I wonder why it is such a surprise that Wichita State is mentioned as a possible candidate?

I, nor MOST Shocker fans, think we will be in the first wave of teams as I don't see the C7 going to more than 12 to start. But when they go past that, especially if they do decide to go to 16, I can't see how we don't fit in.

The 16 team super-league proved they can get 9 teams in the tournament, even with cellar dwellars. Wichita State has a strong base of support, has a basketball budget that competes with most of the C7, pays it's coach 1.5 million, averaged over 10k for the past 10 years, and has top notch facilities. We are a basketball only school that doesn't have a pro team nearby as well.

We are a small market (#69), we are somewhat isolated from the C7, but not from Creighton and Saint Louis, who are favorites to join, and we have only 2 appearances in the NCAA the past 10 years. One of those though was a Sweet 16, and last year's team was a victim of match ups, which happens to a couple teams each year.

I don't know how you are scoring the spreadsheet, but would love to see how WSU compared to the other schools.

(01-05-2013 11:48 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  I wonder why it is such a surprise that Wichita State is mentioned as a possible candidate?

Because Wichita State doesn't have much of a national profile.

Quote:I, nor MOST Shocker fans, think we will be in the first wave of teams as I don't see the C7 going to more than 12 to start. But when they go past that,

-----IF we go past that. A major reason for the split was to end the constant churning.

Now, maybe in 5 years, when football-driven realignment is more of a memory and the scars have healed a bit, maybe we'll talk.

Until then, the Valley with Creighton, WSU and maybe Saint Louis and Dayton would be a pretty spicy conference.

Quote:especially if they do decide to go to 16, I can't see how we don't fit in.

The 16 team super-league proved they can get 9 teams in the tournament, even with cellar dwellars.

Right now, the idea of 16 gives us indigestion.

Quote:Wichita State has a strong base of support, has a basketball budget that competes with most of the C7, pays it's coach 1.5 million, averaged over 10k for the past 10 years, and has top notch facilities. We are a basketball only school that doesn't have a pro team nearby as well.

If 16 is on the table, then WSU is maybe on the table.

Quote:We are a small market (#69), we are somewhat isolated from the C7, but not from Creighton and Saint Louis, who are favorites to join, and we have only 2 appearances in the NCAA the past 10 years. One of those though was a Sweet 16, and last year's team was a victim of match ups, which happens to a couple teams each year.

I don't know how you are scoring the spreadsheet, but would love to see how WSU compared to the other schools.

I'm looking at 1/4 history, 1/4 last 10 years, 1/4 current basketball resources (budget and attendance), 1/4 potential resources (endowment, enrollment, market)

Quote:Because Wichita State doesn't have much of a national profile.

Much, not yet. It is gaining each year, especiialy under Coach Marshall. I would guess any more people can tell you that Wichita State is the "Shockers" than can tell you Depaul is the "Blue Demons"

Quote:-----IF we go past that. A major reason for the split was to end the constant churning.

Wichita State has been in the Valley since 1945. We aren't conference jumpers.

Quote:Until then, the Valley with Creighton, WSU and maybe Saint Louis and Dayton would be a pretty spicy conference.

If they are going big, and it appears they are trying to since they are leaving the BE, then why not cripple the competition and get the big money right away. What would the Valley and A-10 be without Creighton, Wichita State, Xavier, Virginia Commonwealth, Butler, and Dayton? How much more money could be made if it became a conference that got more bids than BCS conferences?

Quote:Right now, the idea of 16 gives us indigestion.

I get that, so 14 and some Pepto should help with that.

Quote:I'm looking at 1/4 history, 1/4 last 10 years, 1/4 current basketball resources (budget and attendance), 1/4 potential resources (endowment, enrollment, market)

We have good histonry, and a strong past 10 years. Our weakness came during the time the Big East earned much of it's reputation during the late 80's and 90's. Our basketball resources, budget, and attendance are all right there based on the spreadsheets with information you provided. Potential resources are also right there. We are about to build a new $50 million residence hall plus a new parking garage, and our new President has committed to increasing our enrollment to 20k. Again, market being a weakness, but still within range of many being considered.

(01-05-2013 12:50 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  

Quote:Because Wichita State doesn't have much of a national profile.

Much, not yet. It is gaining each year, especiialy under Coach Marshall. I would guess any more people can tell you that Wichita State is the "Shockers" than can tell you Depaul is the "Blue Demons"

Quote:-----IF we go past that. A major reason for the split was to end the constant churning.

Wichita State has been in the Valley since 1945. We aren't conference jumpers.

Quote:Until then, the Valley with Creighton, WSU and maybe Saint Louis and Dayton would be a pretty spicy conference.

If they are going big, and it appears they are trying to since they are leaving the BE, then why not cripple the competition and get the big money right away.

It's a matter of perspective. We are an "elite basketball conference" until proven otherwise. Our competition isn't the A-10 and the Valley, it's the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, SEC and the Aresco League.

Quote:What would the Valley and A-10 be without Creighton, Wichita State, Xavier, Virginia Commonwealth, Butler, and Dayton? How much more money could be made if it became a conference that got more bids than BCS conferences?

The downside is, take too many non-blue-blood teams, and you hit a tipping point the way the Aresco League did and suddenly we ARE the A-10.

Quote:

Quote:Right now, the idea of 16 gives us indigestion.

I get that, so 14 and some Pepto should help with that.

Nice.

Quote:I'm looking at 1/4 history, 1/4 last 10 years, 1/4 current basketball resources (budget and attendance), 1/4 potential resources (endowment, enrollment, market)

We have good history, and a strong past 10 years. Our weakness came during the time the Big East earned much of it's reputation during the late 80's and 90's. Our basketball resources, budget, and attendance are all right there based on the spreadsheets with information you provided. Potential resources are also right there. We are about to build a new $50 million residence hall plus a new parking garage, and our new President has committed to increasing our enrollment to 20k. Again, market being a weakness, but still within range of many being considered.
[/quote]

You have pretty good history, and a nice decade, but it doesn't really stack up as BETTER than Butler's or Xavier's or VCU's or Dayton's or Creighton's. It stacks up better than Saint Louis, but they've got a much better market and endowment.

Like you said, you'd need us to go to 14. And I don't see us going to 14 for a while.

And you'd have to put together a Final Four run, or multiple Sweet Sixteens.

I'm excited about where we're heading as a University under our new leadership. Our enrollment went over 15k this year and if the new President is able to do what he wants, it'll only increase and the money available to the AD will go up as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3G get paid around 2mil in the near future, especially if we can make a post season run which I believe we're very capable of. And lets not forget that we do have Koch money that can be available to help in a number of areas if needed. I could see Charles opening up his wallet again if we were able to upgrade conferences and get even more national recognition. He already has his name on the arena and cares about the success of the University as a whole.

I would love to see what WSU could become when surrounded by other schools that care and invest in basketball. We live for basketball around here and are irritated by the current state of affairs in the MVC with a number of schools. If we were able to get into a conference with more national respect, I think WSU could be a definite player and would only get better. Fan support is amazing. The resources and facilities are top notch. If we get a shot in a different conference or not, WSU is going to be a player on the national scene. 3G has been doing great things and we only continue to improve. I'm excited regardless. And part of me would miss the rivalry with Creighton if they left and we were stuck here.

Don't be surprised if WSU makes a couple of runs in the near future. The talent level of the team keeps going up and 3G has become an even better coach in my mind. The good news is this new conference wouldn't expand for a few years and we have time to prove ourselves. It's funny you mention blue bloods though as I don't know if any of the additions really fit that description and the C7 isn't stacked with such programs either. Maybe it's just a different definition of what a blue blood is. Most of the schools that have been discussed would compete in the upper half of this new conference so I don't see any of them watering it down. WSU or otherwise. With the exception of SLU. Many in the MVC have a love affair with them and I've never figured it out.

I think there is a LONG Wichita thread already.

I'd be okay with a 16 team league. I mean we know how to run one already.

We just take the best of the BBall schools from the ranks of the mid-majors and create a league that gets 6-8 bids a year.

GTown
Nova
Butler
Xavier
St. John's
VCU
Richmond
Seton Hall
Creighton
Providence
Dayton
Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Wichita St
St. Joe's

Not going to happen but would be neat.

(01-05-2013 01:19 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I'd be okay with a 16 team league. I mean we know how to run one already.

We just take the best of the BBall schools from the ranks of the mid-majors and create a league that gets 6-8 bids a year.

GTown
Nova
Butler
Xavier
St. John's
VCU
Richmond
Seton Hall
Creighton
Providence
Dayton
Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis
Wichita St
St. Joe's

Not going to happen but would be neat.

That would be a hell of a conference where getting half the teams in wouldn't be a big stretch at all.

That was my major point. Wichita State, by the fans of the C7's criteria, is a solid candidate for the new conference. It seems, though, many dismiss us because we are in Kansas, and dropped football in 1986. This, along with a couple bad hires in the 90's hurt, but didn't kill, our reputation. Since 2006 we have been on the rise, starting with the Sweet 16 run, save one bad season in Coach Marshall's first year (11-17).

Make no mistake that the leadership and fans of Wichita State want us back where we were in the early 80's (Xavier McDaniel, Antoine Carr, Cliff Levingston and company). We have the all we need to continue getting better. An upgraded conference with schools that can afford to compete would help.

Kansas is a basketball state. EVERYONE watches basketball. While the market may be smaller, and stretched out much further than say Omaha, the saturation of sets is higher for basketball.

I think Wichita State would be a valuable and beneficial addition to the C7. In addition to all that has already been discussed, we travel well. 3-4k for the conference tourney in St. Louis each year. Large contingents travel to ALL away games. We are investing heavily in our university. Academically and athletically.

We may not be the perfect fit, but see the discussion dismissing us based on incorrect perceptions prompted me to ask why, and point out our strengths and weaknesses.

(01-05-2013 01:18 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  I think there is a LONG Wichita thread already.

Talk to the moderator, johnbragg, Jaysker. I only posted based on the information on the spreadsheet and a comment putting down Wichita State. There was enough discussion that he decided to move it.

Love you guys, but you sure do annoy me at times.

I think they will go with a 12 team league but I wouldn't mind the following lineup:

Pod 1: Georgetown, Villanova, VCU, St. John's, Providence
Pod 2: Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, Seton Hall
Pod 3: Gonzaga, Marquette, Creighton, Wichita State, St. Louis

Play everyone once. Play your pod (which is more regionally based) twice for an 18 game schedule.

(01-05-2013 01:40 PM)Burrito Wrote:  I think they will go with a 12 team league but I wouldn't mind the following lineup:

Pod 1: Georgetown, Villanova, VCU, St. John's, Providence
Pod 2: Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, Seton Hall
Pod 3: Gonzaga, Marquette, Creighton, Wichita State, St. Louis

Play everyone once. Play your pod (which is more regionally based) twice for an 18 game schedule.

I love this idea for many reasons. It becomes the ELITE basketball conference. Spans coast to coast while still limiting costs, and I think it balances well.

(01-05-2013 01:18 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  I think there is a LONG Wichita thread already.

Yeah, but that was at least a week ago.

(01-05-2013 04:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:18 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  I think there is a LONG Wichita thread already.

Yeah, but that was at least a week ago.

Haha, ahh, ic....