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Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 06:47 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 11:16 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  We always hear that players should commit to the school rather than the coach because you never know what will happen and that's never been more true.

I don't hear that from people much anymore. That mentality is from a long lost era.

If that mentality is from a long lost era it's a shame and frankly stupid because it's NEVER BEEN MORE TRUE. Look around at how many football players play their entire career under one football coach especially if they have a redshirt year as many (most?) do. Look at players finishing up this year - who finished playing for the same head coach that recruited them 5 years ago? Off the top of my head in our region: UC? OSU? ND? Miami?, UL?, UK? Purdue? IU? UM? PSU? Pitt? WVU? Any MAC school (other than probably OU)? Chances are VERY high that the coach that recruited you won't be there in 5 years when your eligibility is up.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 07:48 AM by Bearhawkeye.)
01-11-2013 07:42 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Stupid? Really.
 
01-11-2013 07:49 AM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 07:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Stupid? Really.

Really. Look at the facts. If you follow the typical path: (recruit, redshirt, 4 playing years) the odds are much better than not you will finish under a different head coach (or two) than the one who recruited you. College football coaching stability is essentially a myth.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 07:59 AM by Bearhawkeye.)
01-11-2013 07:54 AM
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lazyeyep22 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
The point of the initial link was this: there have been many head coaching changes this year, but the only one I have seen taking such flack for dirty recruiting behavior is TT. This isn't doing anything to improve the national perception of our program, rightly or wrongly.
 
01-11-2013 08:11 AM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
^ meh I don't know...it gets the name UC name out there. I believe in the idea of no such thing as bad pub really.... but thats neither here nor there.

The bottom line is we had a coaching change, like a LOT of schools. Sometimes the incoming coach honors the old coaches recruits (the ones that stick around and dont follow the coach) and sometimes they dont. I really think the media is blowing this regular practice up for whatever reason. It will blow over in time...it's not a big deal.

As for Massillon...who do we ever get out of that school anyway? And besides, who's to say TT won't go up there and smooth things over with the coach at the right time? This is a non story.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 08:17 AM by Bearcats#1.)
01-11-2013 08:16 AM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 07:54 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Stupid? Really.

Really. Look at the facts. If you follow the typical path: (recruit, redshirt, 4 playing years) the odds are much better than not you will finish under a different head coach (or two) than the one who recruited you. College football coaching stability is essentially a myth.
Vast majority of kids commit to personal relationships. It's just a fact. You think it should be different. It's not.

Still trying to figure out what the big deal here is. Coach leaves. New staff gets hired. Kid opens up recruiting and says he is not considering UC. New staff fills scholarship with a player new staff had a long relationship with. BFD.
 
01-11-2013 09:51 AM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 08:11 AM)lazyeyep22 Wrote:  The point of the initial link was this: there have been many head coaching changes this year, but the only one I have seen taking such flack for dirty recruiting behavior is TT. This isn't doing anything to improve the national perception of our program, rightly or wrongly.

Urban was called out for marginal recruiting practices last year. This year TT has been the media whipping boy. Too bad in both instances the media and fans did not do their due diligence or ask the right questions. Complete non-story and will not be remembered in a year.

I wish college sports was still about loyalty to a school and the coaches stood for some semblance of integrity or honor. Universities are a stepping stones to more money. Athletes are the mechanism to get a coach there. The athletes come for a coach hoping to get them to the next level. Its about a paycheck and nothing more these days.
 
01-11-2013 10:28 AM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Coach-prospect relationships and coaching style are almost always going to be the deciding factor. Sometimes other factors such as location and education are more important for specific recruits, but most of the time they're going to be secondary concerns to the first two I mentioned.

There's only a dozen or so programs across the country that have any chance at selling a decent number of recruits on the name across their jersey. Cincinnati prospects weren't lining up to sign with Cincinnati, they were signing on to play for the current and former coaches.

As to the idea of a head coach coming in and pulling offers from committed prospects, that's a very delicate situation. You don't want to alienate high school programs. You don't want to be stuck with prospects you feel are inferior or don't fit your system. The best course of action is to always talk with commits and lay it all on the table.
 
01-11-2013 10:40 AM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
IMO a kids loyalty to a school begins when he starts attending school meeting professors , making friends, hanging out on campus etc. Pretending that these guys are all huge UC fans before they even get to campus is dumb. Also I think the relationship with the coach is much more important, college athletics is very demanding, the kids should be comfortable with their coach, comfort with the school comes with time.
 
01-11-2013 11:35 AM
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JackieTreehorn Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
This stuff about TT will blow over anyway, just like the whining from Bielma concerning Urban Meyer and his "SEC way" of doing things when he got to tO$U. Pretty ironic considering he's now coaching in the SEC.
 
01-11-2013 12:08 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 09:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:54 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Stupid? Really.

Really. Look at the facts. If you follow the typical path: (recruit, redshirt, 4 playing years) the odds are much better than not you will finish under a different head coach (or two) than the one who recruited you. College football coaching stability is essentially a myth.
Vast majority of kids commit to personal relationships. It's just a fact. You think it should be different. It's not.

I'm not claiming all or even most recruits decide based upon the school (even defined in a very broad sense), I think it's a complex decision. And I think the current coaching staff should be taken into account in part because not all instability is created equal. But if it's my kid I make sure he understands this recruiting is puppy love and the fact is the coach is just doing a job and you will in all liklihood be at the school longer than he will as head coach going forward. That's reality in college football. You need to think beyond simply the current head coach to make the best decision for you and yeah I think considering where you would want to go if you couldn't or wouldn't be playing football is a very worthwhile consideration.

But the point is a school should live up to their end of the bargain the same way they would with a student who accepted an academic scholarship (granted the deadlines are different but the principle is the same).
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 12:27 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
01-11-2013 12:11 PM
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Coopdaddy67 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-10-2013 09:24 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Tuberville didn't recruit the kid...it's not his concern. He will get the kids HE wants. If Lyle doesn't want this kid at TN then sorry....not our problem and TT shouldn't be made the villain for it.

Actually, since some of these guys were committed players, it was his concern. I don't mind him wanting his own players, that makes perfect sense. With that said, it's his responsibility to call up a committed prospect and his family to tell him how it is. Don't just ignore them and hope they go away so you don't look like you're cutting prospects. Give him the news once you evaluate and declare him unworthy, don't leave him dangling. It's the right thing to do.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 01:01 PM by Coopdaddy67.)
01-11-2013 12:57 PM
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uccheese Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 12:57 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 09:24 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Tuberville didn't recruit the kid...it's not his concern. He will get the kids HE wants. If Lyle doesn't want this kid at TN then sorry....not our problem and TT shouldn't be made the villain for it.

Actually, since some of these guys were committed players, it was his concern. I don't mind him wanting his own players, that makes perfect sense. With that said, it's his responsibility to call up a committed prospect and his family to tell him how it is. Don't just ignore them and hope they go away so you don't look like you're cutting prospects. Give him the news once you evaluate and declare him unworthy, don't leave him dangling. It's the right thing to do.

This post seems to imply that Tuberville already knew off the bat he didn't want a guy and just decided not to tell him. I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened. He was basically stalling to figure out which guys he wanted to keep and how many he needed to keep. When that decision was eventually made, the guys who didn't make the cut were angry. At least that's how I view the situation.
 
01-11-2013 01:15 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
UC football
Twitter: Bruce Feldman @BFeldmanCBS (CBS
Just spoke to someone at UC, who said after coaching change EVERY committed recruit was contacted by a Bearcat staffer

Read more: http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog...z2HhXqB8Py
 
01-11-2013 03:37 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Tubs will be on with MO Egger on ESPN 1530 at 5:20 today.
 
01-11-2013 03:38 PM
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Ring of Black Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Hawkeye, I admire your stance on this, in principle. However, the simple fact of the matter is, that Tommy Tuberville is paid to win football games. And, if he has to do that with a class full of kids that he thinks might not be able to win for him, then he is behind the 8 ball from day one.
 
01-11-2013 03:52 PM
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bearcatfan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Why does it seem like ever since he was hired the media have really gone after him? Are they that upset that he went to little ol' UC?
 
01-11-2013 04:09 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
Believe me, these kids want to go where they're wanted, where they're going to get playing time, and where they're going to get it sooner rather than later. Everything else is just people stirring the pot.
 
01-11-2013 04:11 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 03:52 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Hawkeye, I admire your stance on this, in principle. However, the simple fact of the matter is, that Tommy Tuberville is paid to win football games.


My comments are meant generically as probably none of us here know exactly what was or wasn't communicated to each recruit. But with regard to UC and TT it's pretty clear we left some hard feelings and are paying a price in terms of publicity. (edit: BTW, there's a new cbssports.com blog article up today hammering UC and TT that I'm not even going to bother to link)

Quote: And, if he has to do that with a class full of kids that he thinks might not be able to win for him, then he is behind the 8 ball from day one.

Well let's not forget that the vast majority of the roster isn't his recruits no matter what happens. As far as this class goes, I think there is a way to communicate quickly, effectively, professionally and mostly honestly with the kids that you don't necessarily want to have follow through with their commitment that would leave all parties feeling OK and achieve the desired results with most of them.

(e.g. "Listen son, it's not you it's me. 03-wink I run a certain system, and while it has flexibility, I just don't think your obvious talents are a very good fit for it and will have a very hard time finding playing time over your career. I'll still honor your scholarship if you want to come to UC, but I want to be upfront with you and make sure there are no misunderstandings and to allow you the opportunity to consider if another school and coaching system might be a better fit...") Adapt it as necessary.

Do it the right way and I bet you end up with less than a handful (if any) you don't want and no real hard feelings. Most kids will follow "the love" to where they feel wanted (edit: and where they will get to play early and often as lurker noted). And who knows, the one or two kids who come anyway may be exactly the type of fighter dedicated to proving you wrong who surprises you. If the previous staff took them it's not like they are likely to be crappy players.

If this small potential hindrance is a deal-breaker to the job or will prevent you from winning, then I'd say don't take it then if I was AD. But you will represent this University the right way (again I'm speaking generically).
 
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 08:07 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
01-11-2013 04:25 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Tommy Tuberville An Unfair Target?
(01-11-2013 12:11 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 09:51 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:54 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 07:49 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Stupid? Really.

Really. Look at the facts. If you follow the typical path: (recruit, redshirt, 4 playing years) the odds are much better than not you will finish under a different head coach (or two) than the one who recruited you. College football coaching stability is essentially a myth.
Vast majority of kids commit to personal relationships. It's just a fact. You think it should be different. It's not.

I'm not claiming all or even most recruits decide based upon the school (even defined in a very broad sense), I think it's a complex decision. And I think the current coaching staff should be taken into account in part because not all instability is created equal. But if it's my kid I make sure he understands this recruiting is puppy love and the fact is the coach is just doing a job and you will in all liklihood be at the school longer than he will as head coach going forward. That's reality in college football. You need to think beyond simply the current head coach to make the best decision for you and yeah I think considering where you would want to go if you couldn't or wouldn't be playing football is a very worthwhile consideration.

But the point is a school should live up to their end of the bargain the same way they would with a student who accepted an academic scholarship (granted the deadlines are different but the principle is the same).

I actually agree with this, but it could make for some awkward conversations where the new staff knows nothing whatsoever about a recruit. ["At the University of Cincinnati, we keep our commitments, but as for whether or not you can actually play for me, I've got no freaking idea...."]
 
01-11-2013 04:36 PM
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