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Union violence and the networks ...
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 10:36 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Bottom line: Unless the conservative dude actually started throwing the punches first (highly doubtful when outnumbered 10000 to 1) or threw some highly personal insults (again, doubtful), there is no excuse for the goons to start swinging away. None. I'd say the same if a liberal counterprotestor got gang-jumped at Tea Party rally, although the risk of that happening is very small.

And when you condone these actions or, worse, openly fantasize about how the guy would've been literally killed a few decades ago, it makes you no better than the most bloodthirsty hawkish 'neocons' you rail against.
Well, if we are talking about the video of the Faux "reporter" getting hit, that is EXACTLY what I had heard happened AND it is supposedly on one of the Faux uncut videos(supposedly online somewhere but not given a address). Can't verify just saying, don't discount the possibility.
12-13-2012 11:26 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
If video surfaces showing the RTW guy being the first to push/punch, then yes, he should be rightfully condemned.

I'm honestly not holding my breath, and for all we know it's just Daily Kos kids or someone spinning away and manufacturing rumors. But if it happens to be true, I'm consistent and will hang the guy out to dry.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2012 11:32 AM by Motown Bronco.)
12-13-2012 11:31 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 11:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If video surfaces showing the RTW guy being the first to push/punch, then yes, he should be rightfully condemned.

I'm honestly not holding my breath, and for all we know it's just Daily Kos kids or someone spinning away and manufacturing rumors. But if it happens to be true, I'm consistent and will hang the guy out to dry.

Agreed, if the reporter actually threw a punch then those folks had every right to kick his ass. Don't see it though, I mean, look at the guy. Hulk Hogan he is not.
12-13-2012 11:36 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 11:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If video surfaces showing the RTW guy being the first to push/punch, then yes, he should be rightfully condemned.

I'm honestly not holding my breath, and for all we know it's just Daily Kos kids or someone spinning away and manufacturing rumors. But if it happens to be true, I'm consistent and will hang the guy out to dry.
I wouldn't count on seeing it either since it is a supposedly a Faux video. Once they realize it is out there, they will pull it and make sure it is never seen again.
12-13-2012 11:38 AM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 10:56 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:47 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Because I can see the end game here. Once you make it a choice a person can save 600 dollars in union dues and still let the union bargain for them.

Who says the non union worker will get the same deal as a union worker? It's possible he'll get less.
03-lmfao That is like something Torchy would say. Don't stoop to that level of stupidity. You are a little(and I mean a little) brighter than that.

Do you realize you're implying that, if a non union worker can get the same deal as a union worker, then unions are no longer needed?
12-13-2012 11:51 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 11:51 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:56 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:47 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Because I can see the end game here. Once you make it a choice a person can save 600 dollars in union dues and still let the union bargain for them.

Who says the non union worker will get the same deal as a union worker? It's possible he'll get less.
03-lmfao That is like something Torchy would say. Don't stoop to that level of stupidity. You are a little(and I mean a little) brighter than that.

Do you realize you're implying that, if a non union worker can get the same deal as a union worker, then unions are no longer needed?
Short term. What happens when the unions that are holding up the wages are gone? I will give you a hint: wages will freefall.
12-13-2012 01:03 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 01:03 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 11:51 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Do you realize you're implying that, if a non union worker can get the same deal as a union worker, then unions are no longer needed?
Short term. What happens when the unions that are holding up the wages are gone? I will give you a hint: wages will become what the market dictates.

Fixed it for you
12-13-2012 01:28 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 11:38 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 11:31 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If video surfaces showing the RTW guy being the first to push/punch, then yes, he should be rightfully condemned.

I'm honestly not holding my breath, and for all we know it's just Daily Kos kids or someone spinning away and manufacturing rumors. But if it happens to be true, I'm consistent and will hang the guy out to dry.
I wouldn't count on seeing it either since it is a supposedly a Faux video. Once they realize it is out there, they will pull it and make sure it is never seen again.

You don't know how the INTERNET works, do you. 03-lmfao
12-13-2012 02:10 PM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 01:03 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 11:51 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:56 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:47 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Because I can see the end game here. Once you make it a choice a person can save 600 dollars in union dues and still let the union bargain for them.

Who says the non union worker will get the same deal as a union worker? It's possible he'll get less.
03-lmfao That is like something Torchy would say. Don't stoop to that level of stupidity. You are a little(and I mean a little) brighter than that.

Do you realize you're implying that, if a non union worker can get the same deal as a union worker, then unions are no longer needed?
Short term. What happens when the unions that are holding up the wages are gone? I will give you a hint: wages will freefall.

How much should one get for bolting a car door to a car
12-13-2012 02:21 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 10:43 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Because I can see the end game here. Once you make it a choice a person can save 600 dollars in union dues and still let the union bargain for them. Too many people are short sighted and greedy.

It's short sighted and greedy to want the freedom to choose whether or not to join the union? Mach it's hilarious to me that you think the end of unions somehow means that all of a sudden employers are going to suddenly pay everyone minimum wage. When 93% of the private workforce isn't unionized, yet enjoys comparable wages based on cost of living, safe working conditions, benefits, etc. The 93% are all the evidence you need that unions aren't needed.

I would argue the ones who are short sighted and greedy are the ones who want unions to be powerful. Unions nearly destroyed the auto industry in this country, hurt the quality of education and sent many a company into bankruptcy. They served a purpose at one time, they don't do anything but hurt the economy, jobs and employers now.

It really ought to give you pause that you are basically saying acknowledging that giving people freedom hurts unions. You'd rather have strong unions at the expense of individual liberty.
12-13-2012 02:34 PM
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Cletus Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
Quote:[Image: WSJ_logo.gif]

OF THE WEB TODAY December 11, 2012
'There Will Be Blood'
Big Labor shows its ugly face in Lansing.

By JAMES TARANTO

As the Michigan House debated a right-to-work measure today, a member of that august body warned of--or perhaps threatened--violence. "We're going to pass something that will undo 100 years of labor relations and there will be blood, there will be repercussions," WWJ-AM quotes Rep. Doug Geiss, a Detroit-area Democrat, as saying. "We will re-live the battle of the overpass."

The station offers a refresher in labor history: "The battle of the overpass was a bloody fracas in 1937 between union organizers and Ford Motor Co. security guards. [United Auto Workers organizer] Walter Reuther was famously thrown down a flight of stairs and another union organizer was left with a broken back."

So far this time there are no reports of violence or threats by management (unless you count Geiss, who is after all supposed to represent taxpayers, as part of "management" vis-à-vis government employees). But union leaders have echoed the violent rhetoric. WWJ quotes Terry O'Sullivan of the Labor International Union of North America, as saying at a rally, in reference to elected officials who support the right to work: "We are going to take you on and take you out."

MLive.com, a Michigan news site, reports that union thugs "tore down a large tent maintained by American's [sic] For Prosperity Michigan, which reserved the space to support the right-to-work legislation":

"We had been contacted by that group that they had three or four people that were actually trapped underneath the tent," said Lt. Mike Shaw. "Two of them were in wheelchairs and there was also a propane tank in there. So we had to send troopers out, and naturally, the crowd was not too receptive."

Several protesters booed and heckled mounted troopers who responded to the incident, calling them scabs and refusing to allow them through the crowd.

Scott Hagerstrom, executive director of AFP-Michigan, said his group had already ceded its reserved spot on the Capitol steps when protesters began ripping out support wires holding up the tent.
"The [sic] couldn't engage in a civil debate, and it's very unfortunate," Hagestrom said as he stood atop the fallen remnants.

Lori Dougovito of Flint's WJRT-TV reports on the station's Facebook page that a thug "told me it wouldn't have fell [sic] if it was union made"--a quote that nicely encapsulates the protection-racket nature of contemporary organized labor.

Steven Crowder, a Fox News contributor, tweets that he "was punched in the face four times" during the attack and adds that he didn't fight back because "the mob would have literally killed me." Glenn Reynolds posts video of the incident and writes: "The video shows numerous union representatives engaging in violent, illegal conduct. Their faces are clearly identifiable. I hope they will be prosecuted, and sued." Indeed.

[Image: OB-VQ501_botwt1_G_20121211140622.jpg]
Unionized nurses protest in Lansing.

BuzzFeed.com reports that "President Barack Obama launched an assault Monday on Michigan's proposed 'right to work' legislation." Unlike his supporters in Michigan, however, the president did not launch a literal assault. Speaking at a Daimler plant in Redford, just north of Geiss's hometown of Taylor, Obama said: "These so-called 'right to work' laws, they don't have to do with economics; they have everything to do with politics." There is some truth to that: Coercively collected union dues are an important source of funding for Democratic candidates and causes.

Obama went on to laud Big Labor: "You only have to look to Michigan--where workers were instrumental in reviving the auto industry--to see how unions have helped build not just a stronger middle class but a stronger America." By all means, let's look. Here's a report from TheTruthAboutCars.com:

Two years ago, a group of Chrysler workers were caught . . . drinking and doobing [i.e., smoking marijuana] on their lunch break. Not just that, they were caught on camera by a local TV station. The video went viral, and Chrysler was forthwith associated with quality enhanced by booze and marijuana. 13 workers were fired. Yesterday, they got their jobs back, courtesy of Chrysler's contract with the UAW.

The workers followed a grievance procedure process outlined in the Collective Bargaining Agreement between Chrysler and the United Auto Workers. The matter went to arbitration. Two years later, an arbitrator decided in the workers' favor, citing "insufficient conclusive evidence to uphold the dismissals." Apparently, a video wasn't good enough.

Chrysler was owned by Daimler until 2007.

The unions arguably brought right-to-work on themselves. Michigan's Gov. Rick Snyder, a Republican who was elected in the wave of 2010, long resisted the measure, reports Tom Walsh of the Detroit Free Press:

Too divisive, he'd say. Why go to war with unions when there was a tax code to fix and a budget to balance to begin his reinvention of Michigan?

And what did Snyder's stance get him? Headaches, mostly. . . .

Public employee unions opposed Snyder's moves to put more teeth into emergency manager laws that would enable swifter action to rescue cities and school districts that bungled themselves into insolvency.

In Detroit, Mayor Dave Bing and a spineless City Council were stonewalled by employee unions at every turn, slow-walking needed reforms and cost-cutting while the city burned through cash at a frightening rate.

As a result, Snyder's patient attempt to help fix Detroit via consent agreement instead of imposing an emergency manager has failed.

To top it off, Snyder found himself having to fight off Proposal 2, the ill-advised November ballot attempt to stuff a bag of goodies for organized labor into the Michigan Constitution.

This is the third major state-level victory against Big Labor in the past two years, after Wisconsin's triumph over greedy government unions and Indiana's lower-profile right-to-work effort. "People always say this is a really tough battle, you can't win," Mark Mix of National Right to Work tells the Washington Examiner's Byron York. "Then one morning we woke up and guess what? We found out it wasn't nearly as strong as we thought." The violent rhetoric looks like a sign of weakness, not strength.

.
12-13-2012 03:25 PM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
If employers treated their employees fairly to begin with, there would be no need for Unions.
12-13-2012 03:41 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
If unions didn't force employers to rehire guys like this, the union would have less of a PR problem.

Quote:Two years ago, a group of Chrysler workers were caught . . . drinking and doobing [i.e., smoking marijuana] on their lunch break. Not just that, they were caught on camera by a local TV station. The video went viral, and Chrysler was forthwith associated with quality enhanced by booze and marijuana. 13 workers were fired. Yesterday, they got their jobs back, courtesy of Chrysler's contract with the UAW.

The workers followed a grievance procedure process outlined in the Collective Bargaining Agreement between Chrysler and the United Auto Workers. The matter went to arbitration. Two years later, an arbitrator decided in the workers' favor, citing "insufficient conclusive evidence to uphold the dismissals." Apparently, a video wasn't good enough.
12-13-2012 03:49 PM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 03:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If employers treated their employees fairly to begin with, there would be no need for Unions.

Do you have some good examples of this
12-13-2012 03:54 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 03:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If employers treated their employees fairly to begin with, there would be no need for Unions.

The Jungle and 1906 were a long time ago.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2012 04:01 PM by VA49er.)
12-13-2012 04:01 PM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 03:25 PM)Cletus Wrote:  OF THE WEB TODAY December 11, 2012
'There Will Be Blood'
Big Labor shows its ugly face in Lansing.


All over merely giving people the choice on whether to join a union or not. Unbelievable.
12-13-2012 04:03 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
[Image: OB-VQ501_botwt1_G_20121211140622.jpg]

I assume the statement here is that unionized nurses - wearing lefty red, of course - will be "silenced" with the passage of RTW.

How?

If anything, the only ones with tapes over their mouths, figuratively speaking, are those who enter a union shop and have no say in the matter.
12-13-2012 04:05 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
I tend to refrain from saying that unions should go away altogether. I honestly don't mind a good union that protects good workers and sticks up for them if they are truly "in the right", negotiates collectively with management on benefits, and is a watchdog that calls out possible abusive behavior by said management. If it was just this, that's fine.

But it's the corruption... the power-hungry... the radical leftwing bosses... the protecting of bad and lazy workers... the strongarm and sometimes violent tactics... These things are what give the unions the image they have today. And as bad as it is here, it's 10x worse in Europe.
12-13-2012 04:10 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 04:03 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 03:25 PM)Cletus Wrote:  OF THE WEB TODAY December 11, 2012
'There Will Be Blood'
Big Labor shows its ugly face in Lansing.


All over merely giving people the choice on whether to join a union or not. Unbelievable.

I'll be patiently waiting for Paul Krugman's NYT column lambasting such violent rhetoric and low level of discourse...

07-coffee3
12-13-2012 04:16 PM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Union violence and the networks ...
(12-13-2012 04:01 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 03:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If employers treated their employees fairly to begin with, there would be no need for Unions.

The Jungle and 1906 were a long time ago.

Perhaps

Maybe we need to get rid of Unions for a short while, let the employers slowly get rid of workers rights, then we can all go back to appreciating what Unions did for us so long ago.
12-13-2012 04:35 PM
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