(01-25-2013 10:48 PM)CivilEng Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:36 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 07:35 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  nBE represents some pretty large markets. Wouldn't surprise me if their TV market size is larger than CUSA's.

nBE:

4 Philadelphia 2,949,310
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,588,020
8 Washington, DC 2,359,160
10 Houston 2,215,650
14 Tampa - St. Petersburg 1,806,560
19 Orlando-Daytona Beach 1,453,170
30 Hartford - New Haven 996,550
35 Cincinnati 897,890
49 Memphis 662,830
51 New Orleans 641,550
100 Greenville - Washington 303,280

17,771,860 Total TV Households

CUSA:

5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,588,020
10 Houston 2,215,650
16 Miami-Ft.Lauderdale 1,621,130
25 Charlotte 1,136,420
29 Nashville 1,014,910
36 San Antonio 881,050
42 Birmingham 717,530
44 Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News 709,730
59 Tulsa 526,960
65 Charleston - Huntington 455,490
82 Shreveport 384,410
91 El Paso 339,130
167 Hattiesburg - Laurel 109,950

12,700,380 Total TV Households (think BB was counting Miami twice)

http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/lo...s-dma.html

FIU and FAU are in two different TV markets. CUSA total TV Household is 14.5 Million.

And it's a no-brainer that larger (growing) public universities have larger numbers of TV sets in their respective constituency's metro areas, too. Didn't most of us
take some kind of math from 1'st grade to college graduation to be able to understand what the differences between large and small constituenices could be, right? I don't think
the NCAA has yet to change the math formulas which would affect large versus small, now have they?

Casepoint On Market Size Importance: If someone were going to purchase and register a new radio station with the FCC while looking for a city to build it would said new radio station owner be able to sell more advertisement in an area of 100,000 population versus one with 1,000,000 population?

Still, most conferences have a healthy balance of small, medium and large markets of which market size usually has no bearings on a program's ability to succeed. We're just talking about a conference's ability to sell to more potential TV advertisers which benefits an entire conference no matter each conference school's market size.

Addendum: The DFW Metroplex will soon pass Philly' and become the #4 ranked TV market. Texas is gaining even more in its weekly population numbers with California businesses and many of its citizens who want to move to a bustling, thriving "red state" with no state income tax that has not been (and refuses to be) infected by Washington D.C.'s suicidal spending spree tendencies.

(01-26-2013 03:41 AM)blazr Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

You're flat wrong, man. The percent of a market that follows a given team is a factor if choosing between programs in the same market (rather have Vanderbilt or Tennessee?), but it [does NOT matter otherwise. Unless you can dispute this point, your argument falls apart: universities have, obviously, unique marketing needs that require unique marketing plans and approaches. In the world of academia, the #1 issue universities face is name recognition. Whether it's a high-profile athlete, potential future Rhodes Scholar, or even a group being approached in a bid for research grants...if your mailed materials go straight to the trash or phone calls go unanswered, chances remain 0%.

Playing a football game (or basketball game for that matter) in a market gets a school's name in the paper, on local news, maybe more mentions than that, during game week or the days leading up to a contest. Front page, 2nd page, 10th page, leading TV news or mentioned at the tail-end...it makes no difference. UAB is a globally recognized medical research university, but that alone doesn't mean a high school senior in Tulsa who wants to study growing replacement organs for transplant and scored a perfect ACT/SAT knows any of that about the school. Being a conference member with Tulsa greatly increases the chances that when that student gets materials about UAB the name recognition hurdle doesn't exist.

Universities don't have the same outlets for advertising in large markets as your typical corporation or non-profit. TV networks just need inventory...and they need inventory in large markets because that's how they price their carrier fees. If ESPN has Alabama and Auburn, having UAB doesn't hurt. 5,000 or 10,000 or 200,000 extra eyeballs is not as big a difference as one might think when you're talking about markets that are already tapped (and there are no more untapped markets...at least not in the U.S.).


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I agree with your points, and understand the carrier fees vs. markets argument. But the market does not mean anything in terms of a school's following. It is the name recognition you refer to, that makes the difference.

This is precisely why the nBE was unable to secure the huge payout they thought they would. The market alone, was not enough.

Anyway, my point as a whole, was aimed at the OP comparison of the CUSA vs nBE market sizes.

(01-25-2013 07:35 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  nBE represents some pretty large markets. Wouldn't surprise me if their TV market size is larger than CUSA's.

Not only that the NBE is better endowed.

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Almost right. The Big 5 schools in small cities DO have markets. It's just that its their entire state. They are not regionalized to just one city. Take THAT into account and the SEC has more households than the nBE and CUSA combined.The same can be said for B1G.

I'm more interested in #of fans. 14 million TV sets would be impressive if that were how many were actually turned onto the games.

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(01-26-2013 09:20 AM)panama Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Almost right. The Big 5 schools in small cities DO have markets. It's just that its their entire state. They are not regionalized to just one city. Take THAT into account and the SEC has more households than te nBE and CUSA combined.The same can be said for B1G.

Concur. TV market is a useless stat, else ODU and George Mason would be in the ACC and VT and UVA would be in the CAA

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Denton isn't dallas
Murfersboro isn't Nashville

(01-26-2013 09:49 AM)panicstricken Wrote:  Denton isn't dallas
Murfersboro isn't Nashville

Both are squarely within the respective MSAs.

(01-26-2013 09:49 AM)panicstricken Wrote:  Denton isn't dallas
Murfersboro isn't Nashville

Is Claremore considered part of the Tulsa market? Is Norman part of the Oklahoma City market? So people in Claremore do not get Tulsa TV or radio stations? Claremore is so far away from Tulsa that no from there comes to Tulsa games? Are you saying that Tulsa can only draw a fan base from under a 25 mile radius of their stadium? Look at a map. Murfreesboro to Nashville; Denton to Dallas; Claremore to Tulsa are nearly equal distances. A media market consists of the hub city and its surrounding suburbs.

CUSA has the number one college football market in the country

(01-25-2013 10:48 PM)CivilEng Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:36 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 07:35 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  nBE represents some pretty large markets. Wouldn't surprise me if their TV market size is larger than CUSA's.

nBE:

4 Philadelphia 2,949,310
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,588,020
8 Washington, DC 2,359,160
10 Houston 2,215,650
14 Tampa - St. Petersburg 1,806,560
19 Orlando-Daytona Beach 1,453,170
30 Hartford - New Haven 996,550
35 Cincinnati 897,890
49 Memphis 662,830
51 New Orleans 641,550
100 Greenville - Washington 303,280

17,771,860 Total TV Households

CUSA:

5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,588,020
10 Houston 2,215,650
16 Miami-Ft.Lauderdale 1,621,130
25 Charlotte 1,136,420
29 Nashville 1,014,910
36 San Antonio 881,050
42 Birmingham 717,530
44 Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News 709,730
59 Tulsa 526,960
65 Charleston - Huntington 455,490
82 Shreveport 384,410
91 El Paso 339,130
167 Hattiesburg - Laurel 109,950

12,700,380 Total TV Households (think BB was counting Miami twice)

http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/lo...s-dma.html

FIU and FAU are in two different TV markets. CUSA total TV Household is 14.5 Million.

That is correct. Boca Raton is a little over an hour away from Miami.

(01-26-2013 09:24 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 09:20 AM)panama Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Almost right. The Big 5 schools in small cities DO have markets. It's just that its their entire state. They are not regionalized to just one city. Take THAT into account and the SEC has more households than te nBE and CUSA combined.The same can be said for B1G.

Concur. TV market is a useless stat, else ODU and George Mason would be in the ACC and VT and UVA would be in the CAA

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Actually my point is that VT and VA have their whole state as a market while George Mason and ODU have Fairfax and Norfolk.

(01-26-2013 10:16 AM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 09:49 AM)panicstricken Wrote:  Denton isn't dallas
Murfersboro isn't Nashville

Both are squarely within the respective MSAs.

That is absolutely true. The MSA of Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex includes Denton and The Nashville metro includes Murfreesboro.

It seems like some of you are missing the point entirely. The size of a conference's TV Market is extremely important. The Big 5 TV markets are extremely large because their following go beyond state lines. The reason it's even more important for the conferences in the gang of 5 is because we don't have such a great following. We need large markets so that even if a small percentage tunes in to watch our games, it will still translate to a good amount of TV sets.

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Illogical fallacy KSU and KU are involved in the Wichita, Kansas City, and Topeka markets. Mizzou = Springfield, St Louis, and Columbia. Nebraska carries Lincoln and Omaha. It helps with NE that they have no other teams or professional teams to compete with. Using your logic Uga doesn't carry Atlanta because they're in Athens. Btw almost all the markets listed are respectively within the top 100 dmas.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corpo...ration.pdf

(01-26-2013 12:35 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Illogical fallacy KSU and KU are involved in the Wichita, Kansas City, and Topeka markets. Mizzou = Springfield, St Louis, and Columbia. Nebraska carries Lincoln and Omaha. It helps with NE that they have no other teams or professional teams to compete with. Using your logic Uga doesn't carry Atlanta because they're in Athens. Btw almost all the markets listed are respectively within the top 100 dmas.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corpo...ration.pdf

That's exactly my point..... Those schools carry their state, or even region. The market they are located in, means little to nothing.
Point being, that the market numbers don't reflect the full picture, and can be misleading because the team may not carry that market. OR the team carries much more than that tv market (an entire region). In the case of CUSA/nBE, I can't think of any school that carries an entire large market.

(01-26-2013 11:23 AM)panama Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 09:24 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 09:20 AM)panama Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Almost right. The Big 5 schools in small cities DO have markets. It's just that its their entire state. They are not regionalized to just one city. Take THAT into account and the SEC has more households than te nBE and CUSA combined.The same can be said for B1G.

Concur. TV market is a useless stat, else ODU and George Mason would be in the ACC and VT and UVA would be in the CAA

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Actually my point is that VT and VA have their whole state as a market while George Mason and ODU have Fairfax and Norfolk.

Agree fellas.

(01-26-2013 12:44 PM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:35 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:28 AM)RUNVSFD MINER Wrote:  Markets don't mean anything. Someday, people will figure it out.

Lincoln NE, Manhattan KS, Lawrence KS, Columbia MO, etc. etc., have no market, but have followings.

It's a matter of who tunes in to watch.

Loyola Chicago, UC Santa Barbara, San Jose St, Houston, etc., have huge markets, but only a small fraction of people follow. Their loyalties lie with Illinois, USC, Stanford, TX, TX AM.


17 mill vs. 14 mill means absolutely nothing.

Illogical fallacy KSU and KU are involved in the Wichita, Kansas City, and Topeka markets. Mizzou = Springfield, St Louis, and Columbia. Nebraska carries Lincoln and Omaha. It helps with NE that they have no other teams or professional teams to compete with. Using your logic Uga doesn't carry Atlanta because they're in Athens. Btw almost all the markets listed are respectively within the top 100 dmas.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corpo...ration.pdf

That's exactly my point..... Those schools carry their state, or even region. The market they are located in, means little to nothing.
Point being, that the market numbers don't reflect the full picture, and can be misleading because the team may not carry that market. OR the team carries much more than that tv market (an entire region). In the case of CUSA/nBE, I can't think of any school that carries an entire large market.

Maybe UCONN?

(01-25-2013 11:06 PM)NTTHOR Wrote:  freakin hattiesburg!!! didn't realize the city was so small...can't say i've ever driven through the town...but want to make the road trip this year for football!

It's more than twice the size of Starkville (Mississippi State) and Oxford (Ole Miss).

Tulsa's stats are skewed because probably 45 percent of the people that work and shop in Tulsa live in the burbs surrounding Tulsa. And most of those burbs are just right outside the city limits.