AndreWhere
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 02:55 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:31 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:21 PM)EagleProf Wrote: I don't think Southern Miss would "jump" at defecting. But I do think, after some assurances are made regarding stability, we would go. Even if the money and prestige are considered roughly the same, even if everyone in the country including ESPN pundits consider it horizontal at best, the truth is, our fans, our program, have a solid history with nBE schools that it doesn't have in the nCUSA. Southern Miss is one of the few schools who cares about history and tradition; who cares about friendships and alliances. This was our argument for forming CUSA. This was our argument for keeping other programs from leaving CUSA in recent years. But now that most of have, this will be our argument for joining them. In a sense, however weak it is, the move would be seen as a chance at returning to our tradition (Metro/Early CUSA). Hate to break it to La Tech and UNT, but I think I'm right.
Now, why should other the nBE want us to join them? Because we are a safe decision. We offer a commitment and history of success in athletics (basketball recently), not an indecent market (especially given tv ratings), and rival play for fans of current BE schools like ECU and UCF; we also offer stability given the desire of Cincy and UCONN to split and our history of being a loyal committed conference member (something you would think the BE is looking for at this point). Plus, who else is there? Western teams like UNLV and Fresno will stay put, especially when Boise and SDSU decide to go off and anchor an all sports MWC or something similar. Who else is there in the East? ODU? Charlotte? We may get passed up once, but not twice or three times, and without BSU or SDSU, the BE sits at 10.
Besides, ECU wants us in and they run the show in the Big East.
You're proposing a lateral move to join teams that didn't want to be in a conference with us. I would hope we would have more self-esteem than that.
^^^^THIS^^^^^
I don't think self esteem plays any role. Most of the presidents an ADs have behaved dispassionately and objectively.
And no, rejoining ECU, Memphis, et al. is not a lateral move. It's not even close.
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12-13-2012 03:15 PM |
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billyoregon
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
Big 5 = SEC, Pac-12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC
Gang of 5 = nBE, CUSA, MWC, Sunbelt, MAC
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12-13-2012 03:15 PM |
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Noodles
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:15 PM)AndreWhere Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:55 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:31 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:21 PM)EagleProf Wrote: I don't think Southern Miss would "jump" at defecting. But I do think, after some assurances are made regarding stability, we would go. Even if the money and prestige are considered roughly the same, even if everyone in the country including ESPN pundits consider it horizontal at best, the truth is, our fans, our program, have a solid history with nBE schools that it doesn't have in the nCUSA. Southern Miss is one of the few schools who cares about history and tradition; who cares about friendships and alliances. This was our argument for forming CUSA. This was our argument for keeping other programs from leaving CUSA in recent years. But now that most of have, this will be our argument for joining them. In a sense, however weak it is, the move would be seen as a chance at returning to our tradition (Metro/Early CUSA). Hate to break it to La Tech and UNT, but I think I'm right.
Now, why should other the nBE want us to join them? Because we are a safe decision. We offer a commitment and history of success in athletics (basketball recently), not an indecent market (especially given tv ratings), and rival play for fans of current BE schools like ECU and UCF; we also offer stability given the desire of Cincy and UCONN to split and our history of being a loyal committed conference member (something you would think the BE is looking for at this point). Plus, who else is there? Western teams like UNLV and Fresno will stay put, especially when Boise and SDSU decide to go off and anchor an all sports MWC or something similar. Who else is there in the East? ODU? Charlotte? We may get passed up once, but not twice or three times, and without BSU or SDSU, the BE sits at 10.
Besides, ECU wants us in and they run the show in the Big East.
You're proposing a lateral move to join teams that didn't want to be in a conference with us. I would hope we would have more self-esteem than that.
^^^^THIS^^^^^
I don't think self esteem plays any role. Most of the presidents an ADs have behaved dispassionately and objectively.
And no, rejoining ECU, Memphis, et al. is not a lateral move. It's not even close.
You're right, because they have no TV contract, bowls, or even a conference structure. No headquarters, no autobid.
All this is assuming the BE does in fact dissolve today, which I will believe when I see the proof.
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12-13-2012 03:17 PM |
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SgtGoldenEagle
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
I agree Southern Miss provides content unfortunately it also provides a small TV market. It is sad but true that TV market dictates more than athletic achievement. If you look at the record of Southern Mississippi you will find since 1935 USM has had only nine losing seasons, to long consecutive winning periods of winning seasons, one of 17 seasons another of 18 seasons. Southern Miss has had two coaches that are in the College football Hall of Fame, until Ellis Johnson every coach since 1930 has been at the school for more than one year and every coach except Ellis Johnson has won at least one ball game as head coach.
In today's world of college football athletic achievement doesn't bring in money like being able to be on TV. This is the culture that causes a conference to choose a program like Tulane to be chosen over USM. I assume that the conferences feel the money will build a better program and it just might, but at the expense of the school who has burned its way and thought the battles to build its name through successful endeavors.
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12-13-2012 03:18 PM |
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gdunn
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:15 PM)billyoregon Wrote: Big 5 = SEC, Pac-12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC
Gang of 5 = nBE, CUSA, MWC, Sunbelt, MAC
AH..
Got ya.
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12-13-2012 03:24 PM |
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EagleProf
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
Look, I'm not saying that Southern would/should join the nBE because its the nBE per se. I'm saying we should join THAT FAMILY OF PROGRAMS, because, well, its family. As far as the debate about who wants us and who doesn't. That is simple for me. There are family members I can't stand (Cincy; Loserville; Memphis; USF). There are family members I like (ECU, UCF). Then there are programs I'm indifferent towards. I'd rather be in a conference with programs that I have strong feelings about either way than in a conference with programs that inspire nothing but indifference in me. So, if Memphis hated us, screwed us, or whatever. I want to join their conference and whip them (like old times). But I don't care if we beat FIU or UTSA, and doubt I ever will. No history there. I want to be in a conference, any conference, where there is history (good and bad blood). I don't want to be in a conference whose members probably wouldn't inspire me to come to this message board, much less go watch them play.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2012 03:32 PM by EagleProf.)
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12-13-2012 03:29 PM |
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AndreWhere
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:17 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:15 PM)AndreWhere Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:55 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:31 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:21 PM)EagleProf Wrote: I don't think Southern Miss would "jump" at defecting. But I do think, after some assurances are made regarding stability, we would go. Even if the money and prestige are considered roughly the same, even if everyone in the country including ESPN pundits consider it horizontal at best, the truth is, our fans, our program, have a solid history with nBE schools that it doesn't have in the nCUSA. Southern Miss is one of the few schools who cares about history and tradition; who cares about friendships and alliances. This was our argument for forming CUSA. This was our argument for keeping other programs from leaving CUSA in recent years. But now that most of have, this will be our argument for joining them. In a sense, however weak it is, the move would be seen as a chance at returning to our tradition (Metro/Early CUSA). Hate to break it to La Tech and UNT, but I think I'm right.
Now, why should other the nBE want us to join them? Because we are a safe decision. We offer a commitment and history of success in athletics (basketball recently), not an indecent market (especially given tv ratings), and rival play for fans of current BE schools like ECU and UCF; we also offer stability given the desire of Cincy and UCONN to split and our history of being a loyal committed conference member (something you would think the BE is looking for at this point). Plus, who else is there? Western teams like UNLV and Fresno will stay put, especially when Boise and SDSU decide to go off and anchor an all sports MWC or something similar. Who else is there in the East? ODU? Charlotte? We may get passed up once, but not twice or three times, and without BSU or SDSU, the BE sits at 10.
Besides, ECU wants us in and they run the show in the Big East.
You're proposing a lateral move to join teams that didn't want to be in a conference with us. I would hope we would have more self-esteem than that.
^^^^THIS^^^^^
I don't think self esteem plays any role. Most of the presidents an ADs have behaved dispassionately and objectively.
And no, rejoining ECU, Memphis, et al. is not a lateral move. It's not even close.
You're right, because they have no TV contract, bowls, or even a conference structure. No headquarters, no autobid.
All this is assuming the BE does in fact dissolve today, which I will believe when I see the proof.
I don't believe there are really USM fans who want to stay. I think you're really an Ole Miss fan or an MSU fan. The kinds of bowls that CUSA will get aren't worth sticking around for. Over the medium to long run, ECU, UH, USM, SMU, Memphis, etc. will outdo UNT, ODU, FIU, etc. in every way... and I think you know that.
If you're really a USM fan, tell me one song our marching band played at games this season.
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12-13-2012 03:30 PM |
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Joe Rod
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 02:31 PM)Noodles Wrote: You're proposing a lateral move to join teams that didn't want to be in a conference with us. I would hope we would have more self-esteem than that.
Well, maybe you should let us win from time to time and we would want you to be our conference mate again.
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12-13-2012 03:33 PM |
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EagleProf
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
It's pretty simple really. Bowls and tv attention will never be drawn to a conference featuring games with no passion. In the nCUSA, that's what we are setting up. And even if bowls and tv attention did not follow passionate games featuring Southern Miss and her old foes, I'd rather be a part of that season, that atmosphere, that stadium, that message board discussion, than the ho-hum of playing either up-start teams or teams that we don't know personally.
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12-13-2012 03:35 PM |
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AndreWhere
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
Yo (12-13-2012 03:35 PM)EagleProf Wrote: It's pretty simple really. Bowls and tv attention will never be drawn to a conference featuring games with no passion. In the nCUSA, that's what we are setting up. And even if bowls and tv attention did not follow passionate games featuring Southern Miss and her old foes, I'd rather be a part of that season, that atmosphere, that stadium, that message board discussion, than the ho-hum of playing either up-start teams or teams that we don't know personally.
This is a very good analysis. What's at stake goes well beyond the 2013-2014 bowl tie-ins.
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12-13-2012 03:37 PM |
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Noodles
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:30 PM)AndreWhere Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:17 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:15 PM)AndreWhere Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:55 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote: (12-13-2012 02:31 PM)Noodles Wrote: You're proposing a lateral move to join teams that didn't want to be in a conference with us. I would hope we would have more self-esteem than that.
^^^^THIS^^^^^
I don't think self esteem plays any role. Most of the presidents an ADs have behaved dispassionately and objectively.
And no, rejoining ECU, Memphis, et al. is not a lateral move. It's not even close.
You're right, because they have no TV contract, bowls, or even a conference structure. No headquarters, no autobid.
All this is assuming the BE does in fact dissolve today, which I will believe when I see the proof.
I don't believe there are really USM fans who want to stay. I think you're really an Ole Miss fan or an MSU fan. The kinds of bowls that CUSA will get aren't worth sticking around for. Over the medium to long run, ECU, UH, USM, SMU, Memphis, etc. will outdo UNT, ODU, FIU, etc. in every way... and I think you know that.
If you're really a USM fan, tell me one song our marching band played at games this season.
Well, the Pride, of which I was a member in 1985, changed their HT show from "Party at the Rock" to "Sinatra" at the end of the season. Not that I owe you any proof of fanhood.
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12-13-2012 03:41 PM |
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EagleProf
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
Well seriously Noodles, can you see my point? If everything is horizontal or lateral or even a little worse in terms of bowl tie-ins, don't you want more passion as a fan than the indifference that will ensue in the nCUSA? ESPN may not care if Southern Miss plays ECU, UCF, Memphis, or UH instead of FIU, UTSA, MTSU, or North Texas. But I do. My tailgate tent will too.
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12-13-2012 03:47 PM |
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Noodles
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:47 PM)EagleProf Wrote: Well seriously Noodles, can you see my point? If everything is horizontal or lateral or even a little worse in terms of bowl tie-ins, don't you want more passion as a fan than the indifference that will ensue in the nCUSA? ESPN may not care if Southern Miss plays ECU, UCF, Memphis, or UH instead of FIU, UTSA, MTSU, or North Texas. But I do. My tailgate tent will too.
They DO NOT WANT you in their conference. Have a little pride, man.
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12-13-2012 03:48 PM |
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CurveItAround
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:35 PM)EagleProf Wrote: It's pretty simple really. Bowls and tv attention will never be drawn to a conference featuring games with no passion. In the nCUSA, that's what we are setting up. And even if bowls and tv attention did not follow passionate games featuring Southern Miss and her old foes, I'd rather be a part of that season, that atmosphere, that stadium, that message board discussion, than the ho-hum of playing either up-start teams or teams that we don't know personally.
I am pretty sure we have established what you are. Now, let's talk price...
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12-13-2012 03:49 PM |
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billyoregon
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:35 PM)EagleProf Wrote: It's pretty simple really. Bowls and tv attention will never be drawn to a conference featuring games with no passion. In the nCUSA, that's what we are setting up. And even if bowls and tv attention did not follow passionate games featuring Southern Miss and her old foes, I'd rather be a part of that season, that atmosphere, that stadium, that message board discussion, than the ho-hum of playing either up-start teams or teams that we don't know personally.
I agree with this. I think Tulane-to-Big East has brought this forgotten piece of reality to the forefront.
Markets full of potential viewers who aren't interested in watching the product aren't worth much
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12-13-2012 03:52 PM |
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EagleProf
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
I once urged CUSA teams to stay put, maybe work for a merger with the MWC, and not chase after tv dollars at the expense of pride, history, tradition, family, and rivalries. Didn't happen. But that same principle works just as well as a reason for joining up with old foes in this situation. I'm saying, once again, consider history and tradition in making conference decisions, not tv sets and money. Who is the whore?
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12-13-2012 03:54 PM |
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EagleProf
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
For a long time, Southern Miss fans along with ECU fans and others said that unless the Big 5 came calling, we should do all that we can to preserve old rivalries, regional identities, and historic relationships. Didn't happen, the merger idea fell through, and now we have this situation. So how would Southern Miss honor those values in this new circumstance? By staying put and trying to artificially manufacture interest with strangers and whoever happens to join nCUSA in the next few years, or locating themselves in an athletic conference that speaks to those very values? Call me what you want, if your school had any tradition to turn its back on, maybe you could appreciate what I'm talking about.
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12-13-2012 03:59 PM |
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AndreWhere
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 03:48 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:47 PM)EagleProf Wrote: Well seriously Noodles, can you see my point? If everything is horizontal or lateral or even a little worse in terms of bowl tie-ins, don't you want more passion as a fan than the indifference that will ensue in the nCUSA? ESPN may not care if Southern Miss plays ECU, UCF, Memphis, or UH instead of FIU, UTSA, MTSU, or North Texas. But I do. My tailgate tent will too.
They DO NOT WANT you in their conference. Have a little pride, man.
Those teams created a conference with USM. They want to be in a conference with us... maybe they won't sacrifice millions of dollars per year to be with us, but this notion that we should avoid realignment out of spite against teams that got moved up a few years (or days) before us is just ridiculous.
By your logic, we should turn down games against Ole Miss and MSU out of spite. But we don't...
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12-13-2012 04:01 PM |
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Noodles
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RE: Why Southern Miss would and should join the nBE
(12-13-2012 04:01 PM)AndreWhere Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:48 PM)Noodles Wrote: (12-13-2012 03:47 PM)EagleProf Wrote: Well seriously Noodles, can you see my point? If everything is horizontal or lateral or even a little worse in terms of bowl tie-ins, don't you want more passion as a fan than the indifference that will ensue in the nCUSA? ESPN may not care if Southern Miss plays ECU, UCF, Memphis, or UH instead of FIU, UTSA, MTSU, or North Texas. But I do. My tailgate tent will too.
They DO NOT WANT you in their conference. Have a little pride, man.
Those teams created a conference with USM. They want to be in a conference with us... maybe they won't sacrifice millions of dollars per year to be with us, but this notion that we should avoid realignment out of spite against teams that got moved up a few years (or days) before us is just ridiculous.
By your logic, we should turn down games against Ole Miss and MSU out of spite. But we don't...
By all means, go ahead and play Ole Miss without having a game scheduled. Join the BE without an invite. Hell, who knew it was so easy?
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12-13-2012 04:07 PM |
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