/2013/0...ruary.html

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/category...ketball-m/

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratings/

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

(02-26-2013 01:14 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think something that needs to be said- Fox has input with 3 of the big conferences- 2 that are guaranteed to survive- Big Ten and Pac 12- along with the Big 12 of course. I can see Fox telling the P12 to hold off initially- allow the ACC to get weaker by SEC and Big Ten- allowing Big 12 to poach the leftovers from the ACC- then getting the B12 teams for the P12- then having the B12 finish the job.

Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 06:52 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 06:35 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Also don't buy everyone waiting on exit fee.

I agree.

All you have to do is look at how the travel cost is killing West Virginia and you will see why ACC teams will not move to the Big 12. You had better hope the Big does not go after Kansas and the SEC does not go after West Virginia. The Big 12 would be an 8 team conference, and then the PAC 12 could take Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma and Ohlahoma State. There are lots of Big 12 schools that still hate being bulled by Texas. What goes around often comes around.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think something that needs to be said- Fox has input with 3 of the big conferences- 2 that are guaranteed to survive- Big Ten and Pac 12- along with the Big 12 of course. I can see Fox telling the P12 to hold off initially- allow the ACC to get weaker by SEC and Big Ten- allowing Big 12 to poach the leftovers from the ACC- then getting the B12 teams for the P12- then having the B12 finish the job.

Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

Hell freezing over will likely happen first.

Exactly.....when will people on this board learn that.

Do I think Texas will want to join the SEC? No, not me. Do I think Texas would join the SEC? Yep, if ESPN told them to.
Texas has already sold themselves to ESPN and is being well paid for it. If ESPN needed Texas in the SEC to keep the PAC out of the central time zone, I think they would obey.

I don't think you know much about Texas.

(02-26-2013 03:31 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The only big western market being left out of the PAC is Las Vegas. PHX, Seattle, Portland, all of Cali, Denver, SLC - they are all accounted for. If UNLV could somehow miracle a major college athletic program out of its arse in the next three years, it could have a chance of catching the last train to the PAC. But that's just not happening. I don't see any PAC expansion not involving Texahoma.

How is the San Diego market accounted for? The golden valley with its population of 10 million? SDSU & Fresno State cover those 2 areas.

I think you're right about Texahoma, but it's not like 4 schools bring in the entire California market in a state with a population of 38 million..

(02-26-2013 04:54 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 01:14 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:37 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:29 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think something that needs to be said- Fox has input with 3 of the big conferences- 2 that are guaranteed to survive- Big Ten and Pac 12- along with the Big 12 of course. I can see Fox telling the P12 to hold off initially- allow the ACC to get weaker by SEC and Big Ten- allowing Big 12 to poach the leftovers from the ACC- then getting the B12 teams for the P12- then having the B12 finish the job.

Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 06:52 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  I agree.

All you have to do is look at how the travel cost is killing West Virginia and you will see why ACC teams will not move to the Big 12. You had better hope the Big does not go after Kansas and the SEC does not go after West Virginia. The Big 12 would be an 8 team conference, and then the PAC 12 could take Texas Tech, TCU, Oklahoma and Ohlahoma State. There are lots of Big 12 schools that still hate being bulled by Texas. What goes around often comes around.

(02-26-2013 09:04 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:59 AM)XLance Wrote:  Stever you are absolutely correct!
By the same token, I can see ESPN doing everything possible to make the SEC and the ACC stronger. ESPN will prop up the Big 12 (Texas) long enough until the Longhorns consent to join the SEC. ESPN will probably want to eliminate all competition for the 24 million football fans in the state of Texas.

Hell freezing over will likely happen first.

Exactly.....when will people on this board learn that.

Do I think Texas will want to join the SEC? No, not me. Do I think Texas would join the SEC? Yep, if ESPN told them to.
Texas has already sold themselves to ESPN and is being well paid for it. If ESPN needed Texas in the SEC to keep the PAC out of the central time zone, I think they would obey.

I don't think you know much about Texas.

Agreed.

(02-26-2013 04:56 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:31 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The only big western market being left out of the PAC is Las Vegas. PHX, Seattle, Portland, all of Cali, Denver, SLC - they are all accounted for. If UNLV could somehow miracle a major college athletic program out of its arse in the next three years, it could have a chance of catching the last train to the PAC. But that's just not happening. I don't see any PAC expansion not involving Texahoma.

How is the San Diego market accounted for? The golden valley with its population of 10 million? SDSU & Fresno State cover those 2 areas.

I think you're right about Texahoma, but it's not like 4 schools bring in the entire California market in a state with a population of 38 million..

First this isn't the way I think. It's the way these TV guys seem to think. If the Longhorns get the entire "Texas market" - whatever that is - then surely Cal and USC are good enough to be considered as covering those markets.

Hey, I think it's stupid too. But that's how they seem to deal with it. When it comes to pro sports, they use metro area geography. But when it comes to college sports, the "Enormous State University" is blessed with the entire population of said state.

So if you live in LoCal, you are a Golden Bears fan whether you like it or not, because by God those media guys say so.

(02-27-2013 08:31 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 04:56 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:31 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The only big western market being left out of the PAC is Las Vegas. PHX, Seattle, Portland, all of Cali, Denver, SLC - they are all accounted for. If UNLV could somehow miracle a major college athletic program out of its arse in the next three years, it could have a chance of catching the last train to the PAC. But that's just not happening. I don't see any PAC expansion not involving Texahoma.

How is the San Diego market accounted for? The golden valley with its population of 10 million? SDSU & Fresno State cover those 2 areas.

I think you're right about Texahoma, but it's not like 4 schools bring in the entire California market in a state with a population of 38 million..

First this isn't the way I think. It's the way these TV guys seem to think. If the Longhorns get the entire "Texas market" - whatever that is - then surely Cal and USC are good enough to be considered as covering those markets.

Hey, I think it's stupid too. But that's how they seem to deal with it. When it comes to pro sports, they use metro area geography. But when it comes to college sports, the "Enormous State University" is blessed with the entire population of said state.

So if you live in LoCal, you are a Golden Bears fan whether you like it or not, because by God those media guys say so.

All good points.

I wonder if those media guys are right. The University of California is an enormous university system with 9 research campuses, I believe. Only 2 of them - Berkeley and UCLA - compete in major college sports. Are we to believe that students at those othe 7 branches, scattered around the state, cheer for those schools simply because they're the flagships?

In addition, California State University is a whole other university system with another multitude of campuses, of which San Diego State and Fresno State have achieved some degree of success in intercollegiate sports. Again, are these students cheering for UCLA and Berkeley?

Stanford and USC are both private schools. USC has benefitted in recent years from the fact that the NFL abandoned the LA market. The Lankers benefitted from that too. But if/when the NFL returns - as they surely will, what happens to USC? Just refer to USC's record in the last quarter of the 20th century for the answer.

IMO, the Pac 12 is making a big mistake by ignoring the CA market. When fans refer to some place as a pro town, it's usually because the colleges haven't given them any alternative.

(02-27-2013 08:50 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I wonder if those media guys are right. The University of California is an enormous university system with 9 research campuses, I believe. Only 2 of them - Berkeley and UCLA - compete in major college sports. Are we to believe that students at those othe 7 branches, scattered around the state, cheer for those schools simply because they're the flagships?

In addition, California State University is a whole other university system with another multitude of campuses, of which San Diego State and Fresno State have achieved some degree of success in intercollegiate sports. Again, are these students cheering for UCLA and Berkeley?

IMO, the Pac 12 is making a big mistake by ignoring the CA market. When fans refer to some place as a pro town, it's usually because the colleges haven't given them any alternative.

I don't believe they are right, but they should know their business. So hell, maybe they are right. I still tend to agree with you that huge swaths of people/fans are being ignored based on decisions made decades ago to include the names of states in the names of universities. And if effing North Carolina is big enough for four schools, surely California can deal with five.

In their defense though, many if not all these major metros really are pro towns. San Diego is worried about the Chargers, not the Aztecs. And that is a high hurdle to deal with.

My feel is 90% of the college fans in Cali root for Pac12 teams. Not because they necessarily went there but much like the original SEC teams pulling in their entire states it's a product of being the only school in a league that typically could allow them to compete for national titles on a consistent basis.

SDSU didn't join the WAC until 78. Fresno and SJSU didn't join it until the 1990's. That is a LONG time where there were literally only 4 teams in the state. After that it would take a while for the others to carve out market share. When the PAC4 are competing for the Rose Bowl every year and the WAC was going to a mid-tier bowl at best it made that even more difficult.

(02-27-2013 09:15 AM)S11 Wrote:  My feel is 90% of the college fans in Cali root for Pac12 teams. Not because they necessarily went there but much like the original SEC teams pulling in their entire states it's a product of being the only school in a league that typically could allow them to compete for national titles on a consistent basis.

SDSU didn't join the WAC until 78. Fresno and SJSU didn't join it until the 1990's. That is a LONG time where there were literally only 4 teams in the state. After that it would take a while for the others to carve out market share. When the PAC4 are competing for the Rose Bowl every year and the WAC was going to a mid-tier bowl at best it made that even more difficult.

Same thing with the Midwest (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Ohio) with the B1G/ND & MAC.