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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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Post: #1
Drop Athletics All Together?
I said this in another post but I do believe we are at a point where we either add football or we are going to drop to D2.

My question is what is the point with that. You either accept that athletics are never going to pay for themselves in the traditional matter and view them as marketing for your school or your say we're not going to lose money on any athletics and cut all the sports.

You would risk alienating donors who gave to capital improvements but that argument holds more water with me than football lost money - all sports lost money.

Is it time for ETSU to drop all athletics?
01-29-2013 11:30 AM
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etsudolfan Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 11:30 AM)KingsportBucsFan31 Wrote:  I said this in another post but I do believe we are at a point where we either add football or we are going to drop to D2.

My question is what is the point with that. You either accept that athletics are never going to pay for themselves in the traditional matter and view them as marketing for your school or your say we're not going to lose money on any athletics and cut all the sports.

You would risk alienating donors who gave to capital improvements but that argument holds more water with me than football lost money - all sports lost money.

Is it time for ETSU to drop all athletics?

No...that would not be smart and it doesn't add up. dropping to D2 doesn't line up with Noland's talk of growth and becoming a premium brand in athletics...thats regression
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2013 11:33 AM by etsudolfan.)
01-29-2013 11:31 AM
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You're my boy blue! Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
I understand the double standard that you're talking about.

Don't say that football is a money pit or that football losses money. People need to take a step back and realize that the only sport that has any potential of bringing in money for ETSU is football. All of the other sports Tennis, softball, track, soccer... those have always cost way more than they bring in and have no potential for creating exposure or generating revenue.

I wish that someone would figure out just how much men's soccer is losing a year. I'm sure that sport is a real money pit.
01-29-2013 11:44 AM
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etsudolfan Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 11:44 AM)Youre my boy blue! Wrote:  I understand the double standard that you're talking about.

Don't say that football is a money pit or that football losses money. People need to take a step back and realize that the only sport that has any potential of bringing in money for ETSU is football. All of the other sports Tennis, softball, track, soccer... those have always cost way more than they bring in and have no potential for creating exposure or generating revenue.

I wish that someone would figure out just how much men's soccer is losing a year. I'm sure that sport is a real money pit.

I can't bash soccer really, because I've been volunteering with coaching the high school team, but I would be curious to know how much each sport is gaining or losing financially. I had read a post by someone a while back that said the ETSU athletics budget in 03 was $5.2 million, with football comprising $1.2 mil of that total and we were losing around $4 mil. Can anyone confirm this info?
01-29-2013 11:50 AM
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PittsburghBucs Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Absolutely not.

Think of athletics as promotion for the university.

Pro sports this ain't. Only about 30 football programs in the country "make money" (the Alabamas, Notre Dames, etc.), yet some 120 programs alone play on a Division I level and I believe 700 colleges play football in some form or another (be it FBS to NAIA).
01-29-2013 11:50 AM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 11:50 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Absolutely not.

Think of athletics as promotion for the university.

Pro sports this ain't. Only about 30 football programs in the country "make money" (the Alabamas, Notre Dames, etc.), yet some 120 programs alone play on a Division I level and I believe 700 colleges play football in some form or another (be it FBS to NAIA).

I should say I am not saying that we should drop athletics just asking the question. But if the options are D2 or nothing I think ETSU should go with nothing.

My alma mater is a D3 and I participated but the more I look back on it the more I think that the money spent on my time as a baseball player was a waste for the college.
01-29-2013 12:05 PM
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PittsburghBucs Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
First of all, ETSU isn't going to drop athletics.

Second, perhaps a D-III doesn't do a lot for promotion of the school, but I don't know. I would think that Mount Union or Washington & Jefferson get a lot of exposure from their D-III football teams.

As much as Southern California? Of course not. But they aren't Southern California in the first place.

Admittedly both Mt. Union and W & J are big winners with great histories, but then again I see Emory & Henry getting 5,000 fans a football game the last time I checked and attention on WCYB's sportscasts. That probably does a lot of good in getting E & H in the mind of the locals around here.

You want to go down this path we have to ask; "Why does Sullivan East have sports?"
01-29-2013 12:23 PM
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RodShaw2 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
I don't understand the reasoning behind this question. It is not an either or deal. If ETSU doesn't bring back football that doesn't mean they should drop down to D II or drop sports all together and just the idea is silly. I would prefer football comes back, BUT if it does I want it to be done right with a chance of actually succeeding. If it is going to be half assed I am not interested, it would be just a money pit with no return on the investment. I when I say return on investment I don't mean money, I am not foolish enough to think ETSU football is going to make money anytime soon if ever, but football can bring alot to the table that would benefit the school.

If football is not going to be brought back or at least not properly then ETSU should focus its attention on the baskeball program and using it to advance, like we were promised when football was dropped. Mullins/Stanton botched that thoughly but when you think about it maybe we should thank for being incompetent, if they had been successful that would make bringing football back much harder, they could have claimed their model worked.

I don't see any reason why this should be make or break, it makes no sense to me.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2013 12:44 PM by RodShaw2.)
01-29-2013 12:43 PM
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BartowZone Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Or maybe we should just change our name to East Tennessee State Community College.... Your way of thinking is what is wrong with not only ETSU athletics, but the community as a whole.
01-29-2013 01:03 PM
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Goldfinger Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Kingsport was a very heavy Mullins supporter. Do not forget this.
01-29-2013 01:31 PM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Gold

I went back and searched my posts for when I have referenced Mullins. I have put them below but before skipping to them you need to realize something.

Despite you accusations both now and in the past I have never been in the pocket of the university. I have criticized both Mullins and Bartow in the past along with how programs have been run.

You attack everyone who disagrees with you in your own mini Lance Armstrong type way.

I have supported what I perceive to be good actions and criticized bad actions but I have never done so purely out of who took the actions as you seem to.


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=177...#pid102448
How many times do we have to read the same posts!!!!!! Pitt what are the odds that you can go until next Wednesday without complaining about Mullins, Stanton, Warren, or Murray's contract?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=274...pid2979884
Dr. Stanton has done alot of good things for the college on the academic side whether or not you like what he has done for athletics. I am not as familiar with the accomplishments of Dave Mullins and maybe the pressure to push forward should be laid there.


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=297...pid3298750

On the sports side it will be interesting to see what the new President does and who they bring in as athletic director. I can't imagine the new President not wanting to bring in their own personnel so I would think Dave Mullins might be out as well. It will be refreshing to get a new view on the athletic department.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=298...pid3310948
RE: Is this weekend Tony Skole's last stand?
I wonder if they will make any changes in coaching before the new president comes. I bet the new president will come in and replace Dave Mullins and then they can do that together.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=387...pid4632533
IF YOU GOT A BIG ENOUGH GROUP TOGETHER WITH BIG ENOUGH WALLETS IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF STANTON OR MULLINS WERE IN CHARGE YOU COULD BRING FOOTBALL BACK

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=387...pid4635627
I didn't say not to criticize Mullins and Stanton. But criticize them for their current decisions and things that could potentially change. Criticize them for how they deal with fund raising, criticize them for handling Bartow contracts, criticize them for marketing.

I just want people to quit focusing on what used to be and realistically has no chance of coming back. Or once again raise more money. In 6 years since football was dropped the members of this board and the BFFF haven't been able to do anything that actually moved the bar any closer bringing football back - I think its time to move on.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=425...pid5268920

On the money for the tournament question, I thought I would give you the answer that Dave Mullins gave to the Kingsport Kiwanis club on Friday when asked about that.

He said that payout is based on shares based on what round of the tournament your team makes it to. Last year the 1st round share was about $225,000.00. That money doesn't come to ETSU though. It goes to the conference who then splits it amongst the conference teams (it sounded like evenly). The ASun also gives an extra 15k to cover expenses not covered by NCAA travel allowance.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=496...pid6519816

RE: OFFICIAL - Belmont leaving ASUN for OVC
Interesting tidbits from this morning interview with Mullins on 640.

- Sounded like everyone in the conference was blindsided, including Lipscomb's AD
- They all found out when everyone else did
- Lipscomb's AD indicated to Dave that they were not looking at this time to move out but he did say everyone would have to go an look at thier options
- Apparently when Mullins told Bartow, Murray's reaction was that the league just got easier to win
- A number of callers asked him to explain football being dropped and he repeated a number of times that they made in the their minds a business decision and that dropping football had allowed them to invest in multiple other sports.
- When asked why every other TN school had solved the football problem he said that he didn't think they had solved it. He said they had chosen to maintain football at the expense of both academics and other sports and few had had success on the grid iron to prove it was worth it.
- Mullins had finished his interview and left the booth, then a caller called in and said a former tennis coach under Mullins had told him that Mullins was a football hater and that football would never come back with Mullins. - Mullins came back into studio because he heard the caller and laid it to him. He told him he had been to every home football game for 16 years, was friends with the football coaches, had gone to numerous away games in horrible weather and sat through them all, and that he still loves football. He said multiple times that he did not appreciate people throwing statements out there personally attacking him and the president versus the facts.

I am not passing judgement but I thought the board might be interested. If I am misrepresenting the interview in anyway please feel free to correct me. This was just what I took away from it.
01-29-2013 02:27 PM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 11:31 AM)etsudolfan Wrote:  
(01-29-2013 11:30 AM)KingsportBucsFan31 Wrote:  I said this in another post but I do believe we are at a point where we either add football or we are going to drop to D2.

My question is what is the point with that. You either accept that athletics are never going to pay for themselves in the traditional matter and view them as marketing for your school or your say we're not going to lose money on any athletics and cut all the sports.

You would risk alienating donors who gave to capital improvements but that argument holds more water with me than football lost money - all sports lost money.

Is it time for ETSU to drop all athletics?

No...that would not be smart and it doesn't add up. dropping to D2 doesn't line up with Noland's talk of growth and becoming a premium brand in athletics...thats regression

I don't think it works either and I think Noland wants football but I think without Football he doesn't want to be the laughing stock of D1.
01-29-2013 02:28 PM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 12:43 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I don't understand the reasoning behind this question. It is not an either or deal. If ETSU doesn't bring back football that doesn't mean they should drop down to D II or drop sports all together and just the idea is silly. I would prefer football comes back, BUT if it does I want it to be done right with a chance of actually succeeding. If it is going to be half assed I am not interested, it would be just a money pit with no return on the investment. I when I say return on investment I don't mean money, I am not foolish enough to think ETSU football is going to make money anytime soon if ever, but football can bring alot to the table that would benefit the school.

If football is not going to be brought back or at least not properly then ETSU should focus its attention on the baskeball program and using it to advance, like we were promised when football was dropped. Mullins/Stanton botched that thoughly but when you think about it maybe we should thank for being incompetent, if they had been successful that would make bringing football back much harder, they could have claimed their model worked.

I don't see any reason why this should be make or break, it makes no sense to me.

If you don't think dropping to D2 is an option then it doesn't make sense, but I truly believe that if the school doesn't bring back football that we might be headed that way. So the next step would be if we were faced with D2 or nothing I would rather have nothing as I think it would be an embarrassment and a true waste of money.
01-29-2013 02:30 PM
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BartowZone Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 02:28 PM)KingsportBucsFan31 Wrote:  [quote='etsudolfan' pid='8899889' dateline='1359477084']
[quote='KingsportBucsFan31' pid='8899887' dateline='1359477036']

I don't think it works either and I think Noland wants football but I think without Football he doesn't want to be the laughing stock of D1.

That is just air tight logic... Because we are the ONLY D1 university in America without football. I'm sure VCU is contemplating a move down since they are apparently the laughing stock of D1 as well.
01-29-2013 02:40 PM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
VCU is excelling in their premier sport. We have are languishing and in a downward spiral.

I never said I think we will definitely drop to D2 I think it is a realistic possibility and if it is I would rather not have sports. I am not tryign to present an air tight logic I am just throwing an idea out there for rational discussion but I forgot that this board is not the place to do that.

I should have learned my lesson to stay off these boards.
01-29-2013 02:45 PM
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Goldfinger Offline
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RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
(01-29-2013 02:27 PM)KingsportBucsFan31 Wrote:  Gold

I went back and searched my posts for when I have referenced Mullins. I have put them below but before skipping to them you need to realize something.

Despite you accusations both now and in the past I have never been in the pocket of the university. I have criticized both Mullins and Bartow in the past along with how programs have been run.

You attack everyone who disagrees with you in your own mini Lance Armstrong type way.

I have supported what I perceive to be good actions and criticized bad actions but I have never done so purely out of who took the actions as you seem to.


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=177...#pid102448
How many times do we have to read the same posts!!!!!! Pitt what are the odds that you can go until next Wednesday without complaining about Mullins, Stanton, Warren, or Murray's contract?

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=274...pid2979884
Dr. Stanton has done alot of good things for the college on the academic side whether or not you like what he has done for athletics. I am not as familiar with the accomplishments of Dave Mullins and maybe the pressure to push forward should be laid there.


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=297...pid3298750

On the sports side it will be interesting to see what the new President does and who they bring in as athletic director. I can't imagine the new President not wanting to bring in their own personnel so I would think Dave Mullins might be out as well. It will be refreshing to get a new view on the athletic department.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=298...pid3310948
RE: Is this weekend Tony Skole's last stand?
I wonder if they will make any changes in coaching before the new president comes. I bet the new president will come in and replace Dave Mullins and then they can do that together.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=387...pid4632533
IF YOU GOT A BIG ENOUGH GROUP TOGETHER WITH BIG ENOUGH WALLETS IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF STANTON OR MULLINS WERE IN CHARGE YOU COULD BRING FOOTBALL BACK

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=387...pid4635627
I didn't say not to criticize Mullins and Stanton. But criticize them for their current decisions and things that could potentially change. Criticize them for how they deal with fund raising, criticize them for handling Bartow contracts, criticize them for marketing.

I just want people to quit focusing on what used to be and realistically has no chance of coming back. Or once again raise more money. In 6 years since football was dropped the members of this board and the BFFF haven't been able to do anything that actually moved the bar any closer bringing football back - I think its time to move on.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=425...pid5268920

On the money for the tournament question, I thought I would give you the answer that Dave Mullins gave to the Kingsport Kiwanis club on Friday when asked about that.

He said that payout is based on shares based on what round of the tournament your team makes it to. Last year the 1st round share was about $225,000.00. That money doesn't come to ETSU though. It goes to the conference who then splits it amongst the conference teams (it sounded like evenly). The ASun also gives an extra 15k to cover expenses not covered by NCAA travel allowance.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=496...pid6519816

RE: OFFICIAL - Belmont leaving ASUN for OVC
Interesting tidbits from this morning interview with Mullins on 640.

- Sounded like everyone in the conference was blindsided, including Lipscomb's AD
- They all found out when everyone else did
- Lipscomb's AD indicated to Dave that they were not looking at this time to move out but he did say everyone would have to go an look at thier options
- Apparently when Mullins told Bartow, Murray's reaction was that the league just got easier to win
- A number of callers asked him to explain football being dropped and he repeated a number of times that they made in the their minds a business decision and that dropping football had allowed them to invest in multiple other sports.
- When asked why every other TN school had solved the football problem he said that he didn't think they had solved it. He said they had chosen to maintain football at the expense of both academics and other sports and few had had success on the grid iron to prove it was worth it.
- Mullins had finished his interview and left the booth, then a caller called in and said a former tennis coach under Mullins had told him that Mullins was a football hater and that football would never come back with Mullins. - Mullins came back into studio because he heard the caller and laid it to him. He told him he had been to every home football game for 16 years, was friends with the football coaches, had gone to numerous away games in horrible weather and sat through them all, and that he still loves football. He said multiple times that he did not appreciate people throwing statements out there personally attacking him and the president versus the facts.

I am not passing judgement but I thought the board might be interested. If I am misrepresenting the interview in anyway please feel free to correct me. This was just what I took away from it.

Those posts do nothing but dance around the fact you've always been against football and therefor have always been a supporter of the Mullins model. If memory serves correct, and I know that it does, you also attend tennis games (matches whatever). Enough of your drivel I know exactly who and what you are.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2013 02:51 PM by Goldfinger.)
01-29-2013 02:49 PM
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WingedWarrior Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
[/quote]

... Because we are the ONLY D1 university in America without football. ..
[/quote]

Not quite.

MAAC
Loyola University Maryland
Canisius
Fairfield
Iona
Manhattan
Niagara
Rider
St. Peters
Siena

Atlantic Sun
Belmont
Florida Gulf Coast University
Kennesaw State
Lipscomb
Mercer
North Florida
South Carolina Upstate
Stetson

Atlantic 10
UNC Charlotte
George Washington
La Salle
St. Bonaventure
Saint Joseph's
Saint Louis
Xavier
Big West
Cal State Fullerton
Cal State Northridge
Long Beach State
University of the Pacific
UC Irvine
UC Riverside
UC Santa Barbara

Horizon League
Cleveland State
Detroit Mercy
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Loyola University Chicago
UW-Milwaukee
University of Illinois at Chicago
Wright State

West Coast Conference
Gonzaga
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
Portland
Saint Mary's
San Francisco
Santa Clara
America East
SUNY Binghamton
Boston University
Hartford
Maryland, Baltimore County
Vermont

Summit League
IPFW
IUPUI
Missouri-Kansas City
Oakland
Oral Roberts

Great West
Chicago State
Houston Baptist
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Texas-Pan American
Utah Valley
Missouri Valley
Bradley
Creighton
Evansville
Wichita State

Independent
Cal State Bakersfield
Longwood
Seattle

There are others.
01-29-2013 02:55 PM
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KingsportBucsFan31 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Gold,

I have never attended a tennis game and if I had would that have been a problem. Before you ask - no I have not attended a soccer or softball game either for all that it matters. I go to basketball games and once in a blue moon baseball.

I am not a fan of ETSU football except in the context of getting us out of the ASun or keeping us from D2 and that is no secret. Being against the return of football in that context doesn't make me a Mullins supporter. Football has been dropped and I am only interested in what happens going forward. I was not interested in ETSU football before it was dropped and wasn't interest afterwards except with respects to how it has affected basketball - the premier sport of the school. I wasn't calling for it to be dropped but now that it has been I am not calling for it to return except as I said above.

I would appreciate you not attacking me personally. You know nothing of who and what I am.
01-29-2013 02:56 PM
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BartowZone Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Drop Athletics All Together?

... Because we are the ONLY D1 university in America without football. ..
[/quote]

Not quite.

MAAC
Loyola University Maryland
Canisius
Fairfield
Iona
Manhattan
Niagara
Rider
St. Peters
Siena

Atlantic Sun
Belmont
Florida Gulf Coast University
Kennesaw State
Lipscomb
Mercer
North Florida
South Carolina Upstate
Stetson

Atlantic 10
UNC Charlotte
George Washington
La Salle
St. Bonaventure
Saint Joseph's
Saint Louis
Xavier
Big West
Cal State Fullerton
Cal State Northridge
Long Beach State
University of the Pacific
UC Irvine
UC Riverside
UC Santa Barbara

Horizon League
Cleveland State
Detroit Mercy
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Loyola University Chicago
UW-Milwaukee
University of Illinois at Chicago
Wright State

West Coast Conference
Gonzaga
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
Portland
Saint Mary's
San Francisco
Santa Clara
America East
SUNY Binghamton
Boston University
Hartford
Maryland, Baltimore County
Vermont

Summit League
IPFW
IUPUI
Missouri-Kansas City
Oakland
Oral Roberts

Great West
Chicago State
Houston Baptist
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Texas-Pan American
Utah Valley
Missouri Valley
Bradley
Creighton
Evansville
Wichita State

Independent
Cal State Bakersfield
Longwood
Seattle

There are others.
[/quote]

You obviously are no fan of sarcasm. 03-yawn
01-29-2013 02:59 PM
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BartowZone Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Drop Athletics All Together?
Kingsport:
Let me get this straight. You do not want football to return, but you say that we are the laughing stock of D1 without it.
So you would rather see us drop to D2 than remain the laughing stock of D1 and would also rather see us drop to D2 than add football?
01-29-2013 03:22 PM
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