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The good ole/new CUSA
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SgtGoldenEagle Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
I am old enough to remember well before C-USA was formed and had already been finished at USM more than a decade when it was formed. I remember the reasons, and the atmosphere of the time and I can tell you that the inclusion of ODU, UNC Charlotte, are nothing new nor should they be that big of a concern. In fact I will say Charlotte should be considered because they were pushed to the side by the original formation due to not having football, but in the Metro they did have a top basketball program that had been in the Metro before USM was invited to join the Metro. If Charlotte had had a football program probably one of the teams in the original C-USA might have not been in it.

Old Dominion is going to be a good program and they bring a lot to the table. Like USF they will probably become a prize for the conference and certainly a benefit for all the teams in the conference. We must not fall into the trap of not seeing the future in the process, but look at what the potential of each is. ODU and Charlotte certainly are going to prove worthy before too long.
01-09-2013 03:04 PM
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RougeDawg Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 01:57 PM)Niner National Wrote:  Well my overgrown community college has a larger endowment than your school. And more students. And more research programs. And more doctoral offerings. And more NCAA tournament appearances. And a higher athletic budget (despite not fielding a football team year).

I think we'll be fine and I'll speak for ODU fans and say they'll be just fine as well.

UNCC is a fine university and I would gladly send my kids there. However, I just don't think y'all should have a FBS football program until 2063 (I'll grant you a 50 year waiver for being in CUSA). 03-wink


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01-09-2013 03:13 PM
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Monarchist13 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:02 PM)Niner National Wrote:  Technically Charlotte had a program in 1948 and 1949. We were only a two year school back then though.

Sorry, was unaware. This is now fixed.
01-09-2013 03:14 PM
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WKUApollo Online
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Post: #64
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 01:21 PM)RougeDawg Wrote:  University must have had a football program for at least 100 years.

Woohoo....WKU has had football since 1908 so this was our 104th year and we meet the criteria. Does that mean we can join the party now? Oh wait, no invite, no party. There's no party crashing in conference realignment I guess.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2013 03:17 PM by WKUApollo.)
01-09-2013 03:17 PM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:17 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 01:21 PM)RougeDawg Wrote:  University must have had a football program for at least 100 years.

Woohoo....WKU has had football since 1908 so this was our 104th year and we meet the criteria. Does that mean we can join the party now? Oh wait, no invite, no party. There's no party crashing in conference realignment I guess.

I'd love to have WKU.
01-09-2013 03:21 PM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #66
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:04 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  Charlotte [was] pushed to the side by the original formation due to not having football, but in the Metro they did have a top basketball program that had been in the Metro before USM was invited to join the Metro. If Charlotte had had a football program probably one of the teams in the original C-USA might have not been in it.
Charlotte was in C-USA from 1995-2005 as a non-football member, wasn't it?

In my memory, the original formation was a merger of the Great Midwest Conference (1991-95) and the Metro Conference (1975-95), except that Dayton from the GMC and VCU and Virginia Tech from the Metro were left out. Also, Houston had indicated its desire to join from the outset, but was contractually obligated to a lame-duck season (95-96) in the SWC just before it dissolved and then joined C-USA in '96.

The manner in which VCU and VT were excluded was handled very incompetently and I believe each school was paid about $1.1m pursuant to an out-of-court settlement of a lawsuit they filed.
01-09-2013 03:23 PM
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WKUApollo Online
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Post: #67
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:21 PM)Niner National Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 03:17 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 01:21 PM)RougeDawg Wrote:  University must have had a football program for at least 100 years.

Woohoo....WKU has had football since 1908 so this was our 104th year and we meet the criteria. Does that mean we can join the party now? Oh wait, no invite, no party. There's no party crashing in conference realignment I guess.

I'd love to have WKU.

And I'd love to be in a conference with Charlotte again.
01-09-2013 03:35 PM
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SgtGoldenEagle Offline
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Post: #68
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 03:04 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  Charlotte [was] pushed to the side by the original formation due to not having football, but in the Metro they did have a top basketball program that had been in the Metro before USM was invited to join the Metro. If Charlotte had had a football program probably one of the teams in the original C-USA might have not been in it.
Charlotte was in C-USA from 1995-2005 as a non-football member, wasn't it?

In my memory, the original formation was a merger of the Great Midwest Conference (1991-95) and the Metro Conference (1975-95), except that Dayton from the GMC and VCU and Virginia Tech from the Metro were left out. Also, Houston had indicated its desire to join from the outset, but was contractually obligated to a lame-duck season (95-96) in the SWC just before it dissolved and then joined C-USA in '96.

The manner in which VCU and VT were excluded was handled very incompetently and I believe each school was paid about $1.1m pursuant to an out-of-court settlement of a lawsuit they filed.

The way I can say things happened was that USM was having some success in basketball under M.K. Turk and the Metro was rumored to be wanting to go football, so they decided to add USM due to the success in basketball USM was having and certainly to strength their football. The Midwest and Metro did have some arrangement because I do remember DePaul and Charlotte being on the conference schedule in basketball for USM but right off hand I can't remember how long that lasted, but Charlotte was in C-USA to start with, but their football issue was why they got so horribly kicked to the curb. Your story is indeed correct. I have always felt that was one of the worse happenings in conference history.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2013 04:05 PM by SgtGoldenEagle.)
01-09-2013 03:48 PM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #69
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:17 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 01:21 PM)RougeDawg Wrote:  University must have had a football program for at least 100 years.

Woohoo....WKU has had football since 1908 so this was our 104th year and we meet the criteria. Does that mean we can join the party now? Oh wait, no invite, no party. There's no party crashing in conference realignment I guess.

I'm about as certain as one can be in all this realignment business that WKU will be in C-USA and I bet it happens with the next defection. Probably will see Ark St in the conference before long as well. I would like to have those 2 and ULL plus Tx St.
01-09-2013 04:18 PM
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ThreeifbyLightning Offline
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Post: #70
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 12:41 PM)wh49er Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 12:16 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Would really like to see the NCAA put forth some standards for moving up that would stick. If they can do it for grades they can do it for this. No offense directed at Charlotte (or others) but heck you don't even need a football program these days to be able to be declared ready to play at the highest level. That's not a good way to do business. Schools should have to meet strict standards to make a move up to a higher division within the NCAA.

Not quite sure what standards you speak of....financial or performance-wise? You have to look at the overall picture of our situation.

Our athletic budget without football is right there than many schools that already play FBS football. We have a large and growing student population which fees will come from until the wheels really start moving.

We've sold nearly 4,500 FSLs at $1,000 a pop and another 500 at $2,500 a pop without even playing a down of football. Season tickets are another $380 a piece on top of that.


The school and fans have made a financial commitment to play FBS. It's crazy what we have done so far and I expect the commitments (corporate and individual donations) to be even greater once we hit the field.

Perhaps at another time. I detailed this many years ago for my MT amigos after we moved up (when there were a number of hoops that had to be jumped through which have since been removed) and I believed even then that the NCAA should have had more stringent requirements. Instead they have essentially eliminated them altogether sans meeting Title IX stipulations apparently afraid of legal disputes. It's a bit much to get into now. Maybe I'll have some time on a weekend a start a new thread and detail what I believe (using my experience as a former adminstrator at Middle Tennessee) would be a more sustainable model and plan.

I specifically mentioned Charlotte fans not to take offense, because I thought you might if I didn't, so I was acknowledging your impressive progress while also noting that schools essentially require only a pulse to get approval from the NCAA. I say that seperating any correlation between that issue and Charlotte as mutually exclusive points. To be clear, what I said wasn't directed at Charlotte specfically and in fact I understand that Charlotte is in very good shape moving forward. Having said all that; however, that's not typical for all schools with the intent to field a football program solely for the purposes to gain access at the highest level (ostensibly to gain a piece of the money pie); therefore, fielding a football program before you have access to Division I-A/FBS is certainly one of the requirements that should be in place. IMHO, there should be at least a 12-year period after you start a football program that is eligible for FBS. Two transition years as a Division II school and 10 as an FCS. Everyone else including Charlotte could be grandfathered in.
01-09-2013 04:42 PM
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BkGold Offline
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Post: #71
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
I think too many of us look back, and not many look forward, we have some new, financially strong schools on board... given time CUSA will be impressive, the future is bright 04-cheers
01-09-2013 06:59 PM
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DrBox Offline
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Post: #72
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 03:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  The manner in which VCU and VT were excluded was handled very incompetently and I believe each school was paid about $1.1m pursuant to an out-of-court settlement of a lawsuit they filed.
Charlotte and VCU may have gotten screwed, but VPI certainly did not. They had an offer to join C-USA for all sports and they declined. That we had to pay them damages was outrageous.
01-09-2013 07:04 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #73
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
I like the future of CUSA. In addition, I see the potential in WKU, Arkansas State, and Louisiana and if we ever were to add more schools, I would look to them first, not because of old Sun Belt allegiance but because they really are on the rise and have room to expand.
01-09-2013 07:06 PM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #74
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 07:04 PM)DrBox Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 03:23 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  The manner in which VCU and VT were excluded was handled very incompetently and I believe each school was paid about $1.1m pursuant to an out-of-court settlement of a lawsuit they filed.
Charlotte and VCU may have gotten screwed, but VPI certainly did not. They had an offer to join C-USA for all sports and they declined. That we had to pay them damages was outrageous.
I agree that VPI did not get screwed. But I still say the way in which the process unfolded was handled incompetently on C-USA's end. The fact that we "had to" pay $$$ is (IMHO) a strong indication of that. I put "had to" in quotes because the payment was part of a negotiated out-of-court settlement.

It has obviously been 18 years since this happened and I don't claim to remember all the details of it. But I remember being informed (reliably, I believe) at the time that all of the drama with VPI/VCU could be resolved if they were simply allowed to play their non-football sports (VCU of course didn't have football) for one season ('95-'96) in C-USA. Since C-USA did not officially sponsor a football competition that year anyway, I think some sort of an arrangement could have been worked out.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2013 07:30 PM by Native Georgian.)
01-09-2013 07:29 PM
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BkGold Offline
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Post: #75
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 01:21 PM)RougeDawg Wrote:  Standard 1: University must have had a football program for at least 100 years. Drives me nuts to see overgrown community colleges with no tradition get declared a "major" program overnight . . . looking at you South Florida. If the Simpsons have been on the air longer than you have had a football program, you shouldn't be FBS.

Wasn't Boise State a community college? When did they move up?
01-10-2013 08:14 AM
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wh49er Offline
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Post: #76
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-09-2013 04:42 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 12:41 PM)wh49er Wrote:  
(01-09-2013 12:16 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Would really like to see the NCAA put forth some standards for moving up that would stick. If they can do it for grades they can do it for this. No offense directed at Charlotte (or others) but heck you don't even need a football program these days to be able to be declared ready to play at the highest level. That's not a good way to do business. Schools should have to meet strict standards to make a move up to a higher division within the NCAA.

Not quite sure what standards you speak of....financial or performance-wise? You have to look at the overall picture of our situation.

Our athletic budget without football is right there than many schools that already play FBS football. We have a large and growing student population which fees will come from until the wheels really start moving.

We've sold nearly 4,500 FSLs at $1,000 a pop and another 500 at $2,500 a pop without even playing a down of football. Season tickets are another $380 a piece on top of that.


The school and fans have made a financial commitment to play FBS. It's crazy what we have done so far and I expect the commitments (corporate and individual donations) to be even greater once we hit the field.

Perhaps at another time. I detailed this many years ago for my MT amigos after we moved up (when there were a number of hoops that had to be jumped through which have since been removed) and I believed even then that the NCAA should have had more stringent requirements. Instead they have essentially eliminated them altogether sans meeting Title IX stipulations apparently afraid of legal disputes. It's a bit much to get into now. Maybe I'll have some time on a weekend a start a new thread and detail what I believe (using my experience as a former adminstrator at Middle Tennessee) would be a more sustainable model and plan.

I specifically mentioned Charlotte fans not to take offense, because I thought you might if I didn't, so I was acknowledging your impressive progress while also noting that schools essentially require only a pulse to get approval from the NCAA. I say that seperating any correlation between that issue and Charlotte as mutually exclusive points. To be clear, what I said wasn't directed at Charlotte specfically and in fact I understand that Charlotte is in very good shape moving forward. Having said all that; however, that's not typical for all schools with the intent to field a football program solely for the purposes to gain access at the highest level (ostensibly to gain a piece of the money pie); therefore, fielding a football program before you have access to Division I-A/FBS is certainly one of the requirements that should be in place. IMHO, there should be at least a 12-year period after you start a football program that is eligible for FBS. Two transition years as a Division II school and 10 as an FCS. Everyone else including Charlotte could be grandfathered in.

That wasn't so hard was it? 04-cheers
01-10-2013 09:04 AM
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RougeDawg Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The good ole/new CUSA
(01-10-2013 08:14 AM)BkGold Wrote:  Wasn't Boise State a community college? When did they move up?

They are still essentially a community college (need to be breathing to get in). Started playing football in 1969.
01-10-2013 07:19 PM
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