The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(09-10-2019 12:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:26 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:07 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:45 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  There’s a reason you don’t see lesser programs buying better programs. There’s a reason you don’t see programs buy programs on their level. And it’s not even about on-field performance so much; UCF is legitimately better than at least 2/3rds of the P5, but none of their schools, not even Kansas, Wake Forest or Rutgers, would accept a buy game from them.

There is absolutely a message that gets sent, both at the fan and the institutional level, in a buy game. In the overwhelming majority of the cases, that message is “We are here, and you are down there.” I have no issues with associating with Liberty on the field or court, but I have serious concerns about establishing a relationship with them that has more in common with ODU’s relationship with UMES than one where they’re on equal footing.

Accepting buy games is a statement that we are not on their level. Fine if you’re doing it with Alabama and Clemson, more questionable if you’re doing it with Memphis and San Diego State, VERY questionable if you’re doing it with Texas State or Liberty.

Hell, Georgia State seems to be flashing the cash of late. Should we let them buy us?

It's likely more economic than status. There's very few G5 teams that could afford to buy other G5 games and none that it would make economic sense to do so. Liberty's the exception.

That’s the other thing: Is Liberty even buying anyone else in FBS?

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/liberty/

I know they’re doing some 2-for-1s to get ACC schools to Lynchburg but straight-up buys? They’re playing a bunch of CUSA teams but they appear to all be home-and-homes. Buffalo, Eastern Michigan and Ball State are home-and-homes. ULM and Georgia Southern are home-and-home. So are UMass and Coastal Carolina.

Maybe I’m misreading this, but it appears that the only schools that Liberty has bought or is buying are ODU and FCS schools. Nice company we’re keeping.

We shouldn’t need Liberty to buy us. We’re not JMU.

Or...Liberty wants us to play there so bad they are willing to pay 800k to make it happen.

An honor only given to us and *checks notes* Maine, Hampton, North Carolina A&T, Campbell, and Gardner-Webb.

Either Liberty has really divergent tastes or we're willing to prostrate ourselves in a way that, as far as I can tell, no other FBS school is willing to do.

Again, I have no issue with Liberty, at least so far as sharing a field or court with them goes. But this isn't how you express a relationship of equals.

Exactly. I understood it when we were able to get over $1million from them, but the $800k is a little embarrassing. We should only do home and home with LU. I might take $800k from Navy and that would be about the only G5 I would consider. Maybe Temple, Memphis, Cincy or UConn if they threw in a home and home basketball series.

(09-10-2019 12:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:26 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:07 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:45 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  There’s a reason you don’t see lesser programs buying better programs. There’s a reason you don’t see programs buy programs on their level. And it’s not even about on-field performance so much; UCF is legitimately better than at least 2/3rds of the P5, but none of their schools, not even Kansas, Wake Forest or Rutgers, would accept a buy game from them.

There is absolutely a message that gets sent, both at the fan and the institutional level, in a buy game. In the overwhelming majority of the cases, that message is “We are here, and you are down there.” I have no issues with associating with Liberty on the field or court, but I have serious concerns about establishing a relationship with them that has more in common with ODU’s relationship with UMES than one where they’re on equal footing.

Accepting buy games is a statement that we are not on their level. Fine if you’re doing it with Alabama and Clemson, more questionable if you’re doing it with Memphis and San Diego State, VERY questionable if you’re doing it with Texas State or Liberty.

Hell, Georgia State seems to be flashing the cash of late. Should we let them buy us?

It's likely more economic than status. There's very few G5 teams that could afford to buy other G5 games and none that it would make economic sense to do so. Liberty's the exception.

That’s the other thing: Is Liberty even buying anyone else in FBS?

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/liberty/

I know they’re doing some 2-for-1s to get ACC schools to Lynchburg but straight-up buys? They’re playing a bunch of CUSA teams but they appear to all be home-and-homes. Buffalo, Eastern Michigan and Ball State are home-and-homes. ULM and Georgia Southern are home-and-home. So are UMass and Coastal Carolina.

Maybe I’m misreading this, but it appears that the only schools that Liberty has bought or is buying are ODU and FCS schools. Nice company we’re keeping.

We shouldn’t need Liberty to buy us. We’re not JMU.

Or...Liberty wants us to play there so bad they are willing to pay 800k to make it happen.

An honor only given to us and *checks notes* Maine, Hampton, North Carolina A&T, Campbell, and Gardner-Webb.

Either Liberty has really divergent tastes or we're willing to prostrate ourselves in a way that, as far as I can tell, no other FBS school is willing to do.

Again, I have no issue with Liberty, at least so far as sharing a field or court with them goes. But this isn't how you express a relationship of equals.

Its kind of run its course, but I disagree. The "optics" mean nothing to anyone except fans that want to put some artificial tiers on programs. Taking a buy game isn't going to hurt us in anyway. Its not going to cause a coach or recruit to believe we are inferior to Liberty.

(09-10-2019 12:34 PM)Roy Munson Wrote:  This is meant with all kindness and respect to my ODU bretheren.

For those of you against taking the $800K, you forfeit the right to complain about our willingness to pay coaches, or assistants, practice facilities or stadium improvements.

Or, kindly suggest another way to make $800K for a bus trip away game because being in CUSA means not having the revenue opportunities afforded to others.

Take a buy game to... pffft, I dunno? NC St, Wake Forest, UNC, Maryland, South Carolina, Clemson, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Rutgers, and as a bonus to that $800K we don't have to sully ourselves by being associated with Liberty!

(09-10-2019 12:52 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 12:34 PM)Roy Munson Wrote:  This is meant with all kindness and respect to my ODU bretheren.

For those of you against taking the $800K, you forfeit the right to complain about our willingness to pay coaches, or assistants, practice facilities or stadium improvements.

Or, kindly suggest another way to make $800K for a bus trip away game because being in CUSA means not having the revenue opportunities afforded to others.

Take a buy game against a school that actually is higher on the food chain? One that can offer more money and more exposure and doesn't make ODU look like they're elevating a peer school to a superior position?

Not wanting to get bought by a contemporary school is not the same as not wanting to get bought by anyone. I get that buys are an inevitability for most G5s. I liked that Wilder was adamantly against them at the onset but yes, at some point you have to take that bodybag game to make up for the lacking TV contract. But buys against schools that have been in FBS for two seasons are a different matter entirely.

If JMU moves up, offers a buy and we disagree with it, do we also forfeit the right to complain about money ever?

My point is that the 800K as offered for an away bus trip (NO CHARTER) that fans can attend are all plusses to me. I dislike Liberty's whole "thing" but the money is better in our pocket than theirs. Playing at their place, to me, is not a declaration the we are contemporary programs. We're not getting bought- we're getting paid. When our team gets back on the bus- we owe nothing.

And yes, I'll go play JMU for $800K if they move up (crazy example but I get your point). We have bills to pay and projects to fund. Student fees are frozen/decreasing and CUSA is not going to help us.

(09-10-2019 01:39 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 12:34 PM)Roy Munson Wrote:  This is meant with all kindness and respect to my ODU bretheren.

For those of you against taking the $800K, you forfeit the right to complain about our willingness to pay coaches, or assistants, practice facilities or stadium improvements.

Or, kindly suggest another way to make $800K for a bus trip away game because being in CUSA means not having the revenue opportunities afforded to others.

Take a buy game to... pffft, I dunno? NC St, Wake Forest, UNC, Maryland, South Carolina, Clemson, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Rutgers, and as a bonus to that $800K we don't have to sully ourselves by being associated with Liberty!

We agree on this. I just don't know if these are options. I only know what gets made public. Take $800K to play either Liberty or Maryland....I take Maryland every time. Are they offering???

(09-10-2019 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:18 AM)odu09 Wrote:  $800k for a winnable game is a huge win. Set aside the politics, they are playing football. Plus, sounds like those who went last time enjoys themselves (results aside). This is a huge win for ODU considering Liberty is probably trying to home/home with us.

My issue isn’t with politics, it’s with optics. You offer the buy game down, not up. Going to Liberty to kick off their FBS existence is one thing. Going there for cash on the regular indicates a shift in the balance of power. ODU and Liberty already have a home-and-home in 2021 and 2022. They could have easily arranged a home-and-home that starts there in 2023 and ends at ODU in 2024 or later.

This is a money move. Here’s the important Wood quote in the press release:

Quote:It’s a difficult balance for us to play a competitive schedule and yet generate the revenue you need while balancing a non-conference schedule. You’ve got to be smart when these opportunities present themselves.

Liberty buying ODU like a Big South or MEAC program is a terrible precedent. It sends a message that ODU is already down to fourth in the Virginia FBS pecking order.

Maybe this is a unique circumstance too, but I don’t like the look of bending the knee to an FBS callup.

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.
Liberty U is independent and needs games. Most folks realize that they are paying people to play at their stadium because they have no conference affiliation.
We get 800K and have a good chance for a win.

(09-10-2019 01:55 PM)bigblueodu Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:18 AM)odu09 Wrote:  $800k for a winnable game is a huge win. Set aside the politics, they are playing football. Plus, sounds like those who went last time enjoys themselves (results aside). This is a huge win for ODU considering Liberty is probably trying to home/home with us.

My issue isn’t with politics, it’s with optics. You offer the buy game down, not up. Going to Liberty to kick off their FBS existence is one thing. Going there for cash on the regular indicates a shift in the balance of power. ODU and Liberty already have a home-and-home in 2021 and 2022. They could have easily arranged a home-and-home that starts there in 2023 and ends at ODU in 2024 or later.

This is a money move. Here’s the important Wood quote in the press release:

Quote:It’s a difficult balance for us to play a competitive schedule and yet generate the revenue you need while balancing a non-conference schedule. You’ve got to be smart when these opportunities present themselves.

Liberty buying ODU like a Big South or MEAC program is a terrible precedent. It sends a message that ODU is already down to fourth in the Virginia FBS pecking order.

Maybe this is a unique circumstance too, but I don’t like the look of bending the knee to an FBS callup.

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.
Liberty U is independent and needs games. Most folks realize that they are paying people to play at their stadium because they have no conference affiliation.
We get 800K and have a good chance for a win.

Great deal as long as we win. How many coaches salaries does that $800K buy? I stand by let them beg to play us. They are the one with the pork chop around their neck to get the lion to play with them

(09-10-2019 01:20 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 12:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:26 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 11:07 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  It's likely more economic than status. There's very few G5 teams that could afford to buy other G5 games and none that it would make economic sense to do so. Liberty's the exception.

That’s the other thing: Is Liberty even buying anyone else in FBS?

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/liberty/

I know they’re doing some 2-for-1s to get ACC schools to Lynchburg but straight-up buys? They’re playing a bunch of CUSA teams but they appear to all be home-and-homes. Buffalo, Eastern Michigan and Ball State are home-and-homes. ULM and Georgia Southern are home-and-home. So are UMass and Coastal Carolina.

Maybe I’m misreading this, but it appears that the only schools that Liberty has bought or is buying are ODU and FCS schools. Nice company we’re keeping.

We shouldn’t need Liberty to buy us. We’re not JMU.

Or...Liberty wants us to play there so bad they are willing to pay 800k to make it happen.

An honor only given to us and *checks notes* Maine, Hampton, North Carolina A&T, Campbell, and Gardner-Webb.

Either Liberty has really divergent tastes or we're willing to prostrate ourselves in a way that, as far as I can tell, no other FBS school is willing to do.

Again, I have no issue with Liberty, at least so far as sharing a field or court with them goes. But this isn't how you express a relationship of equals.

Its kind of run its course, but I disagree. The "optics" mean nothing to anyone except fans that want to put some artificial tiers on programs. Taking a buy game isn't going to hurt us in anyway. Its not going to cause a coach or recruit to believe we are inferior to Liberty.

Something many fans do.

(09-10-2019 01:55 PM)bigblueodu Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:18 AM)odu09 Wrote:  $800k for a winnable game is a huge win. Set aside the politics, they are playing football. Plus, sounds like those who went last time enjoys themselves (results aside). This is a huge win for ODU considering Liberty is probably trying to home/home with us.

My issue isn’t with politics, it’s with optics. You offer the buy game down, not up. Going to Liberty to kick off their FBS existence is one thing. Going there for cash on the regular indicates a shift in the balance of power. ODU and Liberty already have a home-and-home in 2021 and 2022. They could have easily arranged a home-and-home that starts there in 2023 and ends at ODU in 2024 or later.

This is a money move. Here’s the important Wood quote in the press release:

Quote:It’s a difficult balance for us to play a competitive schedule and yet generate the revenue you need while balancing a non-conference schedule. You’ve got to be smart when these opportunities present themselves.

Liberty buying ODU like a Big South or MEAC program is a terrible precedent. It sends a message that ODU is already down to fourth in the Virginia FBS pecking order.

Maybe this is a unique circumstance too, but I don’t like the look of bending the knee to an FBS callup.

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.
Liberty U is independent and needs games. Most folks realize that they are paying people to play at their stadium because they have no conference affiliation.
We get 800K and have a good chance for a win.

But that's just it, they're not really paying teams for bodybag games. ULM's budget can be covered by Nick Saban's swear jar, but they're playing a home-and-home with Liberty. With the exception of FCS games and the ODU game in 2023, everything's a home-and-home or a buy game going the other way. They're not that desperate, or at least they're not playing it that way.

As a rule, G5s don't buy other G5s. That Liberty's doing it here makes me wary.

Frankly I'm not all that comfortable with several ODU staffs attitude toward Liberty. BW and Harry both seem way to chummy.

The only "optics" that I'm concerned about are 52-10. That was flatout embarrassing, payday not withstanding.

(09-10-2019 02:30 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Frankly I'm not all that comfortable with several ODU staffs attitude toward Liberty. BW and Harry both seem way to chummy.

Why is it a problem is they get along with the Liberty folks? I would bet Harry gets along with pretty much everyone. Coaches are like a fraternity, they stick together and generally like each other

Yall guys aren't going to like the new sponsorship for the new NEZ, *Fan the Flames Zone! sponsored by LU ONLINE or the Knowledge Aflame parking garage for the red garage.

https://www.richmond.com/sports/college/...5e935.html

(09-10-2019 10:14 AM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:11 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

Gross. If we are going to play a pay check game fine. Just stop this nonsense with Liberty.

Why is everyone complaining about this. They are an FBS program that whipped our ass 52-10 the last time we played them. They completely embarrassed us. So now they are playing us again and paying us to come there so they can beat our tails again. Until we beat them we need to shut up about optics, us being equal or even better than them. They have MUCH higher aspirations than ODU and have the money to get there. What is embarrassing is our fans thinking we should be above taking this game and the money. Get real !!!!

(09-10-2019 04:25 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:14 AM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:11 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

Gross. If we are going to play a pay check game fine. Just stop this nonsense with Liberty.

Why is everyone complaining about this. They are an FBS program that whipped our ass 52-10 the last time we played them. They completely embarrassed us. So now they are playing us again and paying us to come there so they can beat our tails again. Until we beat them we need to shut up about optics, us being equal or even better than them. They have MUCH higher aspirations than ODU and have the money to get there. What is embarrassing is our fans thinking we should be above taking this game and the money. Get real !!!!

If thats true, then the problem lies with ODU. How in the world did it get to the point where Liberty has higher aspirations than Old Dominion? (if true) The administration should be embarrassed if thats the case. The state of Virginia should be embarrassed as well. Liberty was literally on the verge of bankruptcy right before Jerry passed.

For now, I believe the series is tied 1-1. We beat them, they beat us (yes, badly last time). I would certainly hope that ODU would win more against Liberty than lose in the long run. If our aspirations don't run higher than at least being an equal to Liberty (which CUSA literally turned away) then perhaps we shouldn't be FBS.

And in general, ODU should be above taking a buy game to another G5. To me this is the equivalent of Longwood paying ODU to come play at their place. Which I would hope we wouldn't do either. Would UVA come play ODU if we paid them for a one off buy game? I doubt it.

(09-10-2019 04:42 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 04:25 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:14 AM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(09-10-2019 10:11 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  

Gross. If we are going to play a pay check game fine. Just stop this nonsense with Liberty.

Why is everyone complaining about this. They are an FBS program that whipped our ass 52-10 the last time we played them. They completely embarrassed us. So now they are playing us again and paying us to come there so they can beat our tails again. Until we beat them we need to shut up about optics, us being equal or even better than them. They have MUCH higher aspirations than ODU and have the money to get there. What is embarrassing is our fans thinking we should be above taking this game and the money. Get real !!!!

If thats true, then the problem lies with ODU. How in the world did it get to the point where Liberty has higher aspirations than Old Dominion? (if true) The administration should be embarrassed if thats the case. The state of Virginia should be embarrassed as well. Liberty was literally on the verge of bankruptcy right before Jerry passed.

For now, I believe the series is tied 1-1. We beat them, they beat us (yes, badly last time). I would certainly hope that ODU would win more against Liberty than lose in the long run. If our aspirations don't run higher than at least being an equal to Liberty (which CUSA literally turned away) then perhaps we shouldn't be FBS.



And in general, ODU should be above taking a buy game to another G5. To me this is the equivalent of Longwood paying ODU to come play at their place. Which I would hope we wouldn't do either. Would UVA come play ODU if we paid them for a one off buy game? I doubt it.

They are an FBS program that is willing to pay us to play them at their place. Take the money....unless all these proud alum want to cough up 800k and go up there and beat them so badly they won’t offer this again. Until then they and am Independent that wants to achieve their stated goal of being the BYU of the East !!! What is our goal or aspirations? Finally...to say we are 1-1 against them is true but...they have already passed us at the FBS level and are beating us for recruits.

Liberty is flush with money. They aspire to be to evangelicals what Notre Dame is to Catholics and Brigham Young is to Mormons.

(09-10-2019 05:04 PM)75Monarch Wrote:  Liberty is flush with money. They aspire to be to evangelicals what Notre Dame is to Catholics and Brigham Young is to Mormons.

Exactly...take their money go up there and beat their ass! Until then we have no right to say we should be above taking anything from them. By 2023 they are likely going to be growing faster.

(09-10-2019 05:04 PM)75Monarch Wrote:  Liberty is flush with money. They aspire to be to evangelicals what Notre Dame is to Catholics and Brigham Young is to Mormons.

And what is it ODU aspires to be? I know when I was considering the school it was a stated aspiration to be an academic peer of Virginia Tech in eastern VA. I know BW himself stated (as an FCS program) the goal was to be the number 3 team in state every year. And that was before we made the jump to FBS. If our goal isn't to win CUSA every year, and at least try to be the best program in the state (I know, hard to do with VT and now UVA) then we shouldn't be FBS. I'd love to hear from someone at ODU about what the school's aspirations truly are, both academically and athletically. Liberty wants to be Notre Dame for Evangelicals, VCU never wants to be called mid-major again, GMU wants to be a top tier business and law school, what does ODU want to be (other than cheap and diverse?)? Im sick of seeing school pass us from behind.