I've been a big fan of CJP while acknowledging the fact that he needs to grow as a coach in some areas. In my opinion, the turnaround of Joe Jackson has been the most impressive coaching feat of Pastner thus far and is a sign of things to come.

Joe started the season with 2 of the worst performances of his life in the Bahamas. Pastner, knowing that JJ was forcing the issue of becoming a "pure point guard" turned his season (and career) around. CJP took JJ off the ball for a few games, let him find the flow of the game again and has slowly put JJ back into the position of floor general and we have seen him play his best stretch of basketball yet. Basketball is a game that depends on players having their minds right and CJP got Joe's mind right.

I think this is a big sign of Pastner being a "player's coach". He understands the personalities of his players and what they need in order to get things right. We also saw CC play a great game being the 6th man and Adonis has started listening to CJP and being aggressive. Very good trends and looking forward to a great run in conference play.

Go Tigers!

Nice to see Pastner getting some credit. I would also give credit to Stoudemire, Collins, and Williams (and whoever else I'm leaving out). Pastner's coaching staff is doing a lot of things right. Unless we have a serious backslide or something unforeseen, this team should just get better and better. Come late February, early March, look out...

(01-05-2013 12:23 AM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  I've been a big fan of CJP while acknowledging the fact that he needs to grow as a coach in some areas. In my opinion, the turnaround of Joe Jackson has been the most impressive coaching feat of Pastner thus far and is a sign of things to come.

Joe started the season with 2 of the worst performances of his life in the Bahamas. Pastner, knowing that JJ was forcing the issue of becoming a "pure point guard" turned his season (and career) around. CJP took JJ off the ball for a few games, let him find the flow of the game again and has slowly put JJ back into the position of floor general and we have seen him play his best stretch of basketball yet. Basketball is a game that depends on players having their minds right and CJP got Joe's mind right.

I think this is a big sign of Pastner being a "player's coach". He understands the personalities of his players and what they need in order to get things right. We also saw CC play a great game being the 6th man and Adonis has started listening to CJP and being aggressive. Very good trends and looking forward to a great run in conference play.

Go Tigers!

Very good post and I totally agree.

+2

Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

(01-05-2013 12:47 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

Yep. Totally didn't understand the Minnesota thing, I can't remember exactly, but I think he played 7 minutes, and none in the second half ... crazy.

(01-05-2013 12:52 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:47 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

Yep. Totally didn't understand the Minnesota thing, I can't remember exactly, but I think he played 7 minutes, and none in the second half ... crazy.

He was playing terrible. I understood and and agreed with sitting him.

I still don't get the people complaining about that.

(01-05-2013 12:55 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:52 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:47 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

Yep. Totally didn't understand the Minnesota thing, I can't remember exactly, but I think he played 7 minutes, and none in the second half ... crazy.

He was playing terrible. I understood and and agreed with sitting him.

I still don't get the people complaining about that.

Agreed. I've said time and time again that this team goes the way of Joe. Joe had his worst half of his career against VCU and the Tigers had the worst half of their season. He opened up the Minnesota game looking like he was going to have just as bad of a half and CJP had to sit him. Not only for the team's sake, but for his sake. Joe would have been in such a deep hole if he would have continued getting demolished by his old high school teammate that it was the only option.

Josh had to take the ball of out Joe's hand for a few games and let him get back into his game. You can look at box scores and claim that he played well outside of those 27 minutes, but I don't think you're truly looking at the grand scheme if you say that those 27 minutes were an anomaly and that's that.

(01-05-2013 01:01 AM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:55 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:52 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:47 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

Yep. Totally didn't understand the Minnesota thing, I can't remember exactly, but I think he played 7 minutes, and none in the second half ... crazy.

He was playing terrible. I understood and and agreed with sitting him.

I still don't get the people complaining about that.

Agreed. I've said time and time again that this team goes the way of Joe. Joe had his worst half of his career against VCU and the Tigers had the worst half of their season. He opened up the Minnesota game looking like he was going to have just as bad of a half and CJP had to sit him. Not only for the team's sake, but for his sake. Joe would have been in such a deep hole if he would have continued getting demolished by his old high school teammate that it was the only option.

Josh had to take the ball of out Joe's hand for a few games and let him get back into his game. You can look at box scores and claim that he played well outside of those 27 minutes, but I don't think you're truly looking at the grand scheme if you say that those 27 minutes were an anomaly and that's that.

Agreed.

Josh handled the situation perfectly and now has JJ playing the best ball of his career.

(01-05-2013 01:06 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:01 AM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:55 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:52 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:47 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Joe had ONE terrible half. Maybe just a bad 10 minutes against VCU. Then he got benched after two turnovers against Minnesota. Then everyone freaked out. Joe has played well in all the other games.

Yep. Totally didn't understand the Minnesota thing, I can't remember exactly, but I think he played 7 minutes, and none in the second half ... crazy.

He was playing terrible. I understood and and agreed with sitting him.

I still don't get the people complaining about that.

Agreed. I've said time and time again that this team goes the way of Joe. Joe had his worst half of his career against VCU and the Tigers had the worst half of their season. He opened up the Minnesota game looking like he was going to have just as bad of a half and CJP had to sit him. Not only for the team's sake, but for his sake. Joe would have been in such a deep hole if he would have continued getting demolished by his old high school teammate that it was the only option.

Josh had to take the ball of out Joe's hand for a few games and let him get back into his game. You can look at box scores and claim that he played well outside of those 27 minutes, but I don't think you're truly looking at the grand scheme if you say that those 27 minutes were an anomaly and that's that.

Agreed.

If I had the energy, I would hunt down the thread where I analyzed Joe's "terrible" play in the Minnesota game; but I assure you it wasn't that bad. The team was playing poorly, Joe had one legitimate turnover, the other was arguably on the receiver of the pass. Dre Hollins scored 2 points I believe while Joe was actually guarding him.

(01-05-2013 01:10 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:06 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  [quote='tigerfansincebirth89' pid='8792056' dateline='1357365703']
[quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792029' dateline='1357365336']
[quote='NigelTufnel' pid='8792015' dateline='1357365122']

If I had the energy, I would hunt down the thread where I analyzed Joe's "terrible" play in the Minnesota game; but I assure you it wasn't that bad. The team was playing poorly, Joe had one legitimate turnover, the other was arguably on the receiver of the pass. Dre Hollins scored 2 points I believe while Joe was actually guarding him.

We just saw very different things.

I saw Joe struggling badly, and I didn't need a stat sheet to see it.

Hard to argue with the results now. Joe is playing like a man. That was the turning point.

(01-05-2013 01:12 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:10 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:06 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  [quote='tigerfansincebirth89' pid='8792056' dateline='1357365703']
[quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792029' dateline='1357365336']
[quote='NigelTufnel' pid='8792015' dateline='1357365122']

If I had the energy, I would hunt down the thread where I analyzed Joe's "terrible" play in the Minnesota game; but I assure you it wasn't that bad. The team was playing poorly, Joe had one legitimate turnover, the other was arguably on the receiver of the pass. Dre Hollins scored 2 points I believe while Joe was actually guarding him.

We just saw very different things.

I saw Joe struggling badly, and I didn't need a stat sheet to see it.

Hard to argue with the results now. Joe is playing like a man. That was the turning point.

I guess the argument is over whether there was a turning point ... he played poorly against VCU, 7 minutes against Minnesota is hardly enough to grade him on (he didn't take a shot, made 2 free throws) in that game.

Perhaps it was one bad game followed by an overreaction from the coach that resulted in our most valuable player sitting for 33 minutes. Who knows, maybe Josh saw something in his attitude or practice that we can't see, but I watched the DVR several times to see if I could see something (lack of hustle, defensive breakdown, etc) that would warrant Joe sitting the entire second half, and saw nothing, aside from one lazy pass.

I'm not arguing that Joe was playing great against Minn; but you can't give him any grade but incomplete based on a 7 minute, 0-0 FG, 2-2 FT, and 2 TO line (one of which was arguably not his fault).

(01-05-2013 01:28 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:12 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:10 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  [quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792079' dateline='1357366000']
[quote='tigerfansincebirth89' pid='8792056' dateline='1357365703']
[quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792029' dateline='1357365336']
[quote='NigelTufnel' pid='8792015' dateline='1357365122']

I guess the argument is over whether there was a turning point ... he played poorly against VCU, 7 minutes against Minnesota is hardly enough to grade him on (he didn't take a shot, made 2 free throws) in that game.

Perhaps it was one bad game followed by an overreaction from the coach that resulted in our most valuable player sitting for 33 minutes. Who knows, maybe Josh saw something in his attitude or practice that we can't see, but I watched the DVR several times to see if I could see something (lack of hustle, defensive breakdown, etc) that would warrant Joe sitting the entire second half, and saw nothing, aside from one lazy pass.

I'm not arguing that Joe was playing great against Minn; but you can't give him any grade but incomplete based on a 7 minute, 0-0 FG, 2-2 FT, and 2 TO line (one of which was arguably not his fault).

Meh

This is an old debate anyway.

Time for us to move on. Joe is playing VERY well now and that Minnesota game feels like forever ago.

(01-05-2013 01:30 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:28 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:12 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:10 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  [quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792079' dateline='1357366000']
[quote='tigerfansincebirth89' pid='8792056' dateline='1357365703']
[quote='Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas' pid='8792029' dateline='1357365336']
[quote='NigelTufnel' pid='8792015' dateline='1357365122']

I guess the argument is over whether there was a turning point ... he played poorly against VCU, 7 minutes against Minnesota is hardly enough to grade him on (he didn't take a shot, made 2 free throws) in that game.

Perhaps it was one bad game followed by an overreaction from the coach that resulted in our most valuable player sitting for 33 minutes. Who knows, maybe Josh saw something in his attitude or practice that we can't see, but I watched the DVR several times to see if I could see something (lack of hustle, defensive breakdown, etc) that would warrant Joe sitting the entire second half, and saw nothing, aside from one lazy pass.

I'm not arguing that Joe was playing great against Minn; but you can't give him any grade but incomplete based on a 7 minute, 0-0 FG, 2-2 FT, and 2 TO line (one of which was arguably not his fault).

Meh

This is an old debate anyway.

Time for us to move on. Joe is playing VERY well now and that Minnesota game feels like forever ago.

The title of the thread is "Joe Jackson's turnaround and CJP". I happen to disagree with the premise that there has been some sort of turnaround, much less that it is attributable to Josh.

Nevertheless, I agree it is time to move on and the debate is stale.

(01-05-2013 12:23 AM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  I've been a big fan of CJP while acknowledging the fact that he needs to grow as a coach in some areas. In my opinion, the turnaround of Joe Jackson has been the most impressive coaching feat of Pastner thus far and is a sign of things to come.

Joe started the season with 2 of the worst performances of his life in the Bahamas. Pastner, knowing that JJ was forcing the issue of becoming a "pure point guard" turned his season (and career) around. CJP took JJ off the ball for a few games, let him find the flow of the game again and has slowly put JJ back into the position of floor general and we have seen him play his best stretch of basketball yet. Basketball is a game that depends on players having their minds right and CJP got Joe's mind right.

I think this is a big sign of Pastner being a "player's coach". He understands the personalities of his players and what they need in order to get things right. We also saw CC play a great game being the 6th man and Adonis has started listening to CJP and being aggressive. Very good trends and looking forward to a great run in conference play.

Go Tigers!

But, but Pastner doesn't know how to coach, don't you remember. Prepare to get attacked by the know-it-alls on this board.

(01-05-2013 01:53 AM)TigerJJ Wrote:  But, but Pastner doesn't know how to coach, don't you remember. Prepare to get attacked by the know-it-alls on this board.

No attacks. Some healthy debate. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong if you know what you are talking about. Most of them don't.

(01-05-2013 02:08 AM)TigerJJ Wrote:  Nothing wrong if you know what you are talking about. Most of them don't.

They seem to be MIA tonight. We will be hearing from them as soon as the team doesn't win ECU by 30.

It's so nice and pleasant here tonight.

Joe Jackson is balling right now. All the big games, he's showed up. He's also more consistent now as well.