I don't understand the purpose of the rule at all. If a person is of working age, wants to work for a company, and that company wants the person to work for them, why does there need to be some stupid rules getting in the way?

I do not at all believe it is good for college basketball either.

(02-23-2013 07:46 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  Just for the sake of discussion...Adonis' draft stock is definitely lower than it was in HS or even after his 1st year. However, the counter to your argument is that guys who have deficiencies that need work may be able to ultimately have a prolonged NBA career by being exposed in college and improving from there. AT seems to be improving, and could very well play himself back into the lottery over the 1+ years.

It doesn't really work that way, draft status is like a negative correlation. The older you get in basketball the more your draft stock usually drops. Even if he kills it next year NBA teams will be a lot less likely to take a chance on him in the lottery regardless. For the most part they will just take the guy thats 2 years younger, especially in the top 10 picks.

I have to agree with SJ here. You have to go when your stock is highest and the current system does not allow kids to sell when they have peaked. I hear Dick Vitale telling these guaranteed 1st round draft picks to stay in school and I think that comment is irresponsible. Any kid, that is a LOCK for the 1st round, should go to the NBA. Short of them already coming from a well to do family like Tyler Hansbrough, you need to be gone.

It's a guranteed 3 year deal!!!!!! Not to mention the time value of money and an extra year of earnings. Vitale was talking about how important the 2nd contract is last night during the broadcast. Well if thats the case, wouldn't you rather hit your 2nd contract at 21 than 22?

I also think it's hilarious that baseball players are basically pushed to leave early and sign BS $150,000 signing bonuses and make peanuts. Yet we tell hoopsters to turn down millions.

(02-23-2013 02:44 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Basically forcing them to go to college is dumb and un-american. Unless they go the Brandon Jennings or Jeremy Tyler route then they are placed into a Nerlens Noel/Anthony Bennett situation. Those guys should have been in the NBA this season.

They don't have to go to college first, they just can't come in right after high school.

I say just pay these darn kids. Its funny how we talking TVdeals and how much the schools are getting .When none of these kids are getting a dime of it.

(02-25-2013 01:38 AM)10miners Wrote:  I say just pay these darn kids. Its funny how we talking TVdeals and how much the schools are getting .When none of these kids are getting a dime of it.

I agree and disagree. I think it is stupid that "amateur" college sports are such a big money business. I don't think the answer is to pay the players. I think the answer is to tell the tv companies to f off.

Of course I realize that almost nobody will agree with me. Everyone loves watching football on tv. Myself included, although I have pretty much reduced my viewing to C-USA only.

I don't know what the answer is but these HUGE television deals (for some conferences) are ridiculous. It is destroying conferences and long time relationships between schools.

I dunno, I just remember how much more I liked college sports when I was younger and didn't realize all the BS surrounding it.

(02-25-2013 05:00 AM)TheEastisPurple Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 01:38 AM)10miners Wrote:  I say just pay these darn kids. Its funny how we talking TVdeals and how much the schools are getting .When none of these kids are getting a dime of it.

I agree and disagree. I think it is stupid that "amateur" college sports are such a big money business. I don't think the answer is to pay the players. I think the answer is to tell the tv companies to f off.

Of course I realize that almost nobody will agree with me. Everyone loves watching football on tv. Myself included, although I have pretty much reduced my viewing to C-USA only.

I don't know what the answer is but these HUGE television deals (for some conferences) are ridiculous. It is destroying conferences and long time relationships between schools.

I dunno, I just remember how much more I liked college sports when I was younger and didn't realize all the BS surrounding it.

Make it like Baseball. You can get drafted out of high school, or after 3 years (you could change it to 2 years.) If you come out of high school, you get a minor league contract and you have to spend at least one year in nbdl.

This way, you can still come in to the NBA at 19, but you have to go through a year of NBDL. Once you move up, you get paid more just like in baseball. What it would do, is make the kids that do go to college, stay there for 2 or 3 years.

They're adults. Let them go whenever they want.

(02-23-2013 02:28 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  My opinion...

1. Kids should be draftable out of high school. If they do not enter the draft or do not get drafted, they must wait 2 or 3 years to become eligible...a la baseball.

2. Any high school played drafted must receive a contract worth $X per year for 5 years. This would force teams to not roll the dice in someone because there is a significant stake. The only way this contract can be voided is by a certain level of criminal activity (not busted smoking weed) or gross dumbassery.

I agree, the NBA needs more skin in the game. A player will lose more, than the NBA team if he doesn't pan out.

Maybe some kind of cap for X amount of years. For example, each team can select 3 HS players every five years (The numbers are for an example, not saying they would work). So that would put pressure on the teams to only select the best-of-the-best out of HS. Not roll the dice for a potential Kobe/Lebron.

(02-23-2013 11:14 PM)TheEastisPurple Wrote:  I don't understand the purpose of the rule at all. If a person is of working age, wants to work for a company, and that company wants the person to work for them, why does there need to be some stupid rules getting in the way?

I do not at all believe it is good for college basketball either.

It isn't good for college either. All of the officials/admins pretending the players are going to African American studies classes for a year or two, is just sad.

(02-24-2013 04:19 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 07:46 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  Just for the sake of discussion...Adonis' draft stock is definitely lower than it was in HS or even after his 1st year. However, the counter to your argument is that guys who have deficiencies that need work may be able to ultimately have a prolonged NBA career by being exposed in college and improving from there. AT seems to be improving, and could very well play himself back into the lottery over the 1+ years.

It doesn't really work that way, draft status is like a negative correlation. The older you get in basketball the more your draft stock usually drops. Even if he kills it next year NBA teams will be a lot less likely to take a chance on him in the lottery regardless. For the most part they will just take the guy thats 2 years younger, especially in the top 10 picks.

Yes, and no. If you have the talent, and perform...even with a year or so that was under expectations, your stock will still be reflective of what you are. The one thing is that the teams will have a better assessment of what you are and aren't. There are plenty of examples of lottery picks with 2-3 years experience. When you get that "can't miss" guy after their first season, of course they go high.

However, it's not like Adonis won't be draftable , because he was in school for a few years. He has been very quietly asserting what he can do on the floor over the past 4 or 5 games...and doing so in an offense that doesn't rely on any 1 person to carry most of the load. If he keeps his recent level of play up, it'll be hard for too many teams to pass him up in next year's draft.

(02-25-2013 10:55 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:28 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  My opinion...

1. Kids should be draftable out of high school. If they do not enter the draft or do not get drafted, they must wait 2 or 3 years to become eligible...a la baseball.

2. Any high school played drafted must receive a contract worth $X per year for 5 years. This would force teams to not roll the dice in someone because there is a significant stake. The only way this contract can be voided is by a certain level of criminal activity (not busted smoking weed) or gross dumbassery.

I agree, the NBA needs more skin in the game. A player will lose more, than the NBA team if he doesn't pan out.

Maybe some kind of cap for X amount of years. For example, each team can select 3 HS players every five years (The numbers are for an example, not saying they would work). So that would put pressure on the teams to only select the best-of-the-best out of HS. Not roll the dice for a potential Kobe/Lebron.

Thank you, someone got my point. We don't need a bunch of Kwame Brown's hitting the league and quickly disappearing...but I also think the Kobe's, Howard's, and LeBron's should just be able to do what everyone knows they'll do.

(02-25-2013 10:43 AM)cocky Wrote:  They're adults. Let them go whenever they want.

It's more complicated than that. It is also about protecting the NBA product. The move towards younger and younger drafted players has been VERY bad for the league, as teams are forced to take fliers on these guys with so little record. There are kids who are obviously headed to greatnes...and even those aren't sure things.

In 2008, you had Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, and Michael Beasley...everyone knew where they were going, and when. Now, my school benefited (sort of) from one of those guys, but the reality is all four of those guys should have been allowed to jump directly. Rose and Love are killing it...Mayo has been a very productive role player, and only Beasley seems to have lost his way.

(02-24-2013 04:19 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 07:46 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  Just for the sake of discussion...Adonis' draft stock is definitely lower than it was in HS or even after his 1st year. However, the counter to your argument is that guys who have deficiencies that need work may be able to ultimately have a prolonged NBA career by being exposed in college and improving from there. AT seems to be improving, and could very well play himself back into the lottery over the 1+ years.

It doesn't really work that way, draft status is like a negative correlation. The older you get in basketball the more your draft stock usually drops. Even if he kills it next year NBA teams will be a lot less likely to take a chance on him in the lottery regardless. For the most part they will just take the guy thats 2 years younger, especially in the top 10 picks.

2011: Kemba Walker, Jimmer Fredette, Kenneth Faried, Klay Thompson, The Morris twins, Vucevic, Shumpert, Singleton, Nolan Smith, Reggie Jackson,JaJuan Johnson, Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler.
2012: Thomas Robinson, Damian Lillard, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, Andrew Nicholson, John Jenkins, Jared Cunningham, Arnett Moultire, Festus Ezeli.

All of these guys were at least Juniors and drafted in the first round. I get what you are saying about the lottery picks, but it isn't like these guys had their draft status crushed by staying in school. Hell, I think you could really argue that Fredette, Robinson, and Walker played their way into the lottery. I agree that teams tend to look for the young guys with high upside early, but I don't think that correlation really stretches across the draft.

At the time that 2011 draft with Walker and Jimmer was considered one of the weakest ever. In retrospect it's turned out to be a good draft, but still that perceived weakness helped pave the way for them to be lottery picks. Just the fact you have a guy like Kemba that was averaging like 25ppg and took UConn to the National championship and was still drafted behind Bismack Byiombo 9th by the same team that picked him says all that really needs to be said about sticking around. Being an upperclassmen is a strike against you. If you can go.....go.

There are many guys like Adonis Thomas that would have cashed in out of high school under the old rules that might not even get drafted 1st round now. A guy that came to mind was Robert Swift and ironically I just saw an article on him today about them foreclosing on his house and him refusing to leave.

Quote:KOMO News said Swift earned about $20 million during his career, but Basketball-Reference.com puts that number lower, at about $11.5 million. That's still enough to afford his home, yet Swift lost it. Now the new owner, who did not want to be identified, is asking a court to remove Swift from the home if he doesn't leave soon.

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2013/02/2...-eviction/

So there is a great example of a guy who went straight out of high school and had no business in the NBA getting 10-20 million.

Quote:"It seems like a very sad story, and I definitely feel for him," the owner told KOMO News. But "before we can do anything to the property, I need him out of there." And the property needs a lot of work. Since Swift bought the home, it has become a wreck. Today, there are beer cans strewn all over the yard, buckets of stagnant water, a bullet hole in the garage-door window, boarded-up windows and cars sitting in the driveway that "don't look like they've moved in a long time," the new owner said. There's also an array of interesting signs posted to the home and cars in the driveway, one of which says "Danger Men Drinking."

Only bad thing I suppose is these people have no common sense or grasp of managing money. One study showed that 70% of NBA players are bankrupt 5 years after they retire.

(02-25-2013 10:59 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 10:55 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:28 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  My opinion...

1. Kids should be draftable out of high school. If they do not enter the draft or do not get drafted, they must wait 2 or 3 years to become eligible...a la baseball.

2. Any high school played drafted must receive a contract worth $X per year for 5 years. This would force teams to not roll the dice in someone because there is a significant stake. The only way this contract can be voided is by a certain level of criminal activity (not busted smoking weed) or gross dumbassery.

I agree, the NBA needs more skin in the game. A player will lose more, than the NBA team if he doesn't pan out.

Maybe some kind of cap for X amount of years. For example, each team can select 3 HS players every five years (The numbers are for an example, not saying they would work). So that would put pressure on the teams to only select the best-of-the-best out of HS. Not roll the dice for a potential Kobe/Lebron.

Thank you, someone got my point. We don't need a bunch of Kwame Brown's hitting the league and quickly disappearing...but I also think the Kobe's, Howard's, and LeBron's should just be able to do what everyone knows they'll do.

(02-25-2013 10:43 AM)cocky Wrote:  They're adults. Let them go whenever they want.

It's more complicated than that. It is also about protecting the NBA product. The move towards younger and younger drafted players has been VERY bad for the league, as teams are forced to take fliers on these guys with so little record. There are kids who are obviously headed to greatnes...and even those aren't sure things.

In 2008, you had Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, and Michael Beasley...everyone knew where they were going, and when. Now, my school benefited (sort of) from one of those guys, but the reality is all four of those guys should have been allowed to jump directly. Rose and Love are killing it...Mayo has been a very productive role player, and only Beasley seems to have lost his way.

Let the individual teams decide if they want to take chances on them or not. The NBA doesn't need to make rules about it, and neither do colleges. If you're old enough to decide to risk your life joining the military, you should be able to play a stupid game as a job if you want.

(02-25-2013 09:21 PM)cocky Wrote:  Let the individual teams decide if they want to take chances on them or not. The NBA doesn't need to make rules about it, and neither do colleges. If you're old enough to decide to risk your life joining the military, you should be able to play a stupid game as a job if you want.

So, you don't think the NBA, as an organization, has an interest or responsibility in protecting the product it it marketing? The entertainment value of NBA basketball has been in a steady decline since the mass infiltration of younger and younger players...the NBA is fully within it's rights, as is football, to limit the ages of players coming in.

What's the difference between some business requiring a certain college degree (Associate, Bachelor, Master, PhD) to get a job, and the NBA requiring it's players to be 1 year removed from high school? Nothing. Pretty much all jobs have requirements that need to be met.

(02-25-2013 11:02 PM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 09:21 PM)cocky Wrote:  Let the individual teams decide if they want to take chances on them or not. The NBA doesn't need to make rules about it, and neither do colleges. If you're old enough to decide to risk your life joining the military, you should be able to play a stupid game as a job if you want.

So, you don't think the NBA, as an organization, has an interest or responsibility in protecting the product it it marketing? The entertainment value of NBA basketball has been in a steady decline since the mass infiltration of younger and younger players...the NBA is fully within it's rights, as is football, to limit the ages of players coming in.

NBA is garbage anyway. Old players, young players, or anything in between.