"And this is where I disagree with App Fans and their Sky is Falling and Private School dominated scenarios. They fail to take the full scope of things into perspective. If you take Coastal off the table, which has nothing to do with a public vs private debate, they just don't have support. GSU doesn't even want them.

Outside of that, there isn't even a public vs private voting bloc that agrees. First instance. Elon is not the same as Furman, Wofford or Davidson. Though academic missions are the same, Elon is growing while not killing their academic profile. It, roughly, is as big as those three put together and getting larger. Elon also was among the four schools that voted to keep ETSU in the first place. And plus, as the SoCon exists now, without App, Elon is a geographic outlier and contains a student body that is not at all near the makeup of any other SoCon school, geographically speaking. Elon and the CAA doing their dance is proof positive of that and proof positive that Elon and Public schools have no overall issue.

Samford is much in the same boat with their makeup of the TAAC and then OVC that they were members of. That leaves Furman, Wofford, Davidson as a voting bloc that I think has to be worried about, maybe, to an extent.

Despite it all, Mercer is all but a done deal even with App and GSU votes. The SoCon has to maintain Georgia and will maintain Georgia. ETSU is all but a done deal and that will solidify more public schools. Elon will be on the public school voting bloc for them too, and it gives another relatively nearby school for Elon.

The thing that App fans use is the admission of Samford and Elon as proof positive of some private school expansion type of mentality. Samford was unanimous. Elon didn't get a no vote. They were the best choices based on who was available for the fit.

If Kennesaw adds football, or North Florida you're going to see things happen differently.

UNCG is not going to go to a conference of misfit recent moveups, and you want to talk small school league, that's the Big South."

(02-05-2013 03:22 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 07:57 AM)Bruin2002 Wrote:  

(02-04-2013 10:40 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The talk about the OVC inviting UTC and ETSU has me a bit perplexed. Why would the western teams in that conference, specifically Eastern Illinois, S Ill-Edwardsville, and SE Mo St, vote for ETSU? With ETSU and UTC, would non-Tennessee schools really want two more TN schoools, giving Tennessee Higher Ed effective control of the conference?

There are already 12 basketball schools in the conference, so why would they vote to go to 14 and limit even more any chance that a school gets in the dance? With Belmont in, it is already that much more difficult. Furthermore, everyone's cut of the NCAA money gets further reduced. There has to be an overriding benefit, like saving on travel costs by splitting into divisions. UTC makes some sense as travel partner for Jacksonville St, but JSU wants to go FBS. So why try to placate a travel problem when that school is openly discussing other options?

The OVC has 9 scholarship football schools. Ideally it should probably have 10, but Morehead St is non-scholarship. The two non-football schools in the OVC are about markets and recruiting: SIU-E is in St Louis suburbs while of course Belmont is in Nashville. If markets and recruiting are a desire, why wouldn't the OVC take Kennesaw St? It plans to start football and would be a jackpot for recruiting and is actually easier to get to for OVC schools via direct interstate than ETSU. The Cumberlands really cut off ETSU in way that isn't as much of a travel problem with UTC (straight shot from Nashville). The school that is begging to get into the OVC is DII North Alabama. While it is DII, its football program is strong and it's easy travel for almost all current OVC schools.

Why should the OVC do anything until it actually loses a school? Maybe Belmont could move on to greener pastures or Jacksonville St actually lucks out and gets an FBS offer (they are way down the Sun Belt's list). Both probably need to leave for ETSU to get a decent shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Valley_Conference

Good points, but one more possibility to add. Tennessee State is considering moving to the SWAC. They have been talking about it, but wanted to wait until the new president was settled in before taking up the issue. The new president is there, so anything can happen.

For football attendance, could see TSU moving to the SWAC. But everything else would be a downgrade. Hasn't there been talk of a SWAC move for years?

Actually see the CAA as having more potential for ETSU than the OVC. The CAA may need all of ETSU, UTC, and Kennesaw St if James Madison and Delaware get FBS bids.

its got them talking,,,,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.maroon-nation.com/forum/viewt...?f=5&t=995

(02-06-2013 01:44 AM)One Of The Last Buc Linemen Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 03:22 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 07:57 AM)Bruin2002 Wrote:  

(02-04-2013 10:40 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The talk about the OVC inviting UTC and ETSU has me a bit perplexed. Why would the western teams in that conference, specifically Eastern Illinois, S Ill-Edwardsville, and SE Mo St, vote for ETSU? With ETSU and UTC, would non-Tennessee schools really want two more TN schoools, giving Tennessee Higher Ed effective control of the conference?

There are already 12 basketball schools in the conference, so why would they vote to go to 14 and limit even more any chance that a school gets in the dance? With Belmont in, it is already that much more difficult. Furthermore, everyone's cut of the NCAA money gets further reduced. There has to be an overriding benefit, like saving on travel costs by splitting into divisions. UTC makes some sense as travel partner for Jacksonville St, but JSU wants to go FBS. So why try to placate a travel problem when that school is openly discussing other options?

The OVC has 9 scholarship football schools. Ideally it should probably have 10, but Morehead St is non-scholarship. The two non-football schools in the OVC are about markets and recruiting: SIU-E is in St Louis suburbs while of course Belmont is in Nashville. If markets and recruiting are a desire, why wouldn't the OVC take Kennesaw St? It plans to start football and would be a jackpot for recruiting and is actually easier to get to for OVC schools via direct interstate than ETSU. The Cumberlands really cut off ETSU in way that isn't as much of a travel problem with UTC (straight shot from Nashville). The school that is begging to get into the OVC is DII North Alabama. While it is DII, its football program is strong and it's easy travel for almost all current OVC schools.

Why should the OVC do anything until it actually loses a school? Maybe Belmont could move on to greener pastures or Jacksonville St actually lucks out and gets an FBS offer (they are way down the Sun Belt's list). Both probably need to leave for ETSU to get a decent shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Valley_Conference

Good points, but one more possibility to add. Tennessee State is considering moving to the SWAC. They have been talking about it, but wanted to wait until the new president was settled in before taking up the issue. The new president is there, so anything can happen.

For football attendance, could see TSU moving to the SWAC. But everything else would be a downgrade. Hasn't there been talk of a SWAC move for years?

Actually see the CAA as having more potential for ETSU than the OVC. The CAA may need all of ETSU, UTC, and Kennesaw St if James Madison and Delaware get FBS bids.

its got them talking,,,,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.maroon-nation.com/forum/viewt...?f=5&t=995

Re: Chattanooga and ETSU to the OVC?
by Colonel Grad » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:36 pm

If I was OVC dictator for a day I would bring in UTC and ETSU (with football), cut SIUE and Martin. I'd also tell TSU that they have to play a complete football schedule or leave. If JSU and TSU choose to leave I would not be in a rush to replace them.

With that said, I do think SIUE will be a consistent top-half of the league men's and women's basketball teams. I think they will be far more competitive than UT Martin has been. While it's nice for the OVC to say they reach the St. Louis media market. Let's be honest, the OVC would get far more coverage in Johnson City and Chattanooga than it will ever get in St. Louis.

i thought this was a little intresting about socon/bigsouth. copied from this blog http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewt...14&p=67612 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So if Liberty leaves for the CAA or SBC and SoCon starts to backfill after losing App St and GA So to the SBC what is the likelyhood that the SoCon simply annexs all of the Big South's fb schools?

Samford
Chattanogga
Western Carolina
Gardner-Webb
Elon
VMI

Furman
Wofford
Presbyterian
Coastal Carolina
Charelston South
The Citadel

I know that Davidson and UN-Greensboro don't fit into the SC/nonSC divisions but its doable and it would pretty much make them the only fb power in the Carolinas area (outside of the HBUCs).

SWAC = HBUC Gulf
MEAC = HBUC Atlantic
Southland = Texas/Louisana
SoCon/Big South = Carolinas (could dominate the market)
MVFC = Great Lakes/Rust Belt/North
OVC = Tenn/Kentucky
Big Sky = West/Moutain/Pacific
Patriot = Non-Scholarship
CAA/Patriot/NEC/Ivy = all mixed no true ownership of footprint


Logical, simple, and clean. So no chance at all.

There is still so much that will need to shake out. Smart of the SoCon to try to move now as FCS could be in for a big shake up. There were rumors awhile back that the AEast was going to expand and it seemed to suggest that they may be thinking of sponsoring football. I've been wondering if the NEC leftovers from that and the Big South leftovers from SoCon expansion would be able to form a football only FCS conference. Maybe with fewer scholarships to entice some of the non scholarship schools to move up?

But now the SoCon is talking with the non scholarship schools and a potential ETSU school? I would have thought it would be the Big South doing that.

about socon, all this stuff i copied from http://thesportsarsenal.com/2013/01/30/c...itty-time/



East Tennessee State is apparently going to resuscitate its football program, and may have a chance to start things off with a well-known head coach if it so chooses. So, is it an automatic selection for the SoCon?
I’m not sure. Assuming that Appalachian State and Georgia Southern leave, the league would presumably want to add two football-playing schools. Perhaps ETSU could be one of those two schools. There are a couple of issues to consider.
1) As I mentioned earlier, it’s possible that some of the old guard SoCon institutions would like to the league to focus on bringing in smaller, more selective schools.
2) I think East Tennessee State may have to get in line behind VMI, a school with a much longer tradition within the conference, and the likely preference of most of the small-school bloc (Furman, The Citadel, Wofford, perhaps Elon, maybe Davidson).
There is also the possibility, however remote, that Mercer might be interested in eventually offering scholarships in football. Right now, of course, the Bears haven’t even played a game. Mercer’s gridiron program starts up this fall.
However, Mercer’s facilities will include a 40,000 square-foot field house and a stadium that will seat 10,000 (with 4,500 season tickets having already been sold, months before the opening game). That’s quite a setup for a school that isn’t playing scholarship football. Hmm.



- Kennesaw State: Reportedly had “preliminary conversations” with the SoCon (and the OVC) in 2011. However, it still hasn’t received the go-ahead to start its football program from Georgia’s Board of Regents. It seems to me that Kennesaw State is a less likely option than may have been thought a few months ago.



Speaking of the OVC, a school that doesn’t play football that has been mentioned in some quarters is Belmont. The Nashville school would be appealing to several league members, from a location aspect for some (UTC, Samford) to an institutional perspective for others (Davidson would probably invite Belmont to the prom).
The problem is twofold, though:
1) Travel costs for Belmont would be very high. It would be a geographic outlier in the SoCon.
2) The OVC is a much better basketball league right now than is the SoCon. Belmont is first and foremost a basketball school (and a very good one).





I favor Mercer’s admission, even without scholarship football, because A) it is a good school, in the geographic footprint, that would be a natural for the league in everything but football, and B) I don’t believe for a minute Mercer isn’t planning on adding scholarships within 10 years. Just look at that stadium. That isn’t a non-schollie stadium.
The reason the league would bring ETSU back, which I agree as an institution doesn’t quite fit what The Citadel would want in a perfect world, is that you need another football school (assuming ETSU does restart the sport), but you also need a school that has a hoops tradition that would appeal to a school like Davidson.

I couldn't see Belmont leaving the OVC for the SoCon right now. The SoCon does not suit their needs athletically and they aren't in the business of sustaining an athletic program to be anyone's travel partner.

Otherwise they'd still be in a conference with Lipscomb.

I think what ETSU fans really want, but nobody's come out and said it, is a two-bid league. Personally, I think if ETSU hadn't of dropped football the SoCon might have been a two-bid league. But with a stronger RPI for ETSU in the league, could it have tipped ASU or Davidson in one of those years? Who knows?

But an OVC with Murray State, Belmont, and ETSU (assuming they can restore past glories) as well as the rest of the field has some merit, especially if they can add another basketball school. That MIGHT be a two-bid league.

I've always been on record as saying I think the OVC is a "blah" league. It's your grandfather's conference. It's the central time zone. It's going to flyover country instead of going to somewhere reasonably exciting.

It's no savings in travel. It's playing in Illinois and not Florida or South Carolina or Georgia.

One thing would make it worthwhile, however. To those of us who know our history, it would be a huge slap in the face to the Mullins/Stanton regime if ETSU went to the OVC after those two guys led the effort to turn them down.

But the thought occurs.

Is Wayne Andrews still the president of Morehead State?

If he is, I can't imagine he would vote to accept ETSU. Doing so would be a direct slap in the face to his tenure and all he pushed for while he was here.

It would open up questions up there- "Hey, how come up here at Phil Simms University we can't have scholarship football? How come we're the only state school playing non-scholarship football? How come we can't do this and that?"

I won't come out and say it would be career suicide, but it would be steps in that direction for Andrews.

I have no idea what kind of influence Andrews sways in the OVC, if any. I don't even know if he's still the president there.

But it's something to consider. What ETSU wants they may not be able to have right now.

But I'll tell you something. In the end, I do think there is a path it could all work out even if ETSU can't get into the SoCon or OVC right away.

(02-05-2013 03:22 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 07:57 AM)Bruin2002 Wrote:  

(02-04-2013 10:40 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The talk about the OVC inviting UTC and ETSU has me a bit perplexed. Why would the western teams in that conference, specifically Eastern Illinois, S Ill-Edwardsville, and SE Mo St, vote for ETSU? With ETSU and UTC, would non-Tennessee schools really want two more TN schoools, giving Tennessee Higher Ed effective control of the conference?

There are already 12 basketball schools in the conference, so why would they vote to go to 14 and limit even more any chance that a school gets in the dance? With Belmont in, it is already that much more difficult. Furthermore, everyone's cut of the NCAA money gets further reduced. There has to be an overriding benefit, like saving on travel costs by splitting into divisions. UTC makes some sense as travel partner for Jacksonville St, but JSU wants to go FBS. So why try to placate a travel problem when that school is openly discussing other options?

The OVC has 9 scholarship football schools. Ideally it should probably have 10, but Morehead St is non-scholarship. The two non-football schools in the OVC are about markets and recruiting: SIU-E is in St Louis suburbs while of course Belmont is in Nashville. If markets and recruiting are a desire, why wouldn't the OVC take Kennesaw St? It plans to start football and would be a jackpot for recruiting and is actually easier to get to for OVC schools via direct interstate than ETSU. The Cumberlands really cut off ETSU in way that isn't as much of a travel problem with UTC (straight shot from Nashville). The school that is begging to get into the OVC is DII North Alabama. While it is DII, its football program is strong and it's easy travel for almost all current OVC schools.

Why should the OVC do anything until it actually loses a school? Maybe Belmont could move on to greener pastures or Jacksonville St actually lucks out and gets an FBS offer (they are way down the Sun Belt's list). Both probably need to leave for ETSU to get a decent shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Valley_Conference

Good points, but one more possibility to add. Tennessee State is considering moving to the SWAC. They have been talking about it, but wanted to wait until the new president was settled in before taking up the issue. The new president is there, so anything can happen.

For football attendance, could see TSU moving to the SWAC. But everything else would be a downgrade. Hasn't there been talk of a SWAC move for years?

Actually see the CAA as having more potential for ETSU than the OVC. The CAA may need all of ETSU, UTC, and Kennesaw St if James Madison and Delaware get FBS bids.

Tennessee State was originally supposed to enter the SWAC back in the late 90s along with Morris Brown. TSU's President at the time wanted more time to ponder on it, and Morris Brown got courted by the MEAC. The SWAC added Arkansas Pine-Bluff and Alabama A&M in 1998. TSU was extended an offer again in 2011 but they did not have a President at the time. The MEAC is currently thinking about adding TSU, and Alabama State and Alabama A&M so right now everything is up in the air.

Austin Peay is normally a very good basketball team (they stink this year, though). Coach Loos has been there for like 20 years and been very successful. The SoCon definitely makes more sense travel-wise but the OVC probably is a better basketball conference right now.

the morehead state posters have a discussion about nku in the ovc. a couple of them brought up etsu as a desired ovc pick,,,,,,,,,

from post #4
"Would love to pull ETSU out of that conference to join to OVC, but a lot of things will have to happen for that to happen."

from post $5
"I would still like UTC and/or ETSU in the east and Western Illinois in the west."

http://ovcsports.yuku.com/topic/2613/Nor...Rn3ph1EQrc

(02-08-2013 10:13 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  Tennessee State was originally supposed to enter the SWAC back in the late 90s along with Morris Brown. TSU's President at the time wanted more time to ponder on it, and Morris Brown got courted by the MEAC. The SWAC added Arkansas Pine-Bluff and Alabama A&M in 1998. TSU was extended an offer again in 2011 but they did not have a President at the time. The MEAC is currently thinking about adding TSU, and Alabama State and Alabama A&M so right now everything is up in the air.

If the MEAC added all of A&M, ASU, and TSU, that would give the MEAC 16 schools. If they wait for seven years, that league could split north and south into separate conferences and get almost twice the NCAA revenue between them as well as minimize travel.

MEAC
Del St
UMES
Coppin St
Morgan St
Howard
Norfolk St
Hampton
NC Central

New SE HBC Conference
F A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Savannah St
Ala A&M
Ala St
Tenn St
S Car St
NC A&T

The Horizon League has already lost Butler (and that spot hasn't been filled) and could lost a couple more to the A10 (like Detroit, possibly Loyola and Valpo) once the C7 / Big East split cascade begins.

Belmont moving to the Horizon has been a persistent rumor (the Horizon has amassed massive NCAA credits due to Butler) as well as Murray St and sometimes Morehead St. Murray St would have an issue with where to put its football, but the MVFC might have a spot for Murray St with the changes going on. Other schools that the Horizon may be looking at are Oakland, IUPUI, and Evansville.

It seems possible also that W Illinois and E Illinois would be reunited in either the OVC or Summit.

Also, the Kansas City Star reported that SIU-E may have interest in the WAC (UMKC just moved there).

Quote:Other potential WAC candidates are Omaha of the Summit and Southern Illinois-Edwardsville.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/07/405...rylink=cpy

Big Ten just announced that they wont be scheduling any more FCS teams. Thats going to significantly decrease the supply of "money" games for the FCS teams and makes the Sun Belt even more attractive for Appy State. Personally I think its a move that all BCS conferences need to do- though it would hurt football programs at our level.

(02-12-2013 10:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 10:13 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  Tennessee State was originally supposed to enter the SWAC back in the late 90s along with Morris Brown. TSU's President at the time wanted more time to ponder on it, and Morris Brown got courted by the MEAC. The SWAC added Arkansas Pine-Bluff and Alabama A&M in 1998. TSU was extended an offer again in 2011 but they did not have a President at the time. The MEAC is currently thinking about adding TSU, and Alabama State and Alabama A&M so right now everything is up in the air.

If the MEAC added all of A&M, ASU, and TSU, that would give the MEAC 16 schools. If they wait for seven years, that league could split north and south into separate conferences and get almost twice the NCAA revenue between them as well as minimize travel.

MEAC
Del St
UMES
Coppin St
Morgan St
Howard
Norfolk St
Hampton
NC Central

New SE HBC Conference
F A&M
Bethune-Cookman
Savannah St
Ala A&M
Ala St
Tenn St
S Car St
NC A&T

The plan is to break into north and South Divisions to cut down on travel and play a conference title game in football.