I apologize for the picture that comes up here at first is a handgun. It's not very appropriate considering the circumstances. But, what bothers me is the idea that some people believe the 2nd Amendment is the only one of our individual liberties that is absolute. We're perfectly fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights, but we can't talk about the 2nd. I think that, at some point, we need at least a serious discussion on gun control.
For those of you who think our President is out to take your guns.... After Tuscon, we were told that something should be done. After Aurora, we were told that something should be done. We've been told after today's tragedy that something needs to be done to prevent these things from happening. What has the Obama administration done about gun control? You can now carry guns in our national parks and on Amtrak trains.
OK. Something needs to done short of arming everyone (including kindergartners). I'm just tired of this. Done with political rant.
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2012 02:30 AM by STexMiner.)
(12-15-2012 02:05 AM)STexMiner Wrote: I generally hate to write about politics....
I apologize for the picture that comes up here at first is a handgun. It's not very appropriate considering the circumstances. But, what bothers me is the idea that some people believe the 2nd Amendment is the only one of our individual liberties that is absolute. We're perfectly fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights, but we can't talk about the 2nd. I think that, at some point, we need at least a serious discussion on gun control.
Is this a joke? People that exercise their 2nd Amendment rights have to deal with plenty of infringements.
(12-15-2012 02:05 AM)STexMiner Wrote: I generally hate to write about politics....
I apologize for the picture that comes up here at first is a handgun. It's not very appropriate considering the circumstances. But, what bothers me is the idea that some people believe the 2nd Amendment is the only one of our individual liberties that is absolute. We're perfectly fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights, but we can't talk about the 2nd. I think that, at some point, we need at least a serious discussion on gun control.
For those of you who think our President is out to take your guns.... After Tuscon, we were told that something should be done. After Aurora, we were told that something should be done. We've been told after today's tragedy that something needs to be done to prevent these things from happening. What has the Obama administration done about gun control? You can now carry guns in our national parks and on Amtrak trains.
OK. Something needs to done short of arming everyone (including kindergartners). I'm just tired of this. Done with political rant.
Here's where I believe that you may be mistaken: many of us are NOT fine with fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights...
I have been watching this thread and feeling rather disturbed because my statement seemed to unintentionally started a discussion I did not want to start. I certainly could make points on my thoughts as to what I would like to see come from the tragedy, and as far as some of the statements on the 2nd amendment and rights of people in our nation, I can make the following statement, read it as it was written without trying to spin it. I also did law enforcement in the military and security briefly after leaving the military, and so I could give my views based on that, but frankly, I don't want to do that here. There is a forum here for that and out of respect for others I will keep my political views to myself or to that forum but not here. I remember the tragic shooting here in Arizona and sadly had been working with young staffer that died that day. These shootings bring back sadness in my heart and certainly others, so my heart goes out to the victims family, the community, and the nation, and the political discussion needs to be had, but not on this thread because I, like others, am here to discuss sports and a thread like this one is simply one that should express grief and discussion beyond that should be done at the political forum here.
(12-14-2012 04:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: Now they're saying the shooter was the younger brother - Adam Lanza, not Ryan Lanza. He killed himself but was carrying his brother's ID. So the wrong brother was ID'ed first. This was one messed-up (and sick, but that goes without saying) individual. I think the older brother is alive (although I did see a report that he was killed by his brother before the shootings). But now reports are saying he's talking to authorities right now about his younger brother.
Sounds like the media doesn't know ****. It was this guy, wait no, this one. He killed the guy we thought it was.. wait, no, he's talking to cops. The media is a joke.
(12-14-2012 04:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: Now they're saying the shooter was the younger brother - Adam Lanza, not Ryan Lanza. He killed himself but was carrying his brother's ID. So the wrong brother was ID'ed first. This was one messed-up (and sick, but that goes without saying) individual. I think the older brother is alive (although I did see a report that he was killed by his brother before the shootings). But now reports are saying he's talking to authorities right now about his younger brother.
Sounds like the media doesn't know ****. It was this guy, wait no, this one. He killed the guy we thought it was.. wait, no, he's talking to cops. The media is a joke.
I can tell you the media is just going with what reports they can get. It is due to instant news in so many fashions that sometimes they don't verify reports and turn up reporting what the heard. It is a tough job and frankly from first hand experience, I will have say I have seen reporters try to create an event that wasn't going to happen without them. Many are real journalist and I respect them, but some for whatever reason, career advancement, network has an agenda, or whatever tends to get the spotlight and then commentators who try to pass themselves off as journalist but have an interest one way or another are often confused as real journalist. They aren't. News you give hard cold, confirmed by more than one source, and your opinion of what the news is, left to the side. What the reader/listener does with doesn't matter because the journalist isn't reporting for any side.
(12-15-2012 02:05 AM)STexMiner Wrote: I generally hate to write about politics....
I apologize for the picture that comes up here at first is a handgun. It's not very appropriate considering the circumstances. But, what bothers me is the idea that some people believe the 2nd Amendment is the only one of our individual liberties that is absolute. We're perfectly fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights, but we can't talk about the 2nd. I think that, at some point, we need at least a serious discussion on gun control.
For those of you who think our President is out to take your guns.... After Tuscon, we were told that something should be done. After Aurora, we were told that something should be done. We've been told after today's tragedy that something needs to be done to prevent these things from happening. What has the Obama administration done about gun control? You can now carry guns in our national parks and on Amtrak trains.
OK. Something needs to done short of arming everyone (including kindergartners). I'm just tired of this. Done with political rant.
Here's where I believe that you may be mistaken: many of us are NOT fine with fine with infringements on our 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th Amendment rights...
Many people are ******* so they have to carry a gun
(12-14-2012 04:51 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: Now they're saying the shooter was the younger brother - Adam Lanza, not Ryan Lanza. He killed himself but was carrying his brother's ID. So the wrong brother was ID'ed first. This was one messed-up (and sick, but that goes without saying) individual. I think the older brother is alive (although I did see a report that he was killed by his brother before the shootings). But now reports are saying he's talking to authorities right now about his younger brother.
Sounds like the media doesn't know ****. It was this guy, wait no, this one. He killed the guy we thought it was.. wait, no, he's talking to cops. The media is a joke.
I can tell you the media is just going with what reports they can get. It is due to instant news in so many fashions that sometimes they don't verify reports and turn up reporting what the heard. It is a tough job and frankly from first hand experience, I will have say I have seen reporters try to create an event that wasn't going to happen without them. Many are real journalist and I respect them, but some for whatever reason, career advancement, network has an agenda, or whatever tends to get the spotlight and then commentators who try to pass themselves off as journalist but have an interest one way or another are often confused as real journalist. They aren't. News you give hard cold, confirmed by more than one source, and your opinion of what the news is, left to the side. What the reader/listener does with doesn't matter because the journalist isn't reporting for any side.
I started watching MSNBC on Friday when I heard about the news. I got tired of it and switched to CNN. They were dragging way behind MSNBC in info, so I went back to MSNBC.
Guess what? All of the "extra information" that MSNBC had was false. CNN was playing it conservatively (at that time), and it resulted in me changing the channel.
We absolutely encourage news stations to report information that has not been substantially verified.
We don't need new gun control laws. We need better lunatic control laws. Tuscon, the bat man movie shooter, and now this horrific episode . . . Rampage shootings are almost exclusively perpetrated by the dangerously unbalanced.
But as a social order, we are so hung up on "stigmatizing the handicapped" that we refuse to throw these sickos in the booby hatch were they belong. Look hard at the nearly inconceivably horrifying carnage in Connecticut; that is the price we are paying because we are afraid of looking harsh.
Something interesting coming out today is that it took the police 20 minutes to respond.
Lot of discussion about the 2nd Amendment and its limits. Even though this guy had "assault weapons" this guy could have had a sword and done the same thing. This guy had 20 minutes and there was NOBODY there that could stop him. They were entirely dependent on a locked door.
I just watched the memorial services from Newtown and it was touching. I turned my thoughts to those precious young lives that was lost and thought how one could give an account of their lives. The thought I kept returning to was what accomplishments would be listed that each child had, and my thoughts went to what they might have achieved. Would one of them have been a great athlete that would awe the sports world with their talent? Would one of them been the scientist who made that great discovery that would make our world better? Would one of the little girls have been a leader of our nation, or the mother of a future President? Of course, we know that will not be the case because their lives were ended too early for their talents to ever be devolped, much less realized. So many ways the pain and suffering can be mentioned, and as for the murderer, my thoughts turned to what drove him to do this? Was he so tortured in his mind that he had no sense of the horror he was committing? Did others see this and yet the services that would have spared us this tragedy were not there or denied him? I don't know. What I do know is in this nation we are looking once more at useless and needless death but this time 20 of 26 were 10 years old or less. Where they in places that such violence would be expected? No they were at school, in a place I once was and a place I never dreamed of anything worse than the school bully trying to start a fight with me, but certainly never being subjected to such a scene as this. We can talk of our rights, of what we believe, and suggest different scenerios, but does anything change this was a place these children thought they could be safe and that society saw to it. We can do what do about this, but nothing will ever replace the innocence lost by this.
(12-16-2012 09:57 PM)randaddyminer Wrote: honestly, the only people in favor of guns are cowards, they need a gun to protect themselves.
Obviously you do not have a wife or girlfriend or small children unable to defend themselves from an attacker. And you also seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and your ability to defend yourself against other weapons and multiple people. Or you just simply do not care about the life of anyone you love.
reading the comments made after mine, I have to admit I am bothered. Not because of the views, but the fact that my message seemed lost and instead of anyone adding to, or agreeing with it, it went in the direction it did. I go outside to smoke because it keeps the smoke out of my computer and my living area, as well as causing the one I live with from smelling the smoke and experiencing any effects from it. While outside, I thought of these replies and thought of what I could say in response, but immediately I got angry with myself from letting it take my mind off the real meaning of my post. I wasn't going to say this but I guess I will. I was trained in law enforcement in the USAF. I once faced the Badder Meinhoff terrorist group to keep them from blowing up a C-5 which they were trying to climb the fence to blow up. They were armed not only with guns, but also explosives so the risk were high. We were highly trained to deal with it and as I watched them scale the fence I knew if I or one of the others with me, were to squeeze off a round too early it would be an international incident as well as deadly. We had to wait until they touched the ground inside the area before we could open fire, and yell HALT in the meantime. They got to the top of the fence and we had our M-16s ready to shoot. They looked at us and we looked at them, then at the last moment they jumped off the fence on the other side. Talking with the others I was with we all expressed the thought of shooting when they were at the top of the fence but our training was good enough we didn't. If not for that training we would have made a mistake that would have been a major incident, and even then we realized we almost did it wrong. To be in position to take a life is a horrible place to be and I can't imagine being in it without having very good training. I have other stories including my own twin sister's home invasion where the criminal tortured her, tied her up and left her bound in wire for 36 hours to die. Fortunately she was rescued. She had a gun and the home invader got to her gun, he told her he could blow her away but he wasn't going to make it that easy, he wanted her to die a slow and painful death. I hate I am telling this part because what I had hoped was we would instead focus on the horrible lost and pain, but I guess guns are more important than the lost lives.
(12-16-2012 09:07 PM)Topcard91 Wrote: Something interesting coming out today is that it took the police 20 minutes to respond.
Lot of discussion about the 2nd Amendment and its limits. Even though this guy had "assault weapons" this guy could have had a sword and done the same thing. This guy had 20 minutes and there was NOBODY there that could stop him. They were entirely dependent on a locked door.
Not really, but whatever makes you feel better.
China is having problems with stabbings. You know how many people are dying? Not many. That rampage a few days ago where a guy stabbed 25 people: 0 died.
Murder will never be stopped. No one, even at the left fringe on the gun issue, would contend that. It is about limiting. The Connecticut guy fired hundreds of rounds and had, what, 26 hits. You're going to tell me that if he had to reload a clip every five to ten shots that things wouldn't be better? Or the shooting in Colorado....if he's not spraying shots constantly.
I don't want the 2nd Amendment overturned. But there is no reason in hell that assault weapons should be legal. NONE. There is no reason that the guy in Colorado should have been able to purchase those kinds of weapons, that much ammo, and body armor that is better than the police has. Same goes for the VT shooter.
(12-16-2012 10:42 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote: reading the comments made after mine, I have to admit I am bothered. Not because of the views, but the fact that my message seemed lost and instead of anyone adding to, or agreeing with it, it went in the direction it did. I go outside to smoke because it keeps the smoke out of my computer and my living area, as well as causing the one I live with from smelling the smoke and experiencing any effects from it. While outside, I thought of these replies and thought of what I could say in response, but immediately I got angry with myself from letting it take my mind off the real meaning of my post. I wasn't going to say this but I guess I will. I was trained in law enforcement in the USAF. I once faced the Badder Meinhoff terrorist group to keep them from blowing up a C-5 which they were trying to climb the fence to blow up. They were armed not only with guns, but also explosives so the risk were high. We were highly trained to deal with it and as I watched them scale the fence I knew if I or one of the others with me, were to squeeze off a round too early it would be an international incident as well as deadly. We had to wait until they touched the ground inside the area before we could open fire, and yell HALT in the meantime. They got to the top of the fence and we had our M-16s ready to shoot. They looked at us and we looked at them, then at the last moment they jumped off the fence on the other side. Talking with the others I was with we all expressed the thought of shooting when they were at the top of the fence but our training was good enough we didn't. If not for that training we would have made a mistake that would have been a major incident, and even then we realized we almost did it wrong. To be in position to take a life is a horrible place to be and I can't imagine being in it without having very good training. I have other stories including my own twin sister's home invasion where the criminal tortured her, tied her up and left her bound in wire for 36 hours to die. Fortunately she was rescued. She had a gun and the home invader got to her gun, he told her he could blow her away but he wasn't going to make it that easy, he wanted her to die a slow and painful death. I hate I am telling this part because what I had hoped was we would instead focus on the horrible lost and pain, but I guess guns are more important than the lost lives.
You're right (Again). The focus of this thread should be on those lives that were lost and frankly, I failed to heed your recent advice. For that I apologize and of course, my thoughts go out to you and your family for the suffering you've had to endure.
The conversation took a turn from what it should have been focused on. Those of us who participated, I am sure, did not mean to be disrespectful... we're just human and at times our opinions get the best of us.
Can we just lock this thread?
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2012 12:34 AM by Ned Low.)
As a teacher, the killings hit home hard. I feel for all the families that are suffering because of what happened. I even questioned my faith as to why something like this can happen. Church today was good for me. We live in a broken world, since Adam and Eve. My personal savior Jesus Christ endored extreme pain, like that which the families in Connecticut have experinced. What we need to do is to pray for all those affected. We also need to go out into the world and through our actions show society that evil will never triumph over Good. Let this tradegy motivate all of us to act to improve our society.
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OT: Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School
