How do C-7 fans feel about adding UC and UConn? It might not last forever, but those are two powerful athletic programs, and with only two of us we wouldn't be able to lock up any votes and control conference decisions.


I see three potential upsides for the C-7:
1) with UC and UConn's votes, it is easier to keep the Big East name
2) With UC and UConn coming along, it is easier legally to collect the exit fees and tournament credits from the teams who left.
3) UC and UConn are the biggest national brand names in basketball among the free agents. It would elevate the conference's prestige.

I think that this would be the best situation for UC and UConn as well (since that ACC invite is not coming anytime soon). Football-only in MWC, and everything else with the C-7 + whoever else you invite (Xavier, Butler, etc).

Question for you Captain Bearcat...

Personally, I don't think you see the C7 trying to lure UConn/UC for the non-football league. Although it is more stable than what the Big East was, you still have some uncertainties.

But let's say it works out. Would you be OK with being in the same conference as Xavier, likely playing a home and home every season? Would the University of Cincinnati being in the same conference as their city-mates?

We'd be for it. But I don't see them trashing their football programs, and don't think I'd advise them to.

(01-03-2013 06:00 PM)bmorex Wrote:  Question for you Captain Bearcat...

Personally, I don't think you see the C7 trying to lure UConn/UC for the non-football league. Although it is more stable than what the Big East was, you still have some uncertainties.

But let's say it works out. Would you be OK with being in the same conference as Xavier, likely playing a home and home every season? Would the University of Cincinnati being in the same conference as their city-mates?

Actually, I wouldn't mind it. We already play Xavier in most sports anyways. It lowers travel expenses significantly, which helps the whole school.

Fifteen years ago, I would have had problems with it. Xavier's minor sports, lack of on-campus arena, and lack of fan interest relative to other major programs were big downsides. But Xavier has really built up the financial might of their athletic department since then, so it's not like we'd be lowering ourselves or sacrificing our minor sports. I really don't see any downside to it today.

And actually, I was more worried about the hate coming the other way. I have a friend in Xavier's athletic department who said that they're doing everything in their power to try to keep UC out of any conference they join. I really don't know where they get this hatred for UC, but it's definitely there. Curious coming from a Catholic institution.

(01-03-2013 06:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  We'd be for it. But I don't see them trashing their football programs, and don't think I'd advise them to.

Actually I think the best situation for our football program is to go in the Mountain West.

Bigger is better these days, and who else does the 11-team BE add after SDSU leaves? Ohio? NIU? Tulsa? The options are not attractive.

Besides UC, Boise and BYU are the best non-BCS programs, followed by Fresno, UConn, and USF. A conference with UC, Boise, and BYU as anchors will still demand at least some respect. C-USA 2.0 will not.

Well if Cinci and Uconn voted to disband the league, we could split the money and reform it with just the good teams (uconn, temple, Memphis, Cinci) throw in Xavier and butler and have a sick 13 team league. The big problem is what happens to the above mentioned 4 football teams.

(01-03-2013 06:38 PM)nathanhm Wrote:  Well if Cinci and Uconn voted to disband the league, we could split the money and reform it with just the good teams (uconn, temple, Memphis, Cinci) throw in Xavier and butler and have a sick 13 team league. The big problem is what happens to the above mentioned 4 football teams.

Do not disband. You'll lose all of Louisville, WVU, Pitt, ND and Syracuse's accumulated NCAA tourney shares and possibly some exit fees.

(01-03-2013 06:25 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 06:00 PM)bmorex Wrote:  Question for you Captain Bearcat...

Personally, I don't think you see the C7 trying to lure UConn/UC for the non-football league. Although it is more stable than what the Big East was, you still have some uncertainties.

But let's say it works out. Would you be OK with being in the same conference as Xavier, likely playing a home and home every season? Would the University of Cincinnati being in the same conference as their city-mates?

Actually, I wouldn't mind it. We already play Xavier in most sports anyways. It lowers travel expenses significantly, which helps the whole school.

Fifteen years ago, I would have had problems with it. Xavier's minor sports, lack of on-campus arena, and lack of fan interest relative to other major programs were big downsides. But Xavier has really built up the financial might of their athletic department since then, so it's not like we'd be lowering ourselves or sacrificing our minor sports. I really don't see any downside to it today.

And actually, I was more worried about the hate coming the other way. I have a friend in Xavier's athletic department who said that they're doing everything in their power to try to keep UC out of any conference they join. I really don't know where they get this hatred for UC, but it's definitely there. Curious coming from a Catholic institution.

Interesting that you've heard that. Everything that I have heard is that Mick Cronin hates playing us in basketball, and that the only reason why we're playing the Shootout down at US Bank is because that is the only way UC would agree to the game.

(Though, the whole "Catholic" thing is irrelevant. I think everyone knows that it's every man for himself in the realignment game.)

FB schools are NOT to be trusted. Sorry, but no.

I would be all for it. If we do invite Dayton, not sure how that would play out with UC, X, and Dayton so close together.

Very interesting proposal. Can the league be structured in a way that basketball is always king? Would open up a lot more possibilities for membership i.e. Duke, NC, Kansas, if football can be controlled rather than simply banned.

See Big East history for the answer to the question, I guess.

Still, I want to see the best basketball conference possible and there are pleanty of top basketball first schools out there that we cannot even consider right now. There has to be a way out of this maddness.

(01-03-2013 06:55 PM)bmorex Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 06:25 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  And actually, I was more worried about the hate coming the other way. I have a friend in Xavier's athletic department who said that they're doing everything in their power to try to keep UC out of any conference they join. I really don't know where they get this hatred for UC, but it's definitely there. Curious coming from a Catholic institution.

Interesting that you've heard that. Everything that I have heard is that Mick Cronin hates playing us in basketball, and that the only reason why we're playing the Shootout down at US Bank is because that is the only way UC would agree to the game.

(Though, the whole "Catholic" thing is irrelevant. I think everyone knows that it's every man for himself in the realignment game.)

Most coaches hate playing rivalry games. It puts their jobs on the line. It doesn't help that Mick's octogenarian father (a longtime Lasalle high school basketball coach) got drinks thrown at him during the game last year. And there's some decent arguments for having it downtown:
1) less violent crowd
2) equal for both fanbases
3) easier access in & out
4) neighborhood is safer than Avondale or Clifton with 5) more after-game entertainment options,
6) most importantly, more money to both schools due to more seats, (much) higher prices, and they don't have to include the game in the season ticket package

However, it would be pretty ridiculous to make a conference decision based on one school that you dislike playing. Our AD and President are smart enough to know that (this is actually the first time in a long time that any school I like has had both a President and an AD that are both amazing at their jobs).



My Catholic comment was more about the hatred than not wanting UC in the conference. They truly hate UC. You can see it in the eyes of my buddy who works at X whenever the topic comes up. As a Catholic myself, it's embarrassing to see fans of Catholic school act that way.

(01-03-2013 08:59 PM)Ruby Wrote:  Very interesting proposal. Can the league be structured in a way that basketball is always king? Would open up a lot more possibilities for membership i.e. Duke, NC, Kansas, if football can be controlled rather than simply banned.

See Big East history for the answer to the question, I guess.

Still, I want to see the best basketball conference possible and there are pleanty of top basketball first schools out there that we cannot even consider right now. There has to be a way out of this maddness.

Sure they could structure it that way. Don't sponsor football. If only 2 schools even have D-1a football, how can it be anything other than a basketball-first league?

The C-7 schools would have the voting supermajority, so it's really up to you what the conference's focus is. It's not like the C-7 schools are going to be tricked into sponsoring football again like they were 20 years ago.

(01-03-2013 10:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 06:55 PM)bmorex Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 06:25 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  And actually, I was more worried about the hate coming the other way. I have a friend in Xavier's athletic department who said that they're doing everything in their power to try to keep UC out of any conference they join. I really don't know where they get this hatred for UC, but it's definitely there. Curious coming from a Catholic institution.

Interesting that you've heard that. Everything that I have heard is that Mick Cronin hates playing us in basketball, and that the only reason why we're playing the Shootout down at US Bank is because that is the only way UC would agree to the game.

(Though, the whole "Catholic" thing is irrelevant. I think everyone knows that it's every man for himself in the realignment game.)

Most coaches hate playing rivalry games. It puts their jobs on the line. It doesn't help that Mick's octogenarian father (a longtime Lasalle high school basketball coach) got drinks thrown at him during the game last year. And there's some decent arguments for having it downtown:
1) less violent crowd
2) equal for both fanbases
3) easier access in & out
4) neighborhood is safer than Avondale or Clifton with 5) more after-game entertainment options,
6) most importantly, more money to both schools due to more seats, (much) higher prices, and they don't have to include the game in the season ticket package

However, it would be pretty ridiculous to make a conference decision based on one school that you dislike playing. Our AD and President are smart enough to know that (this is actually the first time in a long time that any school I like has had both a President and an AD that are both amazing at their jobs).



My Catholic comment was more about the hatred than not wanting UC in the conference. They truly hate UC. You can see it in the eyes of my buddy who works at X whenever the topic comes up. As a Catholic myself, it's embarrassing to see fans of Catholic school act that way.

Oh come on...

You could argue it would be a more violent crowd given the 50/50 split (I honestly don't know how it was this year, as I was on Christmas break.). Also, you are discounting the rent that US Bank Arena is requiring. I would be pretty surprised if either school made more money this year than past years.

As for Mick's dad, that's just ridiculous. I was sitting 5 rows away from the man who was screaming and acting inappropriate. Nothing at all was thrown at him.

I just think your Catholic argument is ridiculous. Because I am Catholic, I cannot dislike an opponent? Georgetown cannot hate Syracuse because they're Catholic, but the Orange can the other way? Get outta here, that doesn't even make sense.

It's a rivalry game; the hatred and intensity is going to be there, regardless of any religious affiliation.

(EDITED to remove brashness)

(01-03-2013 06:38 PM)nathanhm Wrote:  Well if Cinci and Uconn voted to disband the league, we could split the money and reform it with just the good teams (uconn, temple, Memphis, Cinci) throw in Xavier and butler and have a sick 13 team league. The big problem is what happens to the above mentioned 4 football teams.

If it were possible, this would be the ideal league in my opinion with VCU also added to make 14. It's going to be important to make a big splash from day one. If the new league started with 10 teams, and only had three or four make the NCAA tournament ,it would not make much of a dent on the scene nationally, and might not even be that big a deal in NYC with the Big East tournament at MSG. On the other hand, with the 14 listed above you'd have a good shot at getting 6+ in every year. There would be some great rivalry (and TV) games. Some obvious ones would be Cincy/Xavier, Cincy/Memphis, Nova/Temple, Uconn/Georgetown, Uconn/StJohns. There would be a buzz at seeing how Butler and VCU would fare against all the rest, now that they were on a bigger stage. The tournament at MSG would still be electric, and have some quality new faces replacing some of the ones we lost. But having the continuity of UConn and Cinci would be huge in my opinion. On selection Sunday everyone always notes how many teams from each conference got in, how many advance to the Sweet 16 etc.. We want to make sure we're well represented along the way. That's why I think we want to start with a strong 14 and make sure we're a force to be reckoned with from day one, and not risk being dismissed, if we have a so so season with 10. If there's any way to make it happen, I definitely want UConn and Cincy included.

(01-03-2013 06:38 PM)nathanhm Wrote:  Well if Cinci and Uconn voted to disband the league, we could split the money and reform it with just the good teams (uconn, temple, Memphis, Cinci) throw in Xavier and butler and have a sick 13 team league. The big problem is what happens to the above mentioned 4 football teams.

If the c7 were truly interested in staying with these schools, they should have prevented Tulane from being invited and should not have decided to split. They could have insisted on a maximum of 8 all-sport football schools (the minimum number of all-sport football members to qualify as an FBS conference) and added a basketball school to return to 16.

However, the C7 has grown understandably weary of the realignment merry-go-round. They want stability. UConn and Cincy are going to continue to look and/or will be affected by any further expansion activities by the Big 5. Cutting ties with these schools is necessary if the goal is stability.

(01-04-2013 08:30 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 06:38 PM)nathanhm Wrote:  Well if Cinci and Uconn voted to disband the league, we could split the money and reform it with just the good teams (uconn, temple, Memphis, Cinci) throw in Xavier and butler and have a sick 13 team league. The big problem is what happens to the above mentioned 4 football teams.

If the c7 were truly interested in staying with these schools, they should have prevented Tulane from being invited and should not have decided to split. They could have insisted on a maximum of 8 all-sport football schools (the minimum number of all-sport football members to qualify as an FBS conference) and added a basketball school to return to 16.

However, the C7 has grown understandably weary of the realignment merry-go-round. They want stability. UConn and Cincy are going to continue to look and/or will be affected by any further expansion activities by the Big 5. Cutting ties with these schools is necessary if the goal is stability.

Not that there's a point to this thread, because Cincy and UConn aren't doing this, but instability wouldn't be a big concern. No one would expect Cincy and UConn to stick around very long. It'll be fun for as long as it lasts--no exit fees, TV contracts have their modifications built in for C7 alone, C7-plus-UConn, C7-plus-Cincy variations. (For this conversation, Butler, XAvier and No. 10 are included in the C7).

We would choose whether and how to replace Cincinatti and/or UConn. No worries about getting stuck with football-oriented schools to satisfy all-sports powers who then take off for power conferences, sticking us with the stepchildren.

Cincy or UConn in the C7 Big East wouldn't be a marriage, it would be a buddy renting the spare room until he gets something permanent lined up.

I'd be more interested in Memphis and Temple over Cincinnati and UConn. They are much less likely to be invited to another conference in say the next five years. In the end, I think none of those 4 teams will end up in the C7 League.

People in favor of this idea severely underestimate the perception factor in this whole mess. If the C7 faces defections when Uconn on Cinci leave (they of course would leave) that erosion of brand is something that we do not have the cache to absorb.

Short-term, it makes sense because of past relationships and quality basketball. UC and UConn fit fine with the C7 for hoops and the other non-FB sports. It could easily work. But everyone knows going in that it is a short-term situation.

Long-term, since everyone knows UC and UConn are looking to leave for better FB $$$$, and either or both will jump as soon as the BIG makes its next move on the ACC, they don't fit. I think the C7 has decided that it is done with short-term decisions and watching schools with a FB-first mentality walk away. They are looking for long-term stability with schools that have a BB-first mindset. I don't think UC and UConn would be with the C7 for the long haul, and I believe the C7 have grown weary of the instability.