This is a serious question. I'm not trying to stir up trouble. I'll even admit it - I'm ignorant when it comes to politics (which means I am ignorant when it comes to gun control).

- But why do people think that the new gun control laws are 'ruining the Constitution' or taking away our 2nd amendment right, etc., etc.?
- From what I understand, people can still own hand guns. It's not like guns are being banned outright. You can still own a gun(s).
- What is the big deal about banning assault/military type weapons (and don't go into the semantics about what assault weapons are/are not)? WHY do people even need these type of weapons?
- What is the big deal about banning high-capacity magazines? Why do people need magazines that have 10+ rounds?
- What is the big deal about having background checks?

Keep this civil - don't go calling people idiots, etc. And DON'T turn it into a f****** political debate. I f****** hate politics because people turn into immature, name calling kids when they talk about politics.

Here is what the 2nd Amendment is really about. The 2nd Amendment allows citizens to form militia's to defend our turf against foreign invaders or against our own government. The reason why we won our Independence was because farmers and average citizens was able to have better guns than the Brits. I'm not advocating the average citizen own M16's and AK47's but the average citizen should be able to acquire them if/when sh*t hits the fan.

10 round magazines aren't going to stop mass shootings/massacres. They're only going to slow down the shooter a little. I could reload within 3 seconds. And with 2 semi auto 9's I could fire off 20 rounds in 10 seconds reload and fire another 20 rounds. So yes with 2 glock 9's I could easily take out 20-30 people in a minute. And we're not even talking about an "assault" rifle.

Bottom line is they want military style weapons to protect themselves from US troops.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - But why do people think that the new gun control laws are 'ruining the Constitution' or taking away our 2nd amendment right, etc., etc.?

The 2nd Amendment is about two things. Personal defense and civil defense from enemies foreign and domestic. Police and other law enforcement officers maintain automatic weapon supplies as well as our armed forces. The Founders gave us the right to bear arms should we need to overthrow the government by force, therefore having access to the same average weapons as the police and army are vital guarantees against government tyranny.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - From what I understand, people can still own hand guns. It's not like guns are being banned outright. You can still own a gun(s).

Yes we can still own guns, but only those significantly inferior to the ones the government forces and criminals will have access to.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - What is the big deal about banning assault/military type weapons (and don't go into the semantics about what assault weapons are/are not)? WHY do people even need these type of weapons?

Think the answer to your first question applies here as well.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - What is the big deal about banning high-capacity magazines? Why do people need magazines that have 10+ rounds?

Because the government forces and criminals will still have high capacity magazines. Also, the typical magazine is thin metal box with a spring in it; how on earth does the FedGov propose to stop people from making homemade "high capacity" magazines?

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - What is the big deal about having background checks?

Every government that has ban guns started with a national registry of guns first. The FedGov has no right to keep track of how we choose to exercise our Constitutional rights, especially inside our own homes where most law abiding citizens keep their arms. If they can regulate and track our weapons, they'll know where they are when they come to take them.



The bottom line is that our right to keep and bear effective weapons not only gives our leaders a reason to stay reasonable, but also guarantee all our other freedoms and makes the United States a less tempting target to potential invaders.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  - But why do people think that the new gun control laws are 'ruining the Constitution' or taking away our 2nd amendment right, etc., etc.?

People don't think gun control laws are weakening the second amendment they thing bans and recorded registration of certain weapons are.

By definition banning a weapon is restricting second amendment rights.

Quote:- From what I understand, people can still own hand guns. It's not like guns are being banned outright. You can still own a gun(s).

Hand guns are not sufficient to the purpose of the second amendment and shotguns are actually far more deadly than precision rifles. The purpose of the bans like the one in New York are just to further stick the camels nose in the tent.

It's also important to note that the vast majority of gun related killings in the US *ARE* handguns.

Quote:- What is the big deal about banning assault/military type weapons (and don't go into the semantics about what assault weapons are/are not)? WHY do people even need these type of weapons?

In their various letters and writings he founders made the purpose of the second amendment quite clear. It was not hunting or home defense but to keep an armed citizenry as a counter balance against the possibility of Government tyranny. If there had been a rifle ban in the 1700's the Americans would not have prevailed.

And the semantics of what is an assault weapon is very important. Its shows that the laws being pushed are in the end pointless restrictions on law abiding people.

This from the New York law just passed



And you can buy the grips and modify the gun.

You can't talk about how it's "ok" to ban assault weapons but then blow off such distinctions.

Quote:- What is the big deal about banning high-capacity magazines? Why do people need magazines that have 10+ rounds?

Whats the difference between someone having one 30 round clip or 4 8 round clips when a clip takes but a couple of seconds to change out?

Quote:- What is the big deal about having background checks?

I've not seen objection to such checks for a criminal background. I do see it to registration. Those are two separate things.

It's not so much this round of "bans" (although I definitely disagree with the assault weapons ban and mag ban", but to me, it's more about the precident it sets.

If there is ANYTHING we have learned AT ALL from dealing with Democrats, it's that if you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

There isn't a single bone in my body that tells me this will be the only action Obama decides to take, and it's that, as much as anything, that makes me desire to oppose this clown at every turn.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. It actually educates me without having to read through all the political BS that everyone tries to spew on these threads...

...Like RazorRamon had to do...

(01-18-2013 12:50 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  It's not so much this round of "bans" (although I definitely disagree with the assault weapons ban and mag ban", but to me, it's more about the president it sets.

If there is ANYTHING we have learned AT ALL from dealing with Democrats, it's that if you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

There isn't a single bone in my body that tells me this will be the only action Obama decides to take, and it's that, as much as anything, that makes me desire to oppose this clown at every turn.

This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

Nothing immature about what I had to say, it's simply a fact and I'll bet any amount of money you want that if obamas does somehow get this enforced, it's not even close to the last piece of action he takes. That's not political, it's factual when this does happen, which it will.

If you can't see that Obama abuses his power, there is no real reason to even discuss this topic further with you. You asked for opinions, I gave you mine which is that I don't want to cowtow to Obama on anything because if we do, he will just be further emboldened to make more and more changes to the second Ammendment. There is nothing political about that, it's what happens in politics and both the republicans and democrats do it when they have the chance.

You see a weakness, you exploit, it's politics 101. So I oppose showing any weakness to Obama at all on this issue for fear that he will do exactly that. If you think that's overly political, well, I don't know what else there is to talk about.

You'll be surprised how many people will feel the exact same way about giving Obama an inch.

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. It actually educates me without having to read through all the political BS that everyone tries to spew on these threads...

So what have you taken so far from this?

If anybody else responds to this thread, PLEASE don't take the bait and turn this into a political thread.

Maybe this will help you understand....

(01-18-2013 01:23 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. It actually educates me without having to read through all the political BS that everyone tries to spew on these threads...

So what have you taken so far from this?

With the little bit of knowledge I have about this issue, I have been for gun control because I look at it as: don't fight violence with violence, or: two wrongs don't make a right. But it is damn near impossible to really see why the pro-gun crowd believes what they believe, because gun control talk always turns into political bickering (from both sides, pro-grun control, and pro-gun). But this has opened my eyes to what you guys (pro-gun) really see. And it does make some sense. And I am open to learning what the other side has to say, and possibly changing my view. I just wish that EVERYONE would be as respectful as you guys (minus 1 person) have been when talking about this issue. That is the main reason I stear completely clear of politics - it ALWAYS turns into bickering and name calling and you never end up learning anything.

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

This whole gun issue is nothing more than political BS, so its kind of hard to divorce the politics from the discussion.

(01-18-2013 01:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

This whole gun issue is nothing more than political BS, so its kind of hard to divorce the politics from the discussion.

Yea, I know. I just didn't want it to turn into a Democrat vs. Republican, Conservative vs. Liberal, Obama is a communist, etc. type of thread.

(01-18-2013 01:37 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

This whole gun issue is nothing more than political BS, so its kind of hard to divorce the politics from the discussion.

Yea, I know. I just didn't want it to turn into a Democrat vs. Republican, Conservative vs. Liberal, Obama is a communist, etc. type of thread.

It will....

What scares me the most is that if we the people are forced to revolt(for whatever reason) the military doesn't side with the people. Which is why, we the people, need to be armed via the 2nd Amendment.

(01-18-2013 01:37 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:34 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

This whole gun issue is nothing more than political BS, so its kind of hard to divorce the politics from the discussion.

Yea, I know. I just didn't want it to turn into a Democrat vs. Republican, Conservative vs. Liberal, Obama is a communist, etc. type of thread.

You asked for people opinions on a political subject that is very polarizing in this country right now and expected nothing but non political answers??

You can't give a reason for being anti gun control without mentioning the government, which immediately turns the argument political as all government is is a conglomeration of political ideals.

Obama is enforcing his ideals on the American people even though he doesn't have the power to do so and it goes against the Consitition and the bill of rights.


Discussing why that is wrong any further will absolutely get political and quite frankly, as long as we remain civil, there is nothing wrong with that.

(01-18-2013 01:04 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This thread was actually going along perfectly fine until you decide to chime in with political BS. Now other people are going to want to chime in with more political BS since you had to act like an immature little kid.

Ramon made it political? Have you been following the news? It was Obama and the left that made it political.

(01-18-2013 01:27 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Maybe this will help you understand....

Oh Chit....Dropped some Stef on us. I read that with his weird accent.

It's a political question.

(01-17-2013 11:24 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  This is a serious question. I'm not trying to stir up trouble. I'll even admit it - I'm ignorant when it comes to politics (which means I am ignorant when it comes to gun control).

- But why do people think that the new gun control laws are 'ruining the Constitution' or taking away our 2nd amendment right, etc., etc.?
- From what I understand, people can still own hand guns. It's not like guns are being banned outright. You can still own a gun(s).
- What is the big deal about banning assault/military type weapons (and don't go into the semantics about what assault weapons are/are not)? WHY do people even need these type of weapons?
- What is the big deal about banning high-capacity magazines? Why do people need magazines that have 10+ rounds?
- What is the big deal about having background checks?

Keep this civil - don't go calling people idiots, etc. And DON'T turn it into a f****** political debate. I f****** hate politics because people turn into immature, name calling kids when they talk about politics.

1) The 2nd amendment is the most important right because it gives Americans the ability to defend their other constitutional rights. Without the ability to bear arms, Americans are completely at the mercy of the government. Don't forget the lessons of history. Germany was a democratic republic before it became Nazi. With all the violations of liberties and extraordinary illegal government activities like extrajudicial killings and kidnappings of Americans, it may be necessary for the public to rise up in the future to avoid totalitarianism. One of the most poignant things for me is something I heard a Swiss man say. He had visited Auschwitz and seen what the Nazis did and swore to himself that he would never allow himself to be disarmed like the Nazis did to the Jews. And before you say that armed citizens have no chance against the military, look at Afghanistan and Vietnam. Armed insurgents can defeat the military over the long term.

2) The criminals aren't going to obey the law. They always going to have powerful weapons. Does it make any sense to disarm law abiding citizens and make them easier victims?

3) Gun control is ineffective. Look at the states/cities with the harshest gun control, then look at their violent crime rates. Now look at states with strong gun rights and see the difference. Strong gun rights deter crime. Look at Britain's unfudged numbers and you'll see shootings have increased. Their government only hides it by cooking the books.

4) There is no such thing as an assault rifle. Fully automatic weapons are already illegal. The term assault weapon could apply to any semi-automatic weapon. It doesn't differentiate between a simple hunting rifle and an AR-15. They're both functionally the same. I think a lot of gun control advocates just don't understand how guns work mechanically.

5) Constitutional basis-It's against the constitution to infringe the rights to bear arms. The alone should be reason enough to oppose gun control. If you're willing to violate the constitution on this point, what else are you willing to violate in the constitution. Not exactly reassuring to the gun rights crowd.

6) Statistic-the 1994 assault weapon ban was ineffective. More people get killed by hammers and hands than by rifles of all types. While mass shootings are horrible, they are extremely rare. You have a much better chance of drowning in a swimming pool. Why aren't we banning swimming pools? And mass shootings are not increasing in number. Media attention is increasing. They've had mass school shootings since at least the early 1900s. Switzerland has the one of the highest gun ownership rates but has very little crime.

7) It's a state responsibility to use police powers. The feds to not have a legitimate constitutional basis to police firearms. Especially intra-state sales.


Simply put, there is virtually no logical reason for more gun control. There are already enough laws to make harmful uses of guns illegal. The newtown shooter broke the law and stole guns to commit his crime. He went to a "gun free" zone and used them. And he committed murder which is highly illegal. Making something illegal doesn't stop the criminals. It only stops the law-abiding. Gun control is not about stopping crime. It won't ever do that, it's about controlling a populace.