No the bump is from 30 to 40 Million, so that is a 33% jump. Yes per school, as you are increasing from 10 to 12 schools, it averages out to only an 11% jump, but that is pretty large.

(02-14-2013 12:47 PM)bostonspider Wrote:  No the bump is from 30 to 40 Million, so that is a 33% jump. Yes per school, as you are increasing from 10 to 12 schools, it averages out to only an 11% jump, but that is pretty large.

I think the schools would be looking at the per school payout more than the overall contract. Also, the other money brought in would only have to be split from 12 mouths to only 10, which may make the final number larger to have only 10.

(02-14-2013 01:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-14-2013 12:47 PM)bostonspider Wrote:  No the bump is from 30 to 40 Million, so that is a 33% jump. Yes per school, as you are increasing from 10 to 12 schools, it averages out to only an 11% jump, but that is pretty large.

I think the schools would be looking at the per school payout more than the overall contract. Also, the other money brought in would only have to be split from 12 mouths to only 10, which may make the final number larger to have only 10.

No it's not. How does 30 mil split 10 ways equal more than 40 mil split 12 ways?

The final number including everything....TV would only be a part of it...

10 ways- if you make 30 million on everythign else, it's 3 million per school. So 3 million tv, 3 million everything else- 6 million total.
12 ways- 30 million on everything else, 2.5 million per school. 3.33 million tv, 2.5 million everything else 5.83 million total.

(02-14-2013 01:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The final number including everything....TV would only be a part of it...

10 ways- if you make 30 million on everythign else, it's 3 million per school. So 3 million tv, 3 million everything else- 6 million total.
12 ways- 30 million on everything else, 2.5 million per school. 3.33 million tv, 2.5 million everything else 5.83 million total.

Except that teams will have more loses in a true round robin than if they play an 11 team schedule. That means less of a chance getting more teams in the NCAA.

the money isn't just the NCAA. It'd be the BET primarily. It'd be the naming rights for the BET(that would be the same whether you had 10 or 12 teams).

Bottom line, the money difference is going to be negligible for 10 or 12 teams. It may be more for 12, but within 10% difference.

let me stress, there are reasons to go to 12. money really isn't one of them at all. #1 is taking the A10 down to where they can't compete with us.

(02-13-2013 06:27 PM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  1) Double round robin helps to build rivalries that may not be there on day 1.

2) Unless 11 & 12 are true NCAA-type teams that add units, splitting the same units 10 ways is better than 12 ways.

3) There is no universal agreement on 10, 11 and 12. Going to 10 gives 11 & 12 a chance to make themselves obvious.

4) Gives the rest of realignment a chance to happen so we can see end result and who is available (Do UConn/UC call as an option, which could secure the name? Will ACC be killed off and ND be homeless?). Its not likely that there will be an impact, but you can keep your options open.

5) Stops talk of divisions (ok, this is a personal preference).

1) Two games a season are going to help build rivalries? The BE5 have been playing each other forever; Marquette-DePaul were together in a number of leagues since the 1980s (and SLU was with them). Xavier and Dayton was with them, too, back in the day. Xavier and Butler have met like five times in five years. Just being in a league together will do the trick.

Rivalries don't really NEED to be created. Rivalries happen when teams meet in meaningful games. If you lose to one of the new teams, are you going to be pissed off? Yes. For a league and rivalries will just happen no matter what.

2) The conference standings are a very consistent animal.
The average record of the seventh place team in a 10-team league is 7-11.
The average record of the seventh place team in a 12-team league is 7-9.
You can get more NCAA bids with 12 teams; your 7th place team has two more OOC games to get wins without putting a loss on someone else.

3) So what if there isn't a universal agreement? If the C7 bring in three very good teams, they're putting more losses on themselves. Are there five teams that win OOC games at a really high clip? Yes. If they're not as good as the first 10 teams, great: They're winning OOC games, losing to you, you finish 7th in a 12-team league and dance instead of finish 7th and go to the NIT.

4) There is no end result of conference realignment. Going to 12 doesn't cap you. UConn, Cincy and Notre Dame are not options. The changes that happen will happen for football reasons, and inviting a football school just puts the league into upheaval at the NEXT change.

What happens if you wait at 10, the ACC gets picked apart and we land Notre Dame and the best A-10 candidate for 12. Three years later Notre Dame leaves. Oh, but now the recruiting for the A-10/MVC has been a lot harder for the last five years and no one has become the dominant team? Creighton and Dayton and VCU have all become similar to teams like GW, St. Joe's, Northern Iowa where one year they're good and make the dance and the next they are 7-11 in conference?

5) Divisions are stupid no matter how many teams you have. Letting geography dictate your TV package is silly.

(02-13-2013 05:15 PM)monroedoctrine Wrote:  I prefer 10 if they are all elite, but there isn't anything guaranteed in the elite category.

Also, let's be honest, we're moving closer toward A-10 territory than ACC territory with this move and decimating the A-10 helps us keep a clear distance between us and the riff raff.

The A-10 is always going to exist and always be a step below the C7 because you have Nova, Georgetown, St. John's, Prov, and Seton Hall and they are better than GW, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Fordham, URI, Duquesne and Bonaventure.

The A-10 was a multi-bid league without Dayton, Xavier, Butler, VCU and Saint Louis. They'll be one with those guys gone. It's the consistency of conference standings. Their 2nd and 3rd place teams will still be 12-4 and 11-5 in conference, no matter who they are; and those seven are decent enough to win OOC games to be a 2-3 bid league every year. It's the rest of the conferences with no banner carrier that are boned.

First time I've seen a story w/14 teams being talked about.

The new league, yet to be formed, is expected to have 12-to-14 members. The most likely candidates to join the Catholic schools, sources have told ESPN, are Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, Richmond and VCU.


http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?st...53431&wjb=

(02-15-2013 10:27 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  First time I've seen a story w/14 teams being talked about.

The new league, yet to be formed, is expected to have 12-to-14 members. The most likely candidates to join the Catholic schools, sources have told ESPN, are Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, Richmond and VCU.


http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?st...53431&wjb=

i read the same article earlier and meant to post. interesting. i will be disappointed if creighton dosnt get an invite

A 7-5 Western split setup to lean into a small/static market never made no sense nohow. I'll take a 7 and 7 on the rocks please, Title.

just a thought...

lets say 6 are pretty easy adds...
Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, and VCU or Richmond...

who is #7? UConn(of the 2 of them, they're the one I could most see going MAC for football and C7 for basketball).

Yeah, I just can't see Richmond AND VCU......

I think its either Richmond or VCU, not both. I am starting to warm up to the idea of UConn w/ no football. I would of course take UC as well but I don't think they'll be up to dropping their football program. Memphis might want to reconsider that supposed invite after they see that nBe contract.

(02-16-2013 12:20 AM)ivet Wrote:  I think its either Richmond or VCU, not both. I am starting to warm up to the idea of UConn w/ no football. I would of course take UC as well but I don't think they'll be up to dropping their football program. Memphis might want to reconsider that supposed invite after they see that nBe contract.

Yeah I am getting the same way with UConn. The MAC would fit for them as well I think. Cincy is in a bad situation quite frankly.

(02-15-2013 11:28 PM)thegalen Wrote:  A 7-5 Western split setup to lean into a small/static market never made no sense nohow. I'll take a 7 and 7 on the rocks please, Title.

I don't see why 7/5 West is a problem if everyone was okay with a 5/5. You'd have MBB playing Wed/Saturday (usually, some adjustments for TV of course), and team sports like WBB, VB, Soccer would be on a Fri/Sun (or Thur/Sat for WBB) schedule. That would mean you'd have five travel partners and one East-West awkward pairing out of necessity:

Marq-DePaul; Butler-SLU/Creighton; GW-Nova; SHU-SJU; and Prov/Xavier. (or Prov/SHU; SJU-Nova; GW-Xavier) You get the idea.

7/5 would be the same thing, except you'd have Xavier-Dayton and Butler-GW/Prov.

(02-16-2013 12:07 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just a thought...

lets say 6 are pretty easy adds...
Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, Saint Louis, and VCU or Richmond...

who is #7? UConn(of the 2 of them, they're the one I could most see going MAC for football and C7 for basketball).

I could make a pretty solid argument for St. Bonaventure as #14. And it wouldn't be THAT crazy.

(02-16-2013 02:06 AM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(02-15-2013 11:28 PM)thegalen Wrote:  A 7-5 Western split setup to lean into a small/static market never made no sense nohow. I'll take a 7 and 7 on the rocks please, Title.

I don't see why 7/5 West is a problem if everyone was okay with a 5/5. You'd have MBB playing Wed/Saturday (usually, some adjustments for TV of course), and team sports like WBB, VB, Soccer would be on a Fri/Sun (or Thur/Sat for WBB) schedule. That would mean you'd have five travel partners and one East-West awkward pairing out of necessity:

Marq-DePaul; Butler-SLU/Creighton; GW-Nova; SHU-SJU; and Prov/Xavier. (or Prov/SHU; SJU-Nova; GW-Xavier) You get the idea.

7/5 would be the same thing, except you'd have Xavier-Dayton and Butler-GW/Prov.

I understand the hypothetical logistics. They've been rehashed 1,000 times. And a 7/5 West split isn't a "problem" in that it's workable for a must-have, but we're not exactly talking about adding Gonzaga or a killer, deliverable market here. For as much as everyone likes to play the "cultural fit" card, re-centering the Big East to the Midwest/Plains is an even bigger leap than adding a public (which, you know, the Big East has ALWAYS had).

(02-16-2013 12:20 AM)ivet Wrote:  I think its either Richmond or VCU, not both. I am starting to warm up to the idea of UConn w/ no football. I would of course take UC as well but I don't think they'll be up to dropping their football program. Memphis might want to reconsider that supposed invite after they see that nBe contract.

I see we've entered the bargaining phase. Progress!

Why do you think UR and VCU are both in the A10? It's not a charity, after all. UR just cannot bring the eyeballs on its own. UConn, Cincy and Memphis are non-starters. They will NEVER temporarily downgrade their football programs lest it stick and become permanent.

# 14 would depend upon who #13 is. if its vcu than maybe wichita st makes sense. if its richmond it gets a little more difficult. do we go the market/cultural fit route and ignore bb success and go with detroit? (some of their olympic sports will fill voids) or with a vcu type? im not sure who fits that mold. (umass if they give up fbs fb?) i cant see uconn downgrading their fb

(02-16-2013 08:06 AM)thegalen Wrote:  but we're not exactly talking about adding Gonzaga or a killer, deliverable market here. For as much as everyone likes to play the "cultural fit" card, re-centering the Big East to the Midwest/Plains is an even bigger leap than adding a public (which, you know, the Big East has ALWAYS had).

But isn't this is a two-way street? Doesn't being a member of a conference bring value to a SCHOOL? It's not just the SCHOOL bringing value to the conference, right?

Those are rhetorical. It IS a two-way street. Let's look at Richmond. They joined the A-10 for the 2002 season. In the previous decade they had zero at-large bids: (1998, 14 seed; 1991, 15 seed).

In the 11 years since joining the A-10, they've earned THREE at-large bids: (2011, 12 seed; 2010, 7 seed; 2004, 11 seed). Because they were on TV, doubled their TV money, increased their recruiting budget, upgraded their facilities. They got A-10 kids instead of CAA kids.


The upgrades made their program better. Why wouldn't the same hold true for someone who joins the C7?


I said I could make an argument for St. Bonaventure as #14 that wouldn't sound THAT crazy. And this is exactly what I meant. The Bonnies had the welding scandal and were god-awful. But they find diamonds in the rough and have two NCAA bids in the last seven non-NCAA sanction years, including an at-large.


They're not going to bring much to the conference initially, but what happens TO the Bona program if they join the C7?

They'd be quadrupling their TV money, so they can promote the school better, make facility upgrades and recruit better.

Instead of playing Fordham, LaSalle, Saint Joe's, Duquesne, GW as their private-school rivals, they now have Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall and Marquette. So they can sell more and charge more for tickets.

Syracuse gets coverage in Rochester and Buffalo. Bona gets coverage there when they play/win big games; and when they play their neutral site OOC games there. What happens when Bona starts playing "Syracuse's Big East schedule" ? The Rochester and Buffalo papers are going to have a field day with it before every game against Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's.
Bona could play two neutral site games a year: One in Buffalo, One in Rochester; one non-conference, one conference.

If they play Georgetown at Blue Cross arena in Rochester, they whole Syracuse leaving the Big East for the ACC thing will blow up again. They'll get coverage (By the way, compare Bona and Syracuse in the 20 years before the Big East and A-10 were formed. Syracuse had 6 NCAA bids and 8 wins. Bona had 4 NCAA bids and 6 wins. It was playing the Big East giants that helped Syracuse get a stranglehold on all the Western New York markets)

Bonaventure does not deliver the Buffalo and Rochester markets NOW. But by the time the Syracuse/ACC, Bona/Big East angle dies down, they WILL deliver those two markets. It's where most their alumni actually live.

I think that makes a lot more sense than Wichita State. Wichita State is a better basketball program. Hands down. They deliver their entire market (#86; 625,526 people) now.

But you invest in Bona and they could bring you the #49 and #51 markets (2,189,317 total people) later. In the meantime, they go 4-12 in conference while they take their TV check and increase their recruiting budget.

It's a long-term plan, and it takes some serious balls. But I'm sure it would work out fine. The C7 founding members will get wins/NCAA bids at their expense while they improve their program. And you'll be able to go back to Fox Sports with the TV ratings in Buffalo and Rochester down the line and say "Give us more money."

Besides, the worst that happens is you have a Northwestern situation; where everyone else gets their wins against them in conference. In non-scandal years, Bona wins OOC at a high enough clip with A-10 recruits to not hurt the league at all. They'd get C7 recruits and win more OOC games, even if they're 4-12 in conference every year.