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OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher [LOCKED ARCHIVAL COPY. DO NOT TOUCH. -GTS]
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FanViaThresherSports09 Offline
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Post: #1
OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher [LOCKED ARCHIVAL COPY. DO NOT TOUCH. -GTS]
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2012 03:33 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
11-30-2012 12:21 PM
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mrbig Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
I saw that as well, pretty unfortuante story. Hopefully it was an isolated incident of Rice handling a tough situation poorly, rather than something that is more systematic. If nothing else, hopefully it will be a wake-up call to folks on campus for how to deal with these kind of situations better in the future.
11-30-2012 12:24 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
This isn't an isolated situation. I know of numerous times this is happened. IMO, Ostdiek needs to go or at least not be put in charge of departments that he has no knowledge in. He is a judicial guy but is charge of Counseling Center, Wellness Center, and Study Abroad (just to name a few). He has basically turned back what the Wellness Center had become when they moved into the building (forcing them to eliminate services, taking away these services and turning them into counseling center offices, etc). The the way they dealt with the firing of the nutritionist was also bad. In addition, students have gone to him to get him to recognize that sexual assault occurs, even at Rice. And he won't have any of it. He doesn't find it a priority and believes in "victim blaming". In addition, from what I hear, Rice is not compliant with Title IX, and something may come up with the Houston Area Women's Center dealing with this.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2012 01:47 PM by dragon2owl.)
11-30-2012 01:46 PM
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
It DOES sound like it was handled VERY poorly by certain individuals.

I struggle a bit with certain other aspects because they seem to be systemic, and not merely to Rice, rather than specific... i.e. the fact that RUPD can't protect her off campus... which makes sense but sounds like the protective order was pretty limited, otherwise HPD could have helped... which isn't the fault of RUPD or Rice. In the grander scheme, it is difficult to keep someone from FEELING intimidated, and the law often requires proving INTENT (can't do anything until he does). As bad as it sounds, I don't have any problem with the counselors looking for self abuse... not as an alternative explanation to the alleged abuse that she suffered, but as a RESULT of the alleged abuse. I understand she may have felt differently about the "why", which imo shows that they didn't explain it to her very well or make her feel okay about it. That's a tough one for me... when you are genuinely concerned, you ask embarassing and sometimes accusatory things... like are you drinking more or hurting yourself, knowing that if you say no, that doesn't mean you aren't.... It's all coping mechanisms.

I wish the young lady, and the young man, for that matter, peace going forward... and hopefully we can use this failure to make things better
11-30-2012 02:16 PM
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cr11owl Online
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(11-30-2012 01:46 PM)dragon2owl Wrote:  This isn't an isolated situation. I know of numerous times this is happened. IMO, Ostdiek needs to go or at least not be put in charge of departments that he has no knowledge in. He is a judicial guy but is charge of Counseling Center, Wellness Center, and Study Abroad (just to name a few). He has basically turned back what the Wellness Center had become when they moved into the building (forcing them to eliminate services, taking away these services and turning them into counseling center offices, etc). The the way they dealt with the firing of the nutritionist was also bad. In addition, students have gone to him to get him to recognize that sexual assault occurs, even at Rice. And he won't have any of it. He doesn't find it a priority and believes in "victim blaming". In addition, from what I hear, Rice is not compliant with Title IX, and something may come up with the Houston Area Women's Center dealing with this.

I know for a fact that is incorrect from a couple sources. But I agree with the post in general and in my dealings with him I feel like he is in way over his head with the position he currently occupies at Rice and I would be glad to see him go.
11-30-2012 02:52 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
Re: the Thresher article - don't believe everything you may read, especially in an "article" with no input from those referenced within.
11-30-2012 02:57 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(11-30-2012 02:52 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(11-30-2012 01:46 PM)dragon2owl Wrote:  This isn't an isolated situation. I know of numerous times this is happened. IMO, Ostdiek needs to go or at least not be put in charge of departments that he has no knowledge in. He is a judicial guy but is charge of Counseling Center, Wellness Center, and Study Abroad (just to name a few). He has basically turned back what the Wellness Center had become when they moved into the building (forcing them to eliminate services, taking away these services and turning them into counseling center offices, etc). The the way they dealt with the firing of the nutritionist was also bad. In addition, students have gone to him to get him to recognize that sexual assault occurs, even at Rice. And he won't have any of it. He doesn't find it a priority and believes in "victim blaming". In addition, from what I hear, Rice is not compliant with Title IX, and something may come up with the Houston Area Women's Center dealing with this.

I know for a fact that is incorrect from a couple sources. But I agree with the post in general and in my dealings with him I feel like he is in way over his head with the position he currently occupies at Rice and I would be glad to see him go.

Maybe "any of it" isn't the correct way to say it...but I know numerous of friends/staff who have tried to implement educational efforts dealing with sexual assault only for him to turn it down. I know friends who have gone to him with similar situations only to give up because he would not listen to them.
11-30-2012 02:59 PM
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Ranger Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
We just heard one side, but if there is any merit to her argument, this is pathetic and some thing is out of whack and, as with the athletic department, must be fixed immediately. And not refunding the tuition (if there is merit to the complaint) borders on criminally greedy.

This is further troublesome because, if there is any merit to the complaint (and again I said if), then it is yet another section of the university that is broken, and makes one wonder whether the poor management and leadership are more widespread that many on the board had previously thought.
11-30-2012 04:35 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
The Chronicle has contacted the HAWC about the situation and the fact that HAWC has been trying for a few years to train staff dealing with these incidents. In addition, I hear a protest is planned for tomorrow (not sure about any of these details).
11-30-2012 07:07 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
11-30-2012 08:25 PM
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jwn Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
Having graduated in 2008, I don't know anything about the specifics of this case. I will say that when I was dealing with a trying time in my life during my junior year (nothing as bad as the alleged sexual abuse by the author of the article, but serious nonetheless) the Rice Counseling Center was very supportive. They also, unbeknownst to me at the time, spoke with some friends of mine, who kept an eye on me and watched to make sure I was doing OK. Perhaps things have changed, and the nature of the situations are different. But what was written in the article about Rice Counseling doesn't match with my own experience.
11-30-2012 09:33 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #12
RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
What is said of Dean Hutchinson doesn't match any experience I have had or heard of. I simply do not see him (or Rice) acting in a brazen, careless manner as portrayed.

Hope the best for the author of the piece. There is likely far more to the story, however.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2012 10:24 PM by Antarius.)
11-30-2012 10:24 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
Just a small update about the Chronicle article about HAWC and the incident. Rice intervened and it no longer is going to be written.
12-01-2012 01:13 AM
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dragon2owl Offline
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12-01-2012 01:40 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(11-30-2012 04:35 PM)Ranger Wrote:  We just heard one side, but if there is any merit to her argument, this is pathetic and some thing is out of whack and, as with the athletic department, must be fixed immediately. And not refunding the tuition (if there is merit to the complaint) borders on criminally greedy.

The registrar has a calendar with dates corresponding to tuition reimbursement percentages.

http://registrar.rice.edu/calendars/spring13/

For example, March 15th 2013 is the last day for a 10% reimbursement. Past this date, none is given.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 01:58 PM by Antarius.)
12-01-2012 01:57 PM
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Ranger Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(12-01-2012 01:57 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(11-30-2012 04:35 PM)Ranger Wrote:  We just heard one side, but if there is any merit to her argument, this is pathetic and some thing is out of whack and, as with the athletic department, must be fixed immediately. And not refunding the tuition (if there is merit to the complaint) borders on criminally greedy.

The registrar has a calendar with dates corresponding to tuition reimbursement percentages.

http://registrar.rice.edu/calendars/spring13/

For example, March 15th 2013 is the last day for a 10% reimbursement. Past this date, none is given.

She is alleging that she was kicked out of the school despite no wrong doing on her part. If that is correct, she should have been given her tuition back.

This is real simple. People seem to miss this all the time. The appropriate test is: What would you think if it had happened to you or one of your loved ones.

If I kick you out of school for no wrongdoing on your part, common decency demands that I not keep your money, regardless of what bureaucratic deadlines I have set.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 02:04 PM by Ranger.)
12-01-2012 02:04 PM
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
This is very disturbing.

There seem to be a number of things at play here, not the least of which is that Rice wants to avoid having a student commit suicide while enrolled.

Given the context of all of this, it seems there is a clear conflict of interest in the Rice counseling offices, where they are not acting in the students' best interest.
12-01-2012 02:29 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(12-01-2012 02:29 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Rice counseling offices, where they are not acting in the students' best interest.

Of course not -- they act foremost in the university's interest, just as an HR department looks out for the company first, not the employee.

When you think about it, it would be irrational to expect otherwise. But of course, people generally are not encouraged to think about that.
12-01-2012 02:33 PM
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
(12-01-2012 01:40 PM)dragon2owl Wrote:  http://ithappenshererice.tumblr.com/

I'm going to reserve judgement on almost all of this, as there are several sides to every story.

I will note that on the page referenced above, Kate Noonan is mentioned as being a party that pushed for the removal of a certain student. Ms. Noonan is one of the most decent and sober people that I know at Rice, and I have a very hard time believing that she would ask for a student to be placed on leave without just cause.

I will also mention that there are plenty of students at Rice that think that rose petals fall wherever they walk, and that their excrement does not exude a malodorous air. That's all from my end.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2012 02:47 PM by Wiessman.)
12-01-2012 02:42 PM
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RE: OT - Bad Press... in the Thresher
I would encourage all to reserve judgement until the full story comes out. One side does not make an objective analysis.
12-01-2012 02:46 PM
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