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Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
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Sundanceuiuc Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
All is well that ends well.

Black has learned a lesson and still contributed.
Pastner did what he had to do to retain order
Team performs well.

All good.
01-23-2013 04:44 PM
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MemphisTigerPawr Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
This was some topic of debate in the official game thread. For the record, I appreciate Coach Pastner being willing to make these kinds of tough decisions and think it bodes well for the longer term chemistry and development of our team. Good post OleGus!
01-23-2013 04:44 PM
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Tiger46 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 04:44 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  This was some topic of debate in the official game thread. For the record, I appreciate Coach Pastner being willing to make these kinds of tough decisions and think it bodes well for the longer term chemistry and development of our team. Good post OleGus!

These are tough decisions for a coach, and someone like Tarik is not a jar head, he's about to graduate a year early.

My philosophy is that won-loss records are not kept in practice so that's where your discipline needs to be dealt with. Tell the player, I am starting you tonight, if you don't play your butt off, you will sit.

I wouldn't mess with someone's head who has started since the day he arrived on campus.

I don't know the whole story, but it's crazy.
01-23-2013 05:02 PM
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Tigerfan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 12:54 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 12:51 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 12:46 PM)olegus Wrote:  I have not seen this subject adressed here as I wish to adress it, if it has and I missed it then somoone can just say Pope" but please read on in either event.
When I read that Tarik had refused to re-enter the Harvard game in the second half my first thoughts were that Coach Pastner should dismiss him from the team. Looking back I am thinking that maybe that was just a knee-jerk reaction. I was reminded of an incident that happened at Tennessee when Kevin O' Neil had just become coach.A player got angry in practice and walked off the floor. The next day the player appeared at the coaches office before practice and asked what he must do to atone for his actions the day before. The story goes that Coach O'Niel said something to the effect. " I don't give a damn what you do. You quit , now get out of my office." Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do I leave for others to debate, but I can assure you that no one else left practice that year and there was no question as to who was in charge of the ship.
Coach Pastner had to establish that he and only he is in charge of the ship. Not the fans , nor the players ,nor hanger oners, or anyone else but he and he alone. A giant step was taken in that direction last evening. It was not about a half of basketball,of a game of basketball or even a season. In my opinion it was about Coach Pastner showing everyone involved that he is in charge. Not for just a half or a game or even a season, but from now on.
Coach Pastner handled a bad situation in a skillful manner. Tarik is now back as part of the team and everyone seems happy, the rest of the team included. He demonstrated his value to the team last evening. I am not sure we could have won with out him in the second half.
I don't think that Tarik or anyone else will refuse re-entry in the future. Josh Pastner has affirmed himself as our coach and I give him my full support for what ever little that is worth and ask the rest of you to do the same. I will be there Saturday to offer that support and to cheer for the Tigers . See you there . Go Tigers.

Write this in stone.

In paragraphs...
03-lmfao
Since no one else mentioned TigerBlue4Ever's quip, I thought I'd say I personally found this to be hilarious.
01-23-2013 05:34 PM
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TigerTimmy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 04:33 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:58 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:51 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 01:19 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Is there a credible link that says Tarik Black refused to enter the Harvard game?

That would be the same links previously given in response to your same question in another thread.

And, those links refer to interviews with Josh.

That's about as credible as you are going to find.

None of those links said anything about Black refusing to enter the game. There is a big difference between a player sulking on the bench and refusing to play for his team. I am calling BS on this story.

And?

The guy who tweeted this should have retracted it.
01-23-2013 06:39 PM
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oldtiger Away
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Post: #26
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 12:50 PM)mphsfan Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 12:46 PM)olegus Wrote:  I have not seen this subject adressed here as I wish to adress it, if it has and I missed it then somoone can just say Pope" but please read on in either event.

When I read that Tarik had refused to re-enter the Harvard game in the second half my first thoughts were that Coach Pastner should dismiss him from the team. Looking back I am thinking that maybe that was just a knee-jerk reaction. I was reminded of an incident that happened at Tennessee when Kevin O' Neil had just become coach.

A player got angry in practice and walked off the floor. The next day the player appeared at the coaches office before practice and asked what he must do to atone for his actions the day before. The story goes that Coach O'Niel said something to the effect. " I don't give a damn what you do. You quit , now get out of my office."

Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do I leave for others to debate, but I can assure you that no one else left practice that year and there was no question as to who was in charge of the ship.

Coach Pastner had to establish that he and only he is in charge of the ship. Not the fans , nor the players ,nor hanger oners, or anyone else but he and he alone. A giant step was taken in that direction last evening. It was not about a half of basketball,of a game of basketball or even a season. In my opinion it was about Coach Pastner showing everyone involved that he is in charge. Not for just a half or a game or even a season, but from now on.

Coach Pastner handled a bad situation in a skillful manner. Tarik is now back as part of the team and everyone seems happy, the rest of the team included. He demonstrated his value to the team last evening. I am not sure we could have won with out him in the second half.

I don't think that Tarik or anyone else will refuse re-entry in the future. Josh Pastner has affirmed himself as our coach and I give him my full support for what ever little that is worth and ask the rest of you to do the same. I will be there Saturday to offer that support and to cheer for the Tigers . See you there . Go Tigers.

paragraphed

Agree 100% with olegus.....thank you sir.

Additionally, many thanks to mphsfan for making it a little easier to read.
01-23-2013 06:52 PM
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TigerBill Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 06:39 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 04:33 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:58 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:51 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 01:19 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Is there a credible link that says Tarik Black refused to enter the Harvard game?

That would be the same links previously given in response to your same question in another thread.

And, those links refer to interviews with Josh.

That's about as credible as you are going to find.

None of those links said anything about Black refusing to enter the game. There is a big difference between a player sulking on the bench and refusing to play for his team. I am calling BS on this story.

And?

The guy who tweeted this should have retracted it.

Okay, I guess.
01-23-2013 08:04 PM
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dan o Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 03:58 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:51 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 01:19 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Is there a credible link that says Tarik Black refused to enter the Harvard game?

That would be the same links previously given in response to your same question in another thread.

And, those links refer to interviews with Josh.

That's about as credible as you are going to find.

None of those links said anything about Black refusing to enter the game. There is a big difference between a player sulking on the bench and refusing to play for his team. I am calling BS on this story.

It looks as if you have chosen to latch onto demanding a spoken phrase by Tarik that said he "refused to enter" while ignoring the circumstances as described by Coach Pastner.

In the other thread where you asked the very same thing about credible links---here is the dialogue:

dan o Wrote:
Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Looked checked out to me. Pastner says some guys "sensitive." RT @MemphisSissy: @TheCAJasonSmith what's going on with Tarik?


L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Bottom line: Tigers have too many guys doing things right way, playing through their struggles, to stop and wait for someone to catch up.

L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
In responding to my ? on Black, Pastner started on Ferro: "Ferrakohn didn't play, but he was tremendous on the bench. He was pumping us up."


Memphis Tigers see big lead evaporate, come back to defeat Harvard, 60-50
By Jason Smith

Posted January 19, 2013 at 1:37 p.m., updated January 19, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
In the meantime, junior forward Tarik Black, who sat out a game earlier this season after walking out of a practice, sat stone-faced on the bench down the stretch while his teammates stood and cheered around him. Black played just four minutes in the second half, finishing with two points and four rebounds in 12 minutes.
Asked afterward about Black’s mood on the bench, Pastner said: “We don’t have time to wait. Guys sometimes can be sensitive on things, but the bottom line is the caravan’s moving forward. Tarik is on the caravan, it’s just I’m not gonna baby-sit during the game. If you’re producing, you play. If you don’t produce, you sit.”

Geoff Calkins: It's D.J. to the rescue, again

The Tigers blow leads because they stop trying quite so hard. They don't play with the same fury when they get up big. There is no great mystery to this. It might even be expected and natural. The only mystery is why more of the Tigers haven't noticed the way Stephens plays and see if it could work for them, too.
Seriously, if you're Adonis Thomas or Tarik Black, why don't you say to yourself, "Geez, I'm more talented than D.J. Why don't I try to do what he does? Why don't I bust my butt ever single moment I'm on the court? Imagine the good things I could do."






TigerTimmy Wrote
Where does Jason Smith say Tarik Black refused to go in the game?

dan o Wrote:

Interpret it to suit yourself. I never said that he wrote that.

You implied [so it seemed] that an anonymous tweet was the only source for Black not playing anymore.

The interviews with Josh indicate that he was bypassed for more play because of a bad attitude.


That is about as credible of a link as you are going to get as to Black's pouting, sulking attitude which communicated to Josh that he didn't want to play anymore. Thus, Josh skipped over him in the rotation, and explained that Tarik's attitude and expression and body language, et al convinced him that he did not want to go back into the game.

Once again, you can interpret all of that to suit yourself, but Josh made it perfectly clear---to most folks

It's over now and everyone is ready to move on, but there was a situation that Josh clearly interpreted as Tarik not wanting to re-enter the game.

As I said before, accept what Josh had to say or else interpret it to suit your own beliefs. But, there is no need to seek "credible links" beyond those now provided---twice.
01-23-2013 08:58 PM
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Stammers Online
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Post: #29
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
Year 1 - NO players, no depth, no options, rookie coach, players probably walked all over him. Spent the year getting ****** by Sallie, Spoon, Niles

Year 2 - Young players, no experience, no leadership, still not great depth, coming off of the Sallie, Niles, Garcia, Kendrick fiascos; still has to tread a little bit lightly

Year 3 - Getting a bit better, players getting more accountable, but still dealing with JJ mess; getting more affirmative and the players probably don't like the change from the country club

Year 4 - Dealt with JJ mess QUICKLY; sat him almost an entire game; JJ has been great since. Problem with Black, dealt with it (I think in the best way), now starting to give Crawford what he deserves

Year 5 - Don't want to speculate on Black staying or going, but he will be the difference between Pastner FINALLY having experience, talent and depth, or having a little bit of a hole to fill. Next year is make or break and probably the first year that Pastner will be able to coach exactly how he wants.
01-23-2013 08:59 PM
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Stammers Online
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Post: #30
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 08:58 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:58 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:51 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 01:19 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Is there a credible link that says Tarik Black refused to enter the Harvard game?

That would be the same links previously given in response to your same question in another thread.

And, those links refer to interviews with Josh.

That's about as credible as you are going to find.

None of those links said anything about Black refusing to enter the game. There is a big difference between a player sulking on the bench and refusing to play for his team. I am calling BS on this story.

It looks as if you have chosen to latch onto demanding a spoken phrase by Tarik that said he "refused to enter" while ignoring the circumstances as described by Coach Pastner.

In the other thread where you asked the very same thing about credible links---here is the dialogue:

dan o Wrote:
Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Looked checked out to me. Pastner says some guys "sensitive." RT @MemphisSissy: @TheCAJasonSmith what's going on with Tarik?


L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Bottom line: Tigers have too many guys doing things right way, playing through their struggles, to stop and wait for someone to catch up.

L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
In responding to my ? on Black, Pastner started on Ferro: "Ferrakohn didn't play, but he was tremendous on the bench. He was pumping us up."


Memphis Tigers see big lead evaporate, come back to defeat Harvard, 60-50
By Jason Smith

Posted January 19, 2013 at 1:37 p.m., updated January 19, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
In the meantime, junior forward Tarik Black, who sat out a game earlier this season after walking out of a practice, sat stone-faced on the bench down the stretch while his teammates stood and cheered around him. Black played just four minutes in the second half, finishing with two points and four rebounds in 12 minutes.
Asked afterward about Black’s mood on the bench, Pastner said: “We don’t have time to wait. Guys sometimes can be sensitive on things, but the bottom line is the caravan’s moving forward. Tarik is on the caravan, it’s just I’m not gonna baby-sit during the game. If you’re producing, you play. If you don’t produce, you sit.”

Geoff Calkins: It's D.J. to the rescue, again

The Tigers blow leads because they stop trying quite so hard. They don't play with the same fury when they get up big. There is no great mystery to this. It might even be expected and natural. The only mystery is why more of the Tigers haven't noticed the way Stephens plays and see if it could work for them, too.
Seriously, if you're Adonis Thomas or Tarik Black, why don't you say to yourself, "Geez, I'm more talented than D.J. Why don't I try to do what he does? Why don't I bust my butt ever single moment I'm on the court? Imagine the good things I could do."






TigerTimmy Wrote
Where does Jason Smith say Tarik Black refused to go in the game?

dan o Wrote:

Interpret it to suit yourself. I never said that he wrote that.

You implied [so it seemed] that an anonymous tweet was the only source for Black not playing anymore.

The interviews with Josh indicate that he was bypassed for more play because of a bad attitude.


That is about as credible of a link as you are going to get as to Black's pouting, sulking attitude which communicated to Josh that he didn't want to play anymore. Thus, Josh skipped over him in the rotation, and explained that Tarik's attitude and expression and body language, et al convinced him that he did not want to go back into the game.

Once again, you can interpret all of that to suit yourself, but Josh made it perfectly clear---to most folks

It's over now and everyone is ready to move on, but there was a situation that Josh clearly interpreted as Tarik not wanting to re-enter the game.

As I said before, accept what Josh had to say or else interpret it to suit your own beliefs. But, there is no need to seek "credible links" beyond those now provided---twice.

If Tarik got the same treatment JJ did against Minnesota, then I think it's great. There are a lot of hard working players on the team. It creates dissension and is an insult to the rest of the team when you have a couple of players that don't play hard enough, and they still get minutes.

At the beginning of the season JJ and Crawford weren't working hard enough. Obviously Black has an attitude problem. Pastner has now addressed all 3 problems in a very direct and fair manner. I think that there is an 80% chance that the team will now start to really put it together, and a 20% chance that he loses the players. I like those odds.
01-23-2013 09:04 PM
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dan o Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 09:04 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 08:58 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:58 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 03:51 PM)dan o Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 01:19 PM)TigerTimmy Wrote:  Is there a credible link that says Tarik Black refused to enter the Harvard game?

That would be the same links previously given in response to your same question in another thread.

And, those links refer to interviews with Josh.

That's about as credible as you are going to find.

None of those links said anything about Black refusing to enter the game. There is a big difference between a player sulking on the bench and refusing to play for his team. I am calling BS on this story.

It looks as if you have chosen to latch onto demanding a spoken phrase by Tarik that said he "refused to enter" while ignoring the circumstances as described by Coach Pastner.

In the other thread where you asked the very same thing about credible links---here is the dialogue:

dan o Wrote:
Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Looked checked out to me. Pastner says some guys "sensitive." RT @MemphisSissy: @TheCAJasonSmith what's going on with Tarik?


L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
Bottom line: Tigers have too many guys doing things right way, playing through their struggles, to stop and wait for someone to catch up.

L. Jason Smith @TheCAJasonSmith
In responding to my ? on Black, Pastner started on Ferro: "Ferrakohn didn't play, but he was tremendous on the bench. He was pumping us up."


Memphis Tigers see big lead evaporate, come back to defeat Harvard, 60-50
By Jason Smith

Posted January 19, 2013 at 1:37 p.m., updated January 19, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
In the meantime, junior forward Tarik Black, who sat out a game earlier this season after walking out of a practice, sat stone-faced on the bench down the stretch while his teammates stood and cheered around him. Black played just four minutes in the second half, finishing with two points and four rebounds in 12 minutes.
Asked afterward about Black’s mood on the bench, Pastner said: “We don’t have time to wait. Guys sometimes can be sensitive on things, but the bottom line is the caravan’s moving forward. Tarik is on the caravan, it’s just I’m not gonna baby-sit during the game. If you’re producing, you play. If you don’t produce, you sit.”

Geoff Calkins: It's D.J. to the rescue, again

The Tigers blow leads because they stop trying quite so hard. They don't play with the same fury when they get up big. There is no great mystery to this. It might even be expected and natural. The only mystery is why more of the Tigers haven't noticed the way Stephens plays and see if it could work for them, too.
Seriously, if you're Adonis Thomas or Tarik Black, why don't you say to yourself, "Geez, I'm more talented than D.J. Why don't I try to do what he does? Why don't I bust my butt ever single moment I'm on the court? Imagine the good things I could do."






TigerTimmy Wrote
Where does Jason Smith say Tarik Black refused to go in the game?

dan o Wrote:

Interpret it to suit yourself. I never said that he wrote that.

You implied [so it seemed] that an anonymous tweet was the only source for Black not playing anymore.

The interviews with Josh indicate that he was bypassed for more play because of a bad attitude.


That is about as credible of a link as you are going to get as to Black's pouting, sulking attitude which communicated to Josh that he didn't want to play anymore. Thus, Josh skipped over him in the rotation, and explained that Tarik's attitude and expression and body language, et al convinced him that he did not want to go back into the game.

Once again, you can interpret all of that to suit yourself, but Josh made it perfectly clear---to most folks

It's over now and everyone is ready to move on, but there was a situation that Josh clearly interpreted as Tarik not wanting to re-enter the game.

As I said before, accept what Josh had to say or else interpret it to suit your own beliefs. But, there is no need to seek "credible links" beyond those now provided---twice.

If Tarik got the same treatment JJ did against Minnesota, then I think it's great. There are a lot of hard working players on the team. It creates dissension and is an insult to the rest of the team when you have a couple of players that don't play hard enough, and they still get minutes.

At the beginning of the season JJ and Crawford weren't working hard enough. Obviously Black has an attitude problem. Pastner has now addressed all 3 problems in a very direct and fair manner. I think that there is an 80% chance that the team will now start to really put it together, and a 20% chance that he loses the players. I like those odds.

I like them as well.

We will be a much smarter and tougher team by March.
01-23-2013 09:14 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-23-2013 08:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Year 1 - NO players, no depth, no options, rookie coach, players probably walked all over him. Spent the year getting ****** by Sallie, Spoon, Niles

Year 2 - Young players, no experience, no leadership, still not great depth, coming off of the Sallie, Niles, Garcia, Kendrick fiascos; still has to tread a little bit lightly

Year 3 - Getting a bit better, players getting more accountable, but still dealing with JJ mess; getting more affirmative and the players probably don't like the change from the country club

Year 4 - Dealt with JJ mess QUICKLY; sat him almost an entire game; JJ has been great since. Problem with Black, dealt with it (I think in the best way), now starting to give Crawford what he deserves

Year 5 - Don't want to speculate on Black staying or going, but he will be the difference between Pastner FINALLY having experience, talent and depth, or having a little bit of a hole to fill. Next year is make or break and probably the first year that Pastner will be able to coach exactly how he wants.

^This. +3
01-24-2013 10:11 AM
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boss man Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-24-2013 10:11 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-23-2013 08:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Year 1 - NO players, no depth, no options, rookie coach, players probably walked all over him. Spent the year getting ****** by Sallie, Spoon, Niles

Year 2 - Young players, no experience, no leadership, still not great depth, coming off of the Sallie, Niles, Garcia, Kendrick fiascos; still has to tread a little bit lightly

Year 3 - Getting a bit better, players getting more accountable, but still dealing with JJ mess; getting more affirmative and the players probably don't like the change from the country club

Year 4 - Dealt with JJ mess QUICKLY; sat him almost an entire game; JJ has been great since. Problem with Black, dealt with it (I think in the best way), now starting to give Crawford what he deserves

Year 5 - Don't want to speculate on Black staying or going, but he will be the difference between Pastner FINALLY having experience, talent and depth, or having a little bit of a hole to fill. Next year is make or break and probably the first year that Pastner will be able to coach exactly how he wants.

^This. +3

Agreed - nice analysis of the Pastner coaching timeline and issues.

Year 5 will also be a season with a LOT of talented players competing for minutes on the court. That will be the stick Pastner can use on everyone. "Well, it seems {insert any player name} is skipping class / showing an attitude / not going hard in practice / late for practice or meeting / etc.. TAKE A TIME OUT ON THE BENCH FOR A WHILE."

Pastner is starting to flex his authority a bit more. I agree Crawford is his current project. Geron Johnson is probably next. Perhaps A. Barton as well but for some reason, I think AB has his head on right. As does Shaq and Wilson.

JJ, Tarik, Crawford, Johnson. Maybe AB. Then he'll have all of the players who will be seniors next season locked in on how things work at MEMPHIS. The new recruits coming in next fall will be indoctrinated into the workout & practice culture by the senior leadership and respond quickly.

Everything seems to be coming together for MEMPHIS' first season in the Big East. Oh, and it seems nearly all of the departing schools WILL in fact play in the Big East next year. So the schedule will include the Catholic 7, Louisville, Notre Dame, etc. Plus the mid March tourney at the Garden in NYC.

TOO SWEET.
01-24-2013 02:27 PM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
here is what I will say:

I would never hold up anything Kevin O'Neil does as a good way to handle a situation. That's why he can't hold a job and everybody who comes into contact with him thinks he's an a$shole

Kevin O' Neil sucks, that is all
01-24-2013 03:39 PM
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Stammers Online
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Post: #35
RE: Last night was about a lot more than a half of basketball
(01-24-2013 03:39 PM)jgardne Wrote:  here is what I will say:

I would never hold up anything Kevin O'Neil does as a good way to handle a situation. That's why he can't hold a job and everybody who comes into contact with him thinks he's an a$shole

Kevin O' Neil sucks, that is all

It's a pity that he is an ******* on the court, because Kevin O'Neil is one of the most fun guys to hang out with on the planet off of the court. Cal didn't really have to deal with Niles, Sallie, Witherspoon and Garcia, because they hardly played for him.

It was find for him to park them at the end of the bench because he had other, much better options.
01-24-2013 05:25 PM
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