I think I'm correct in saying that all he did was carry forward Stanton's marching orders for shutting down the football operations. I'd bet my life that he, the golf coach, tennis coach, baseball coach and others in that department began bending Stanton's ear long before he was named AD. Bartow wasn't on board yet so I'll give him a pass. But I even wonder about him....

(01-15-2013 11:09 AM)72Grad Wrote:  I think I'm correct in saying that all he did was carry forward Stanton's marching orders for shutting down the football operations. I'd bet my life that he, the golf coach, tennis coach, baseball coach and others in that department began bending Stanton's ear long before he was named AD. Bartow wasn't on board yet so I'll give him a pass. But I even wonder about him....

You're probably right, but I'm just glad its over now! We can look forward to the future! Go Bucs!

I wouldn't give Mullins a free pass on dropping football.

For one thing, an athletic director is responsible for the department. I don't care if he has marching orders or not, this isn't the military.

There were still so many incompetent things that happened during football's demise, from extending Paul Hamilton's contract for 2004 in March to trying to pass it off originally as topic 10 in a semester ending speech.

And ultimately, when Paul Stanton did try to bring it back with an ill fated attempt in 2007, it was just that, ill fated. Mullins could not get it done.

Give you another example. When football was killed, ETSU sold off all their equipment. Now, at other schools that brought back football soon after dropping it, such as Villanova and New Haven, their athletic directors instead put the football equipment in storage. When the college president left, Voila!

How much money could be saved if ETSU had done that? How much more feasible would bringing football back have been in 2007 had they done that?

There was just so much that Mullins could have done and didn't do.

Bottom line, in the case of Villanova and New Haven, the athletic directors who cut football were instrumental in football's return to their school. Here, Mullins "retires" when the rumors start up again with a new president.

Somebody said- "We get it, you have to have enemies." That's not it at all. When Mullins was hired, there were plenty of posters who said "Great! I had him in tennis! He's a cool guy!" I was bashed for saying he was the sort of AD you hired to drop football.

Mullins made himself into an enemy. He alienated the media.

What I say is that when a guy retires, we don't want to say "You won't be missed."

And that's why people are trying to absolve him of responsibility for the demise of ETSU athletics for the past 10 years, which you simply can't do.

(01-15-2013 02:12 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I wouldn't give Mullins a free pass on dropping football.

For one thing, an athletic director is responsible for the department. I don't care if he has marching orders or not, this isn't the military.

There were still so many incompetent things that happened during football's demise, from extending Paul Hamilton's contract for 2004 in March to trying to pass it off originally as topic 10 in a semester ending speech.

And ultimately, when Paul Stanton did try to bring it back with an ill fated attempt in 2007, it was just that, ill fated. Mullins could not get it done.

Give you another example. When football was killed, ETSU sold off all their equipment. Now, at other schools that brought back football soon after dropping it, such as Villanova and New Haven, their athletic directors instead put the football equipment in storage. When the college president left, Voila!

How much money could be saved if ETSU had done that? How much more feasible would bringing football back have been in 2007 had they done that?

There was just so much that Mullins could have done and didn't do. Even if he's a puppet, he's a Joe Paterno.

Bottom line, in the case of Villanova and New Haven, the athletic directors who cut football were instrumental in football's return to their school. Here, Mullins "retires" when the rumors start up again with a new president.

Telling.

I'm not sure I would call Stanton's weak online poll an attempt to bring back football. There were multiple players involved in this, but it is in the past...we need to stay positive and look towards the future. You do make a very valid point about the equipment though...I agree

Final note.

The "ETSU should drop football" rumors had been around for a long time. The program never was a big winner and there was always an element of the student body and faculty that said "it should be cut."

In fact, it was once the subject of a speech class in 1994. And as an ETSU student, for my speech class, Dr. Janice Shelton (the then AD) explained for me the need for football at ETSU. She basically said that even if it lost money, so did everyone else's program this side of the Top 25 major powers, and it was imperative for staying in the Southern Conference. Shelton knew of football's importance, and this was a country club sports AD who eventually left to work for the Olympics.

Mullins was such an incompetent he not only didn't know that, but he couldn't figure it out even when VMI, who had been in the conference since it began, I believe, was kicked out not for dropping football but for being uncompetitive and saying they wished to spend less money on it a year or two before.

How could ETSU have possibly thought they could have gotten away with it? It was the glaring definition of incompetence. And if you're telling me that he DID know the bylaws and just followed orders (what a leader), it makes him a Joe Paterno-figure at best, plus it doesn't add up the way he led the program for the next 10 years.

You don't want me to be your athletic director, but I used to say even then that I would have been a better AD than David Mullins because at least I knew this "Athletic Director 101" stuff that Shelton told me that evidently he didn't or, at the very least, showed no indication that he did.

Which is the same thing.

(01-15-2013 02:19 PM)etsudolfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 02:12 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I wouldn't give Mullins a free pass on dropping football.

For one thing, an athletic director is responsible for the department. I don't care if he has marching orders or not, this isn't the military.

There were still so many incompetent things that happened during football's demise, from extending Paul Hamilton's contract for 2004 in March to trying to pass it off originally as topic 10 in a semester ending speech.

And ultimately, when Paul Stanton did try to bring it back with an ill fated attempt in 2007, it was just that, ill fated. Mullins could not get it done.

Give you another example. When football was killed, ETSU sold off all their equipment. Now, at other schools that brought back football soon after dropping it, such as Villanova and New Haven, their athletic directors instead put the football equipment in storage. When the college president left, Voila!

How much money could be saved if ETSU had done that? How much more feasible would bringing football back have been in 2007 had they done that?

There was just so much that Mullins could have done and didn't do. Even if he's a puppet, he's a Joe Paterno.

Bottom line, in the case of Villanova and New Haven, the athletic directors who cut football were instrumental in football's return to their school. Here, Mullins "retires" when the rumors start up again with a new president.

Telling.

I'm not sure I would call Stanton's weak online poll an attempt to bring back football. There were multiple players involved in this, but it is in the past...we need to stay positive and look towards the future. You do make a very valid point about the equipment though...I agree

A better AD able to sell football's return could have made the weak online poll a strong one, don't you think?

I knew something was wrong, and man, people bashed me for merely pointing it out, when his comment at Stanton's press conference announcing the return of football was not "I'm excited about this project and have a plan to make it succeed" but rather "People love this university!"

Forgive me for pointing out the horse was blind as we loaded up the wagon!

(01-15-2013 02:38 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 02:19 PM)etsudolfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 02:12 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I wouldn't give Mullins a free pass on dropping football.

For one thing, an athletic director is responsible for the department. I don't care if he has marching orders or not, this isn't the military.

There were still so many incompetent things that happened during football's demise, from extending Paul Hamilton's contract for 2004 in March to trying to pass it off originally as topic 10 in a semester ending speech.

And ultimately, when Paul Stanton did try to bring it back with an ill fated attempt in 2007, it was just that, ill fated. Mullins could not get it done.

Give you another example. When football was killed, ETSU sold off all their equipment. Now, at other schools that brought back football soon after dropping it, such as Villanova and New Haven, their athletic directors instead put the football equipment in storage. When the college president left, Voila!

How much money could be saved if ETSU had done that? How much more feasible would bringing football back have been in 2007 had they done that?

There was just so much that Mullins could have done and didn't do. Even if he's a puppet, he's a Joe Paterno.

Bottom line, in the case of Villanova and New Haven, the athletic directors who cut football were instrumental in football's return to their school. Here, Mullins "retires" when the rumors start up again with a new president.

Telling.

I'm not sure I would call Stanton's weak online poll an attempt to bring back football. There were multiple players involved in this, but it is in the past...we need to stay positive and look towards the future. You do make a very valid point about the equipment though...I agree

A better AD able to sell football's return could have made the weak online poll a strong one, don't you think?

I knew something was wrong, and man, people bashed me for merely pointing it out, when his comment at Stanton's press conference announcing the return of football was not "I'm excited about this project and have a plan to make it succeed" but rather "People love this university!"

Forgive me for pointing out the horse was blind as we loaded up the wagon!

but..thats all in the past now...new day...new president...new era

Agreed, but this does need to be remembered with scorn because it musn't happen again.

(01-15-2013 02:45 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Agreed, but this does need to be remembered with scorn because it musn't happen again.

I wasn't talking about giving Mullins a free pass...Bartow is the one who gets the free pass. 100% of the equipment was dated.The last unis they wore were from the Cavan period. Helmets, pads, shoes, etc had become 2nd rate and dangerous. Nothing was spent on equipping the player in the last 4 years. Defensive players had to beg Haney for gloves. In retrospect it was a good idea dumping all of the dated equipment.

72- I thought about that, but even though I'm sure we don't want ETSU to do things the way they did before and cut costs at every corner, you have to admit the symbolism of selling off all the equipment was dramatic and telling.

And certain things- I don't know- jerseys, blocking sleds- how much has really changed since then?

I do understand why you would want new equipment. Why do you want a new car and not a 1996 Mercury? Same reason.

But, if I'm de facto suspending the program and not really for the demise of it, I'm keeping the equipment. If I am actively trading the football program for a soccer team in my athletic vision to "win the right way," I'm selling it off.

When I played in 86-88 we wore Pony's. Not nike or Reebok. There were some nikes, but they were few and far between. The unis were plain and we wore Alabama style helmets. Not Logo just #'s and a stripe down the middle. Riley(ouch) made some changes to the style of uni we wore, but went plain Gold helmets. Cavan came in and made us the Oregon of the Socon at the time with numerous jersey pants combos. I ike that idea for the new team. I want to see this program back at the top level of D 1-AA (FCS) but it will take time and we have to be patient. SO LETS GO BUCS

Uniforms have changed a ton in just the last 5 years let alone 10, exspecially the look of them. I don't think it would send the right message to pontential recruits giving them outdated jerseys. We want to start something new,
exciting and proud at ETSU. Now put on this Bad news brown uniforms and get out their and get laughed at. I think using old uniforms would send the wrong message about what ETSU is trying to build. Retro is only cool when doing it as a throwback, not when it going to be your everyday uniforms.

(01-15-2013 04:05 PM)missletoe9 Wrote:  When I played in 86-88 we wore Pony's. Not nike or Reebok. There were some nikes, but they were few and far between. The unis were plain and we wore Alabama style helmets. Not Logo just #'s and a stripe down the middle. Riley(ouch) made some changes to the style of uni we wore, but went plain Gold helmets. Cavan came in and made us the Oregon of the Socon at the time with numerous jersey pants combos. I ike that idea for the new team. I want to see this program back at the top level of D 1-AA (FCS) but it will take time and we have to be patient. SO LETS GO BUCS

Oregon and Maryland are ridiculous. I'm a letters guy on helmets, the ET, script Bucs or ETSU on it. If they have to logo the helmet, then drop ETSU across the chest similar to what traditional Big XII uniforms look like.

(01-15-2013 04:10 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  

(01-15-2013 04:05 PM)missletoe9 Wrote:  When I played in 86-88 we wore Pony's. Not nike or Reebok. There were some nikes, but they were few and far between. The unis were plain and we wore Alabama style helmets. Not Logo just #'s and a stripe down the middle. Riley(ouch) made some changes to the style of uni we wore, but went plain Gold helmets. Cavan came in and made us the Oregon of the Socon at the time with numerous jersey pants combos. I ike that idea for the new team. I want to see this program back at the top level of D 1-AA (FCS) but it will take time and we have to be patient. SO LETS GO BUCS

Oregon and Maryland are ridiculous. I'm a letters guy on helmets, the ET, script Bucs or ETSU on it. If they have to logo the helmet, then drop ETSU across the chest similar to what traditional Big XII uniforms look like.

I'm not saying be like exactly Oregon or Maryland, but having the option of a home (blue) and away (white) as well as a "throwback" jersey (gold) and some pants options (ex. blue, gold white) would be fine. Mix and match...blue/blue blue/white blue/gold. White with either set of pants and the throw back option as well for big games like Clemson's all orange look used to be. One helmet color to go with all the above. I like the ETSU on the Front for away/ BUCS on home

I like the idea of a skull and crossbones blackout alternate.

(01-15-2013 04:08 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Uniforms have changed a ton in just the last 5 years let alone 10, exspecially the look of them. I don't think it would send the right message to pontential recruits giving them outdated jerseys. We want to start something new,
exciting and proud at ETSU. Now put on this Bad news brown uniforms and get out their and get laughed at. I think using old uniforms would send the wrong message about what ETSU is trying to build. Retro is only cool when doing it as a throwback, not when it going to be your everyday uniforms.

I agree, but I think this conversation is about to lead to the support of selling off the football equipment.

Did it really net such a financial gain for the university?

My goodness, if you still had it, and you wanted to bring back football, you could promote and raise some funds for the program by auctioning it off right now.

I've seen people pay $300 for game worn minor league hockey jerseys after a game.

Three digits couldn't have been collected now for Todd Wells' jersey? I'm just sayin'.

(01-15-2013 05:10 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Three digits couldn't have been collected now for Todd Wells' jersey? I'm just sayin'.

A Greg Ryan jersey would be a different story though.

They did sell Jersey's I actually bought one, it wasn't much.

Yeah. I'm sure the tennis racket they bought with your money was swell.

(01-15-2013 05:13 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  They did sell Jersey's I actually bought one, it wasn't much.

I have a road jersey. Number 83. I'd be more than happy to donate it if it can be autographed, framed and used as part of a fundraising auction/dinner. Get it signed by the former/current NFL guys.