(02-21-2013 03:03 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  That is why I am afraid of Saint Louis. If they sustain the success they've had this season (and have some tournament success), then they become the type of no-brainer addition that Xavier and Butler are (because of their market and institutional fit).

Butler has had 4 coaches since 1989:

Barry Collier
Thad Matta
Todd Lickliter
Brad Stevens

All hired subsequent to Barry Collier were assistant coaches on staff.

Maybe not the best support to why Crews' hire would be an ill-omen.

(02-21-2013 03:11 PM)Title Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 03:03 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  That is why I am afraid of Saint Louis. If they sustain the success they've had this season (and have some tournament success), then they become the type of no-brainer addition that Xavier and Butler are (because of their market and institutional fit).

Butler has had 4 coaches since 1989:

Barry Collier
Thad Matta
Todd Lickliter
Brad Stevens

All hired subsequent to Barry Collier were assistant coaches on staff.

Maybe not the best support to why Crews' hire would be an ill-omen.

were any of them though interim coaches? There's been too many times in sports where an interim gets hired and does well for rest of years, but then falls apart. It's not an upcoming assistant situation, it's the interim coach situation. For whatever reason, a lot of those when hired full time just don't pan out.

(02-21-2013 12:52 PM)LouPower Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 12:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 12:25 PM)Taj79 Wrote:  Looking at programs trending up should be a favorable factor come decision time.

Problem is, that program could be "trending up", or they could be at a 20-year peak and poised to turn right back into what their history suggests.

I know you don't like Saint Louis, you've established that over and over. But to suggest that this is all SLU can do is absurd.

I didn't say "SLU". A lot of folks would say "VCU--one Final Four." Some folks would say "what happens to Creighton when McDermott graduates"

I was actually thinking of Depaul--won the CUSA regular season title in 2004 when CUSA had Louisville, Memphis, Cincinatti, Marquette, plus UAB and Charlotte when they were better than they are now.

It's not always about SLU. You have consistently good attendance, you're the only major basketball in the StL area, so you'll always be at worst a sleeping giant.

(02-21-2013 03:11 PM)Title Wrote:  Butler has had 4 coaches since 1989:

Barry Collier
Thad Matta
Todd Lickliter
Brad Stevens

All hired subsequent to Barry Collier were assistant coaches on staff.

Maybe not the best support to why Crews' hire would be an ill-omen.

I'm not trying to insinuate that Crews will be a bad coach (if indeed he becomes the permanent head coach). I'm saying that you cannot assume that Saint Louis will be able to continue playing at this level given the school's relative lack of sustained success in its history and the lack of a recruiting record for Crews.

An example can be found from Illinois. Bruce Weber had a fantastic first year after Bill Self left for Kansas (Final Four if I remember correctly), but was fired when he couldn't get close to that without guys like Deron Williams, who Self recruited. We'll see if something similar happens with Kansas State, who is in position to possibly be a contender in the Big 12 this year.

I think it takes a minimum of 4-5 years to really evaluate a new coach. That is the time it takes to develop a system truly unique to the individual coach and it also corresponds roughly to a recruiting cycle (ignoring one-and-dones). That is why I think Saint Louis could become a no-brainer addition given time (if Crews shows that he is the CotF), but are simple too unpredictable to add right now.

(02-21-2013 01:50 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 10:35 AM)billyjack Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 08:53 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 07:05 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Fyi:
Marquette was ranked 129 weeks from 1969 to 1979.
Providence was ranked 71 weeks from 1972 to 1978.
PC was also ranked 123 weeks in the 60s and 70s combined.

We just got croaked last night by someone who coached in the 1970s... it's not that long ago!

Jim Larranaga played at Providence in 1967-71. He has croaked the entire ACC this year with Miami, adding to what he did with George Mason 7 years ago.

Thanks for pointing that out!

We have Larranaga (PC '71) at the top of the ACC.
We have Billy Donovan (PC '87) at the top of the SEC.
We have the son of John Thompson Jr (PC '64) tied for the top of the Big East.
We also used to have the all-time winningest NBA coach in Lenny Wilkens (PC '60) til Don Nelson passed him a couple of years ago.

Also, your posts pointing out the good things, groundbreaking, cutting edge, about PC history and the old Big East teams and C-7+5 teams are appreciated. The Big East and C-7 has had some amazing accomplishments.

I paid 8 years of tuition for 2 daughters at PC, so I've done a lot of cheering for Friar teams over the years. My firs daughter was a freshman when Billy Donovan took them to the Final Four. My other daughter was a junior when the Austin Croshere/Shamgod team went to the Elite 8

BTW, MY 3rd daughter, a BC alum, married a guy from Providence, so they get a lot of attention at our house.

At this point in my life, I consider myself a fan of good basketball more than anything else regardless of where it's played even though I'm a season ticket holder at UConn games. Most of all, I'm a fan of Eastern basketball in general with all of the great traditions we have here. The C7 have been an enormous part of that and as a guy who group attending Catholic schools all my life, I have a great affinity for all of them. Te first college gdame I ever attended was a Holy Cross-St. John's game in the Garden. We've been the underdogs for a long time until UConn established a high level of dominance in recent years, but I still think like an underdog.

I'm pulling big time for the C7, hoping that it can re-create the enthusism the accompanied the original Big East. I wish that UConn could be part of it, but that's not happening, so I'll have to settle for split loyalties. That my be hard for people from other parts of the country to understand. They don't seem to think that a group of small private colleges can be successful. But there's a different mentality here than in places that are dominated by State U with a fanatical devotion to that school as most of the rest of the country is. For me when one of us wins in the East, we all win. Same for the Catholic schools, one for all. I cheered just as hard when Al McGuire took Marquette to the NC and when Rollie Massimino took Villanova to one as I did when Jim Calhoun took UConn to any of its championships.

Great post Melky.
I think we have almost identical views on Eastern hoops.

P.S. By the way, your posts last month in the loony 'Gavitt vs Paterno-WVa-etc' discussion on the Conf Realignment board were perfect.