(12-18-2012 11:42 AM)calvin12 Wrote:  an apartment complex that constantly throws parties and give drink to underage people.

So the exact same as every apartment complex I ever lived in at NIU. What apartment complex didn't have parties going on with underage people drinking?

(12-18-2012 01:13 PM)RitzHuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 10:26 AM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:00 AM)RitzHuskie Wrote:  They may as well just get rid of all Frats at NIU at this point.

The ignorance in this post is staggering. This was a tragic, but isolated event. NIU's fraternity system has gone through MASSIVE reforms in the last decade. This has included reformed policies with alcohol consumption, parties, pledging, greater alumni involvement, greater university involvement and better security measures.

The ROI for the university from an alumni standpoint is also a benefit. The majority of their alumni donations come from fraternity alumni.
To typecast all Greeks at NIU because of one event (or events that happened as an undergrad when you were at NIU years ago) is the equivalent of me declaring that all student parties, or drinking should be stopped in DeKalb because of the shooting that occurred at a party around Thanksgiving last year that left a student dead.

Do we know this to be true? Were Barsema, Calamos, Yordan, Chessick, etc. all part of the Greek System?

Yes,
Barsema was an SAE, his son currently is
Yordon was a Sig Pi
Chessick was a member of Alpha Epsilon Pi

(12-18-2012 01:41 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 01:13 PM)RitzHuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 10:26 AM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:00 AM)RitzHuskie Wrote:  They may as well just get rid of all Frats at NIU at this point.

The ignorance in this post is staggering. This was a tragic, but isolated event. NIU's fraternity system has gone through MASSIVE reforms in the last decade. This has included reformed policies with alcohol consumption, parties, pledging, greater alumni involvement, greater university involvement and better security measures.

The ROI for the university from an alumni standpoint is also a benefit. The majority of their alumni donations come from fraternity alumni.
To typecast all Greeks at NIU because of one event (or events that happened as an undergrad when you were at NIU years ago) is the equivalent of me declaring that all student parties, or drinking should be stopped in DeKalb because of the shooting that occurred at a party around Thanksgiving last year that left a student dead.

Do we know this to be true? Were Barsema, Calamos, Yordan, Chessick, etc. all part of the Greek System?

Yes,
Barsema was an SAE, his son currently is
Yordon was a Sig Pi
Chessick was a member of Alpha Epsilon Pi

Gee, now I know why I am not a millionaire. I was the stupid one, spending all my years in a sorority - I Ata Thi.

I thought the Pikes were supposed to be the milk and cookies frat. At least that's what I remember reading in some campus life magazine a long time ago.

Sometimes college students do stupid things, and sometimes those students are Fraternity members.

It's now gone national.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/17/22-...latestnews

How can this tragedy, make NIU a better place?
THere are probably no simple solutions to this complex problem which involves the entire University.
Should all Greeks and maybe students have to undergo an alcohol awareness class, where they learn that the LD(50) , Lethal dose that kills 50%
of people is 0.4. Should they learn about how alcohol interacts with drugs?
If this young man was taking medications, then the alcohol interaction might have been catastrophic.
What about a more compassionate student body that accepts, students with both physical and mental disabilities and respects their limitations.
Is it cool to make someone with a heart problem drink many shots? Instead of aiming for a norm which disregards these differences, why not embrace our differences and come together without forcing people to act in a certain way, whether it be getting drunk or behaving according to a "cool" set of norms.

Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

(12-18-2012 12:09 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 11:42 AM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 09:57 AM)ewhite1052 Wrote:  Such a terrible tragedy... I lived in that house on Hillcrest as a Skull (Phi Kappa Sigma) for 2 years.

When I saw it on the news, I was so shocked... and sadden. Unfortunately, this type of thing could happen anywhere on campus. It just takes someone on a mission to get "wasted" and not knowing when to stop.

I think peoples imaginations run wild when they think of what goes on in a "Frat" house. The days of hazing are gone, and the wild mixers ended when I was a freshmen there in the late 90's. Today its very much like being in a apartment complex that you happen to know many of the inhabitants.

I do think the punishment is a bit extreme though and they should have targeted the house officers with the charges. (President, VP, etc) Ultimately its their responsibility for the Fraternity.

an apartment complex that constantly throws parties and give drink to underage people.

Which is no different than the dorms. We should shut all those down too!

except the dorms don't supply it.

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

(12-18-2012 05:12 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

(12-18-2012 05:21 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:12 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

No, just from knowing people who were there.

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

Some do. Some also spend extensive amounts of time with their board going through risk management, risk assessment and crisis management plans.

(12-18-2012 05:27 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

Some do. Some also spend extensive amounts of time with their board going through risk management, risk assessment and crisis management plans.

Mine did.

(12-18-2012 05:23 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:21 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:12 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 03:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Seems like that level of BAC could have killed someone whether they had a heart problem or not. I never understood the whole hazing thing, though I was never in a frat. I think kids just don't have a healthy enough respect for the damage that alcohol can do.

TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

No, just from knowing people who were there.

70s? 80s? even the early 90s were a very very different time that now. NIU has done a lot to move the fraternities away from what they were during that time. Yes, there are some hold overs, but I lot of them have either been overhauled or have been phased out.

(12-18-2012 05:32 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:23 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:21 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:12 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 04:25 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  TRue "7", however if someone is on medication, or suffers extra stress during hazing, less alcohol can do more damage.

When we are young our liver can clear alcohol much quicker and more efficiently then, when we age. Usually young people are less likely to be on medications or even foods which interact with alcohol.

Too much alcohol (ET-OH)causes heart stress. If you combine it with physical stress it becomes too much for the heart to handle. THe body can only clear ET-OH at a constant rate, so the quicker you drink , the more ET-OH stays in your body. If you are on medication , very often the same liver enzymes used to detoxify and clear alcohol from your system are engaged dissolving the medications. This may boost the bodies alcohol levels in addition to the medication levels to dangerously high levels.

Greek houses should be taught how to recognize for the signs of Atrial fibrillation, know how to administer the proper medication and be trained to give Electrical cardio-version.
Does NIU even have several electrical cardio-version machines?

THere should be one in the gym, library, dorms and unfortunately in a place where frats can have quick access to them. They save lives.

Frats should be trained about accepting members who take medications,
and to know which drugs can interact with alcohol.
If in doubt, drink water.

frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

No, just from knowing people who were there.

70s? 80s? even the early 90s were a very very different time that now. NIU has done a lot to move the fraternities away from what they were during that time. Yes, there are some hold overs, but I lot of them have either been overhauled or have been phased out.

and its worked so well, just ask the dead guy.

(12-18-2012 05:34 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:32 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:23 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:21 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:12 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  frats know all about how drugs and alcohol mix, that's how they get the roofies to the underage girls.

Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

No, just from knowing people who were there.

70s? 80s? even the early 90s were a very very different time that now. NIU has done a lot to move the fraternities away from what they were during that time. Yes, there are some hold overs, but I lot of them have either been overhauled or have been phased out.

and its worked so well, just ask the dead guy.

Look, I can't speak for all of them. But I can tell you that I've spent a lot time in the last 5 years in meetings with University Officials and with other NIU Greek alumni in attempts to improve the situation. Not all of the 16+ fraternities have the same level of commitment. This is a tragic accident. But there have been plenty of situations that have been resolved without a worst case scenario like this happening because members have been given the tools they need to avoid these kind of things, and to understand why hazing is senseless, and unneeded.

(12-18-2012 05:40 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:34 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:32 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:23 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:21 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  Sigh. Your ability to typecast is also impressive. Tell me, did one of the "bros" steal your g/f as an undergrad? Or are you assuming what you've seen in movies like Old School and PCU to be 100% true. If so, I have a number of films from the paperback grotto that will completely blow your mind on sororities.

Don't assume all "frats" or fraternities are the same.

No, just from knowing people who were there.

70s? 80s? even the early 90s were a very very different time that now. NIU has done a lot to move the fraternities away from what they were during that time. Yes, there are some hold overs, but I lot of them have either been overhauled or have been phased out.

and its worked so well, just ask the dead guy.

Look, I can't speak for all of them. But I can tell you that I've spent a lot time in the last 5 years in meetings with University Officials and with other NIU Greek alumni in attempts to improve the situation. Not all of the 16+ fraternities have the same level of commitment. This is a tragic accident. But there have been plenty of situations that have been resolved without a worst case scenario like this happening because members have been given the tools they need to avoid these kind of things, and to understand why hazing is senseless, and unneeded.

supplying and cohersing alcohol consumption to under (or of age) people is not an accident.

(12-18-2012 05:53 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:40 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:34 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:32 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  

(12-18-2012 05:23 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  No, just from knowing people who were there.

70s? 80s? even the early 90s were a very very different time that now. NIU has done a lot to move the fraternities away from what they were during that time. Yes, there are some hold overs, but I lot of them have either been overhauled or have been phased out.

and its worked so well, just ask the dead guy.

Look, I can't speak for all of them. But I can tell you that I've spent a lot time in the last 5 years in meetings with University Officials and with other NIU Greek alumni in attempts to improve the situation. Not all of the 16+ fraternities have the same level of commitment. This is a tragic accident. But there have been plenty of situations that have been resolved without a worst case scenario like this happening because members have been given the tools they need to avoid these kind of things, and to understand why hazing is senseless, and unneeded.

supplying and cohersing alcohol consumption to under (or of age) people is not an accident.

No, that isn't an accident. I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you think abstinence is the only thing that should be taught in schools too. That way when teen pregnancy does occur, we can shrug and say, well that was no accident.

Look, ideally, the undergrads would all don their NIU sweaters and slacks and head to class, then return, read from their books, dine in the hall and then go to bed promptly at 8p, assuming the basketball game doesn't go late.

But in reality underage drinking does occur. Forced underage drinking does occur, whether at the hands of a fraternity, or in the dorms due to peer pressure. Some fraternities and the University have taken proper steps to make sure that this doesn't happen, and when it does, it is handled appropriately. Some have opted not to.

Yes, underage drinking does happen, but the problem here (or at least on of the biggest) is that the Frat purposely violated university rules by having a unsanctioned (and un regulated) party with booze.