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College Basketball Fan Offline
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Post: #1
College Basketball Markets
A question I've often had when thinking about TV markets is how accurate it is for a smaller sport, like basketball (compared to the popularity of football). I don't think that college basketball viewership necessarily corresponds evenly with population size.

Sure enough, thanks to poster in the earlier TV markets thread, I've found something that should add some insight into which markets are "must have" for college basketball, and which are small potatoes. It should be noted that the data is incomplete.

Top 25 College Basketball markets (by Nielsen metered market rating):

1. Raleigh-Durham 30,872
2. Louisville 30,332
3. Kansas City 26,313
4. Charlotte 26,241
5. Atlanta 25,219
6. Columbus 25,182
7. Greensboro 24,192
8. Cleveland 21,198
9. Indianapolis 19,979
10. Chicago 18949
11. Cincinnati 18,818
12. Detroit 18,427
13. Nashville 16,393
14. Los Angeles 15278
15. St Louis 15,047
16. Houston 12870
17. Hartford 12,075
15. Pittsburgh 11,715
16. Memphis 10,719
17. Birmingham 10,343
18. Las Vegas 10,322
19. Dallas/Fort Worth 9909
20. Dayton 9,872
21. Knoxville 9,500
22. Norfolk 8,625
23. San Diego 7957
24. Phoenix 7347
25. Oklahoma City 7,126
26. Jacksonville 6,698
27. Richmond 6,153
28. Fort Myers 5,547
29. Washington D.C. 5561
30. Tulsa 5,291
31. Milwaukee 4782
32. Greenville 4,614
33. Tampa/St. Petersburg 4137
34. Albuquerque 3316
35. San Francisco 3251
36. Orlando, Florida 1945
37. West Palm Beach, Florida: 707

Unfortunately, I could only find data for 37 of the 56 Nielsen metered markets (and some of the programs that are candidates are not in one of those markets). However, we can glean a little knowledge from what I have.

Basically, this information tells us a couple of things. First, the biggest and best basketball markets are places with blue-blood teams that have won consistently throughout the years, creating a large number of fans. This is especially true is areas without competing sports (NBA, NFL, MLB, hockey, high level CFB).

So what any league wants are teams without competing sports, near fairly large population centers, with historical and recent success. How much of a factor are those competing sports? Well, Scarborough USA has calculated that the follow represent the people with any sort of interest in varying sports:

NFL: 60%
Winter Olympics: 58%
Summer Olympics: 57%
MLB: 51%
CFB: 37%
NBA: 34%
NASCAR: 32%
NHL: 25%

So I think the reasonable assertions are that towns with NFL or MLB teams generally make poor college basketball towns; the people are far more likely to be fans of the other two sports. Other sports may have a smaller drain.

Now, let's see what this means in terms of conference expansion:

Catholic 7 (estimating non-listed markets at 0.15 rating)
DePaul (Chicago): 18494
Georgetown (Washington, D.C): 5561
Marquette (Milwaukee): 4782
----information below may not be accurate----
Seton Hall (New York): 12367
St. John's (New York): 12367
Villanova (Philadelphia): 2304 (smaller actually, as that would be for all college basketball teams in Philly)
Providence (Providence): 267 (I'd expect about 1000-2000 in reality)


Now, take a look at potential candidates:

Wichita State (Kansas City): 26313 (smaller, because KC is split already between KU, KState, and Missouri fans, but would also dominate Wichita market)
Butler (Indianapolis): 19979
Xavier (Cincinnati): 18818 (larger, because it would also draw a portion of Dayton)
Saint Louis (Saint Louis): 15047
Duquesne (Pittsburgh): 11715
Dayton (Dayton): 9872 (see: Xavier)
VCU (Richmond): 6153
Richmond (Richmond): 6153
Creighton (Omaha): 622 (would expect 2000-3000)
Gonzaga (Spokane): 315 (would expect 1000+)


The important thing to note is that these numbers are likely more accurate than simple market size numbers, because they more accurately predict the numbers for college basketball viewership (and thus, the actual bonus from adding each school).

The problem is that I really need more complete information. I only know for sure the numbers of three of the Catholic 7 markets, and I'm missing information for Wichita (listed as Kansas City), Omaha, and Spokane as well.

From what I'd guess, I'd say the following make the most sense to add, with media market as the main consideration:

1. Butler
2. Xavier
3. Saint Louis
4. Wichita State
5. Dayton
6a/6b. VCU/Richmond
8. Duquesne
9. Creighton
10. Gonzaga
12-24-2012 04:08 AM
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thegalen Offline
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Post: #2
RE: College Basketball Markets
(12-24-2012 04:08 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  A question I've often had when thinking about TV markets is how accurate it is for a smaller sport, like basketball (compared to the popularity of football). I don't think that college basketball viewership necessarily corresponds evenly with population size.

Sure enough, thanks to poster in the earlier TV markets thread, I've found something that should add some insight into which markets are "must have" for college basketball, and which are small potatoes. It should be noted that the data is incomplete.

Top 25 College Basketball markets (by Nielsen metered market rating):

1. Raleigh-Durham 30,872
2. Louisville 30,332
3. Kansas City 26,313
4. Charlotte 26,241
5. Atlanta 25,219
6. Columbus 25,182
7. Greensboro 24,192
8. Cleveland 21,198
9. Indianapolis 19,979
10. Chicago 18949
11. Cincinnati 18,818
12. Detroit 18,427
13. Nashville 16,393
14. Los Angeles 15278
15. St Louis 15,047
16. Houston 12870
17. Hartford 12,075
15. Pittsburgh 11,715
16. Memphis 10,719
17. Birmingham 10,343
18. Las Vegas 10,322
19. Dallas/Fort Worth 9909
20. Dayton 9,872
21. Knoxville 9,500
22. Norfolk 8,625
23. San Diego 7957
24. Phoenix 7347
25. Oklahoma City 7,126
26. Jacksonville 6,698
27. Richmond 6,153
28. Fort Myers 5,547
29. Washington D.C. 5561
30. Tulsa 5,291
31. Milwaukee 4782
32. Greenville 4,614
33. Tampa/St. Petersburg 4137
34. Albuquerque 3316
35. San Francisco 3251
36. Orlando, Florida 1945
37. West Palm Beach, Florida: 707

Unfortunately, I could only find data for 37 of the 56 Nielsen metered markets (and some of the programs that are candidates are not in one of those markets). However, we can glean a little knowledge from what I have.

Basically, this information tells us a couple of things. First, the biggest and best basketball markets are places with blue-blood teams that have won consistently throughout the years, creating a large number of fans. This is especially true is areas without competing sports (NBA, NFL, MLB, hockey, high level CFB).

So what any league wants are teams without competing sports, near fairly large population centers, with historical and recent success. How much of a factor are those competing sports? Well, Scarborough USA has calculated that the follow represent the people with any sort of interest in varying sports:

NFL: 60%
Winter Olympics: 58%
Summer Olympics: 57%
MLB: 51%
CFB: 37%
NBA: 34%
NASCAR: 32%
NHL: 25%

So I think the reasonable assertions are that towns with NFL or MLB teams generally make poor college basketball towns; the people are far more likely to be fans of the other two sports. Other sports may have a smaller drain.

Now, let's see what this means in terms of conference expansion:

Catholic 7 (estimating non-listed markets at 0.15 rating)
DePaul (Chicago): 18494
Georgetown (Washington, D.C): 5561
Marquette (Milwaukee): 4782
----information below may not be accurate----
Seton Hall (New York): 12367
St. John's (New York): 12367
Villanova (Philadelphia): 2304 (smaller actually, as that would be for all college basketball teams in Philly)
Providence (Providence): 267 (I'd expect about 1000-2000 in reality)


Now, take a look at potential candidates:

Wichita State (Kansas City): 26313 (smaller, because KC is split already between KU, KState, and Missouri fans, but would also dominate Wichita market)
Butler (Indianapolis): 19979
Xavier (Cincinnati): 18818 (larger, because it would also draw a portion of Dayton)
Saint Louis (Saint Louis): 15047
Duquesne (Pittsburgh): 11715
Dayton (Dayton): 9872 (see: Xavier)
VCU (Richmond): 6153
Richmond (Richmond): 6153
Creighton (Omaha): 622 (would expect 2000-3000)
Gonzaga (Spokane): 315 (would expect 1000+)


The important thing to note is that these numbers are likely more accurate than simple market size numbers, because they more accurately predict the numbers for college basketball viewership (and thus, the actual bonus from adding each school).

The problem is that I really need more complete information. I only know for sure the numbers of three of the Catholic 7 markets, and I'm missing information for Wichita (listed as Kansas City), Omaha, and Spokane as well.

From what I'd guess, I'd say the following make the most sense to add, with media market as the main consideration:

1. Butler
2. Xavier
3. Saint Louis
4. Wichita State
5. Dayton
6a/6b. VCU/Richmond
8. Duquesne
9. Creighton
10. Gonzaga
Here are the top 25 college basketball markets for 2011-2012 by points (1 point = 1% of the 114 million TV households):
Top 25 Markets for 2011-12

No. 1 Louisville: 4.5 rating

No. 2 Greensboro: 3.5 rating

No. 3 Kansas City: 2.8 rating

No. 4 Columbus: 2.7 rating

Raleigh-Durham 2.7 rating

No. 6 Charlotte: 2.3 rating

No. 7 Cincinnati: 2.1 rating

No. 8 Dayton: 2.0 rating

No. 9 Indianapolis: 1.8 rating

Knoxville: 1.8 rating

No. 11 Memphis: 1.6 rating

Nashville: 1.6 rating

No. 13 Greenville: 1.5 rating

No. 14 Cleveland: 1.4 rating

Birmingham: 1.4 rating

Las Vegas: 1.4 rating

No. 17 Norfolk: 1.2 rating

Hartford: 1.2 rating

St. Louis: 1.2 rating

No. 20 Fort Myers: 1.1 rating

Atlanta: 1.1 rating

Richmond: 1.1 rating

No. 23 Pittsburgh: 1.0 rating

Detroit: 1.0 rating

Oklahoma City: 1.0 rating

Jacksonville: 1.0 rating

Tulsa: 1.0 rating
http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releas.../11/60498/

Just as we saw with the rankings plotted against population, there's a lot of clustering at the top and then the tail flattens out. You touched on the trickiest aspect of gleaning info from this data: a city may be ranked highly because of fandom that's baked into the cake for legacy teams. So if Kansas City has a 2.8, let's say 50% are KU watchers and 25% are K State/Mizzou fans, you've got .7 of the 2.8 left for fans of "other" (to include WSU). How much goes to WSU, how much goes to miscellaneous teams? The other interesting angle is the regional sports/college basketball "ecology." You touched on the impact of pro-teams on amateur viewership, but just as important is a school's geographic footprint. I'll use the University of Richmond and VCU as an example. Richmond pulls a ton of kids from New Jersey and other New England states. VCU is pulling mostly Northern Virginia/Norfolk-Hampton Roads students (2 of our 5 starters are from the 757). So same city, but very different connections to said city, and big variation in the geographic distribution of alumni. Another interesting complication is sort of a chicken and egg/Field of Dreams question of path dependancy: if you build it, will they come? That is, in the case of a former MVC, CAA or A10 team, would being in a new elite basketball conference change the market? Obviously you're not going to replicate Tobacco Row's culture by bringing in better opponents, but I suspect that some markets (and regionally connected mega-markets) have a higher upside than other. Interesting stuff, thanks for the post and the data!
12-24-2012 10:20 AM
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College Basketball Fan Offline
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Post: #3
RE: College Basketball Markets
(12-24-2012 10:20 AM)thegalen Wrote:  http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releas.../11/60498/

Just as we saw with the rankings plotted against population, there's a lot of clustering at the top and then the tail flattens out. You touched on the trickiest aspect of gleaning info from this data: a city may be ranked highly because of fandom that's baked into the cake for legacy teams. So if Kansas City has a 2.8, let's say 50% are KU watchers and 25% are K State/Mizzou fans, you've got .7 of the 2.8 left for fans of "other" (to include WSU). How much goes to WSU, how much goes to miscellaneous teams? The other interesting angle is the regional sports/college basketball "ecology." You touched on the impact of pro-teams on amateur viewership, but just as important is a school's geographic footprint. I'll use the University of Richmond and VCU as an example. Richmond pulls a ton of kids from New Jersey and other New England states. VCU is pulling mostly Northern Virginia/Norfolk-Hampton Roads students (2 of our 5 starters are from the 757). So same city, but very different connections to said city, and big variation in the geographic distribution of alumni. Another interesting complication is sort of a chicken and egg/Field of Dreams question of path dependancy: if you build it, will they come? That is, in the case of a former MVC, CAA or A10 team, would being in a new elite basketball conference change the market? Obviously you're not going to replicate Tobacco Row's culture by bringing in better opponents, but I suspect that some markets (and regionally connected mega-markets) have a higher upside than other. Interesting stuff, thanks for the post and the data!

Actually, the data I used came from that ESPN article, though I had to do some stuff to account for populations and such.

The interesting thing to me is that I don't think basketball markets are "tapped out" as much as other sports markets. Look at the top markets (from a ratings standpoint). Most of them are near a collection of strong teams, like North Carolina triangle (or the Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky triangle). I seems like these teams tend to add viewers fairly linearly.

The reasoning, I think, is that these closely linked cities tend to produce fans that watch games of interest from multiple teams. This affect looks like it has several factors that influence it: proximity, similarity in competition, similarity in population (size and demographics, and a few others.

From what I've seen in the data, the most important factors that permit this "fan-sharing" are close distances and a similar sports profile. For example, Wichita, Omaha, and Tulsa all likely share some fans that would consider Wichita State or Creighton games to be games of interest (they would watch even if they were not directly a fan of the school). However, Kansas City would have a smaller percentage of this affect because it has a different sports profile even though the distances are reduced.

The other interesting things about this are that, as you point out, students and alumni aren't all clustered around the city closest to the college. This means that the school can create these "games of interest" even in areas far away from the university. You mentioned VCU (which also draws from the Washington D.C. market for students), but another example is Saint Louis. Saint Louis is a Midwestern school, but they have alumni mostly around the east coast and mostly draw students from those areas. Thus, they don't draw incredibly well from the Saint Louis market but do get a lot of love from their own market but certainly should draw some from a multitude of large cities on the east coast. I shouldn't need to mention that this sort of thing also affects recruiting.

In essence, it boils down to which teams are interesting and whether or not the population around them cares about college basketball. Teams can create interest by being good for long periods of time (blue-blood schools), by developing rivalries with schools in other cities, and by creating lasting attachment (students, alumni).

The major factors that can prevent a team from developing this interest are competing sports (NFL especially), small populations to draw from, and long periods of futility.

So, let's look at the "webs of interest" for some of these teams. I'd appreciate it if people contributed their knowledge because I'm don't know everything about every school. Essentially, just list the cities that may have influence on, in descending order.

Here are the schools that I can reasonably extrapolate on:

Wichita State: Wichita > Tulsa > Kansas City > Omaha >> Houston (Wichita State has had consecutive recruits from Houston for longer than Houston University)
Creighton: Omaha > Wichita >> Kansas City > Des Moines = Texas (in general, they recruit a lot from the Texas area)
Xavier: Cincinnati > Dayton >> Columbus >> Indianapolis = Lexington = Louisville = Louisville
Dayton: Dayton > Cincinnati >> Columbus >> Indianapolis = Lexington = Louisville = Louisville
Butler: Indianapolis > Dayton > Fort Wayne >> Columbus = Cincinnati
VCU: Richmond > Norfolk = Washington D.C > Virginia Beach
Saint Louis: Saint Louis >> Kansas City = Springfield > East coast cities (Scattered)

I can't really give an accurate count of what this means in terms of ratings, eyeballs, but it does give some idea to the impact that these teams would have. Xavier, Dayton, and Butler are all in the Mecca of college basketball (surrounded by the most supportive basketball communities), while other schools draw from a variety of different areas. Again, I would appreciate it if fans from other schools can help define their schools net-of-interest better.
12-24-2012 11:47 AM
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thegalen Offline
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Post: #4
RE: College Basketball Markets
(12-24-2012 11:47 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(12-24-2012 10:20 AM)thegalen Wrote:  http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releas.../11/60498/

Just as we saw with the rankings plotted against population, there's a lot of clustering at the top and then the tail flattens out. You touched on the trickiest aspect of gleaning info from this data: a city may be ranked highly because of fandom that's baked into the cake for legacy teams. So if Kansas City has a 2.8, let's say 50% are KU watchers and 25% are K State/Mizzou fans, you've got .7 of the 2.8 left for fans of "other" (to include WSU). How much goes to WSU, how much goes to miscellaneous teams? The other interesting angle is the regional sports/college basketball "ecology." You touched on the impact of pro-teams on amateur viewership, but just as important is a school's geographic footprint. I'll use the University of Richmond and VCU as an example. Richmond pulls a ton of kids from New Jersey and other New England states. VCU is pulling mostly Northern Virginia/Norfolk-Hampton Roads students (2 of our 5 starters are from the 757). So same city, but very different connections to said city, and big variation in the geographic distribution of alumni. Another interesting complication is sort of a chicken and egg/Field of Dreams question of path dependancy: if you build it, will they come? That is, in the case of a former MVC, CAA or A10 team, would being in a new elite basketball conference change the market? Obviously you're not going to replicate Tobacco Row's culture by bringing in better opponents, but I suspect that some markets (and regionally connected mega-markets) have a higher upside than other. Interesting stuff, thanks for the post and the data!

Actually, the data I used came from that ESPN article, though I had to do some stuff to account for populations and such.

The interesting thing to me is that I don't think basketball markets are "tapped out" as much as other sports markets. Look at the top markets (from a ratings standpoint). Most of them are near a collection of strong teams, like North Carolina triangle (or the Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky triangle). I seems like these teams tend to add viewers fairly linearly.

The reasoning, I think, is that these closely linked cities tend to produce fans that watch games of interest from multiple teams. This affect looks like it has several factors that influence it: proximity, similarity in competition, similarity in population (size and demographics, and a few others.

From what I've seen in the data, the most important factors that permit this "fan-sharing" are close distances and a similar sports profile. For example, Wichita, Omaha, and Tulsa all likely share some fans that would consider Wichita State or Creighton games to be games of interest (they would watch even if they were not directly a fan of the school). However, Kansas City would have a smaller percentage of this affect because it has a different sports profile even though the distances are reduced.

The other interesting things about this are that, as you point out, students and alumni aren't all clustered around the city closest to the college. This means that the school can create these "games of interest" even in areas far away from the university. You mentioned VCU (which also draws from the Washington D.C. market for students), but another example is Saint Louis. Saint Louis is a Midwestern school, but they have alumni mostly around the east coast and mostly draw students from those areas. Thus, they don't draw incredibly well from the Saint Louis market but do get a lot of love from their own market but certainly should draw some from a multitude of large cities on the east coast. I shouldn't need to mention that this sort of thing also affects recruiting.

In essence, it boils down to which teams are interesting and whether or not the population around them cares about college basketball. Teams can create interest by being good for long periods of time (blue-blood schools), by developing rivalries with schools in other cities, and by creating lasting attachment (students, alumni).

The major factors that can prevent a team from developing this interest are competing sports (NFL especially), small populations to draw from, and long periods of futility.

So, let's look at the "webs of interest" for some of these teams. I'd appreciate it if people contributed their knowledge because I'm don't know everything about every school. Essentially, just list the cities that may have influence on, in descending order.

Here are the schools that I can reasonably extrapolate on:

Wichita State: Wichita > Tulsa > Kansas City > Omaha >> Houston (Wichita State has had consecutive recruits from Houston for longer than Houston University)
Creighton: Omaha > Wichita >> Kansas City > Des Moines = Texas (in general, they recruit a lot from the Texas area)
Xavier: Cincinnati > Dayton >> Columbus >> Indianapolis = Lexington = Louisville = Louisville
Dayton: Dayton > Cincinnati >> Columbus >> Indianapolis = Lexington = Louisville = Louisville
Butler: Indianapolis > Dayton > Fort Wayne >> Columbus = Cincinnati
VCU: Richmond > Norfolk = Washington D.C > Virginia Beach
Saint Louis: Saint Louis >> Kansas City = Springfield > East coast cities (Scattered)

I can't really give an accurate count of what this means in terms of ratings, eyeballs, but it does give some idea to the impact that these teams would have. Xavier, Dayton, and Butler are all in the Mecca of college basketball (surrounded by the most supportive basketball communities), while other schools draw from a variety of different areas. Again, I would appreciate it if fans from other schools can help define their schools net-of-interest better.
Great observations. Man, I love these kinds of posts! Teeing off what you laid out, what you (or the C7 execs) would want to do is get a complete picture of the individual school networks and regional sports ecology, and then overlay it into combined C7 network and then mix and match addition schools' networks to see what the various combinations look like in toto. Then you want to decide if you're going to try and lockup, say, the Ohio area basketball market by bringing in Dayton after X and Butler, or if there are diminishing returns with concentration, maybe you look at bringing in a smaller, underdeveloped market and try to build rivalries/regional synergy. Obviously I'm biased as hell in favor of VCU, but as an example our school's healthy contingent of DC area fans brings the Richmond market but also helps with conference demand/exposure in the DC market and offers a potential future rivalry. In turn, Georgetown brings many students in from the Northeast in and around C7 schools in that same region. Certainly the same can be said about bringing in all the Ohio area schools. Man, wish I wasn't stuck on my phone. Someone come up with some network maps!
12-24-2012 12:30 PM
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Roader Offline
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Post: #5
RE: College Basketball Markets
I don't think you could put UD in the Lexington, Louisville, or Indy market. It would be dayton, cincy, cBus, Lima, and Richmond, IN areas
12-24-2012 02:10 PM
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RE: College Basketball Markets
(12-24-2012 02:10 PM)Roader Wrote:  I don't think you could put UD in the Lexington, Louisville, or Indy market. It would be dayton, cincy, cBus, Lima, and Richmond, IN areas

I was giving them meager votes because of their proximity to those cities, but I don't know the media circumstances of every team. Thanks for the information.
12-24-2012 02:19 PM
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