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Oh Orly
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 05:22 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and a D goes the same way too smn.........

If there was a R next to his name some reporter would have gotten ahold of them by now.
12-03-2012 07:07 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 05:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  FWIW, This site says no president has

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_pr...ranscripts

To me...it's mostly irrelevant to who gets elected. We have a pretty extensive interview process to determine our presidents, so their college grades are really not important. Every job I have ever gotten hired me because of my experience and performance in the interview process.

There is no doubt that Obama attended the colleges he said he did...there's ample evidence to all of them. And since there is no requirement for him to release them, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it regardless of the political affiliation of the candidate.

If there was an R next to his name you'd say otherwise.

You're clueless...and likely didn't even read the last line I posted.

And feel free to point out all the threads where I called for Mitt's records....................

I'm not, I did, and Mitt was never president.
12-03-2012 07:09 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Oh Orly
I have more of a right to see a sitting presidents legal credentials than I do a presidential candidates tax info..
12-03-2012 07:14 PM
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OUGwave Offline
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Post: #24
Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 06:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 06:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:14 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What we ought to have is a basic set of required disclosures. We're hiring for the most powerful position in the world, I think we're entitled to more information than for any job that you could get hired for, Tom.

I've said 5 years of tax returns, all college records, all job/employment records, all military records, all passport and visa history, as a general idea. Others might have slightly different takes. Those are mostly things that I have had employers ask for. But make it a statutory requirement. And if anyone wants to claim privacy, well, nobody is forcing him or her to run for president.

And I do think it was particularly disingenuous for the democrats to be attacking Romney for not providing more years of tax returns while Obama is clearly stonewalling on information in his case that is useful.

How are 30-year old college transcripts useful, or the same as tax returns from 3 years ago?

And I tend to agree with blanket requirement - but there would have to be a constitutional amendment for that.

As a tax practitioner for 30+ years, I have looked at a lot of tax returns and I really don't see how you'd get much insight about an individual from his/her tax returns. They're pretty boring and without some explanation there's way more potential for misinformation. Reading a capstone writing assignment would almost certainly be far more insightful regarding a person's philosophy and character than any tax return. I don't know that raw transcripts would provide more insight than raw tax returns, but other parts of the academic paper trail would.

The average person's tax returns say little to nothing interesting about them. From what we knew of Mitt's 2010 returns, there was some pretty exotic stuff on there that wasn't in his FEC disclosures (wasn't required to be). Democrats wanted them released because they would produce opposition research that would feed an existing narrative of Romney as a plutocrat.

The thinking on the transcripts was probably similar. At the time Obama was pursuing a liberal arts degree at Occidental and Columbia, critical theory was very much en vogue in that discipline, in particular political theory and philosophy was moving away from the 'Western Cannon' of Plato and Locke and embracing Franz Fanon, Michel Foucault, radical feminists, and others who might be considered radical by people who haven't been exposed to the questions these texts raise. Some of his classes would seem pretty exotic to the average non-liberal arts major -- I know, because I took many of them. Classes like gender and international politics; contemporary African American political thought; Power and Ethnicity in Latin American Politics, yada yada, etc.

I have very little doubt that the folks who started the "Release the transcripts" cry were never actually interested in his grades, but being able to do opposition research on the books on his syllabi, his professor's writings, and any term papers he may have on file -- with the goal of fitting this into the wider narrative of how he is "not one of us" at best and a "Kenyan anti-colonialist" at worst.

This shows a real misunderstanding of the way these courses work. They're meant to make sure students are asking key questions, not necessarily claiming to answer them. I'm not a Marxist, (in fact I have a Masters in economics and believe in capitalism with free markets and regulations to control externalities and market failure). But I consider it really valuable to have read books by Marxist political and economic thinkers. If someone looked at my college transcripts and writings with an eye towards interpreting my current world view -- even my worldview at the time -- they'd have come away with more signal than noise. I actually went through the most conservative phase of my life in college and right after, but my transcripts wouldn't give one that impression.

At this point, he's been elected twice. There are important questions facing the country. It's time to work together on solutions and stop trying to somehow invalidate the 2008 election.
12-03-2012 07:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 07:50 PM)OUGwave Wrote:  At this point, he's been elected twice. There are important questions facing the country. It's time to work together on solutions and stop trying to somehow invalidate the 2008 election.

I agree that the left's interest in Mitt's tax returns and the right's interest in Obama's university records were both motivated by gotcha political motives.

So what?

We are hiring someone for the most powerful position in the world. We can't know too much about them. If Mitt's investment income or Obama's term papers raise issues, well they know about it and they can decide how to respond. We deserve to see it all. Maybe if the details had been known they would both have had issues that they couldn't overcome and the choice would have ended up between two different people. I have a hard time finding anything wrong with that.

As for working together on solutions, it takes two sides to do that. What do you think each side should concede to get a deal done?
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2012 01:20 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
12-04-2012 01:14 AM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Oh Orly
(12-04-2012 01:14 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 07:50 PM)OUGwave Wrote:  At this point, he's been elected twice. There are important questions facing the country. It's time to work together on solutions and stop trying to somehow invalidate the 2008 election.

I agree that the left's interest in Mitt's tax returns and the right's interest in Obama's university records were both motivated by gotcha political motives.

So what?

We are hiring someone for the most powerful position in the world. We can't know too much about them. If Mitt's investment income or Obama's term papers raise issues, well they know about it and they can decide how to respond. We deserve to see it all. Maybe if the details had been known they would both have had issues that they couldn't overcome and the choice would have ended up between two different people. I have a hard time finding anything wrong with that.

As for working together on solutions, it takes two sides to do that. What do you think each side should concede to get a deal done?

I think they need to concede that 'this is beyond partisan politics, and we need to look at how we can best do that'. Crazy, I know, but it's possible. Maybe have Gingirch/Clinton coach their sides?
12-04-2012 11:10 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Oh Orly
(12-04-2012 11:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(12-04-2012 01:14 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 07:50 PM)OUGwave Wrote:  At this point, he's been elected twice. There are important questions facing the country. It's time to work together on solutions and stop trying to somehow invalidate the 2008 election.
I agree that the left's interest in Mitt's tax returns and the right's interest in Obama's university records were both motivated by gotcha political motives.
So what?
We are hiring someone for the most powerful position in the world. We can't know too much about them. If Mitt's investment income or Obama's term papers raise issues, well they know about it and they can decide how to respond. We deserve to see it all. Maybe if the details had been known they would both have had issues that they couldn't overcome and the choice would have ended up between two different people. I have a hard time finding anything wrong with that.
As for working together on solutions, it takes two sides to do that. What do you think each side should concede to get a deal done?
I think they need to concede that 'this is beyond partisan politics, and we need to look at how we can best do that'. Crazy, I know, but it's possible. Maybe have Gingirch/Clinton coach their sides?

Agree that they need to, but don't see much hope of that with this cast of characters.
12-05-2012 05:35 AM
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Mr. Peanut Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 04:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  FWIW, This site says no president has

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_pr...ranscripts

To me...it's mostly irrelevant to who gets elected. We have a pretty extensive interview process to determine our presidents, so their college grades are really not important. Every job I have ever gotten hired me because of my experience and performance in the interview process.

There is no doubt that Obama attended the colleges he said he did...there's ample evidence to all of them. And since there is no requirement for him to release them, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it regardless of the political affiliation of the candidate.

If there was an R next to his name you'd say otherwise.
That's just silly. I've never been interested in anyones birth certificate or transcripts (you would have to be borderline mentally ill to even breach the subject)
12-05-2012 06:48 AM
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dcCid Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Oh Orly
(12-05-2012 06:48 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 04:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  FWIW, This site says no president has

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_pr...ranscripts

To me...it's mostly irrelevant to who gets elected. We have a pretty extensive interview process to determine our presidents, so their college grades are really not important. Every job I have ever gotten hired me because of my experience and performance in the interview process.

There is no doubt that Obama attended the colleges he said he did...there's ample evidence to all of them. And since there is no requirement for him to release them, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it regardless of the political affiliation of the candidate.

If there was an R next to his name you'd say otherwise.
That's just silly. I've never been interested in anyones birth certificate or transcripts (you would have to be borderline mentally ill to even breach the subject)

Same here, transcripts would have been a long time ago and not everyone take test well. Transcripts also do not reflect experience, street smarts, or common sense.

Tax returns do provide a tad more information, and are more recent. But they may not be accurate. The question on Romney was if he used the 2009 tax amnesty to bring home some foreign cash holdings.
12-05-2012 08:03 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Oh Orly
(12-03-2012 07:14 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I have more of a right to see a sitting presidents legal credentials than I do a presidential candidates tax info..

No...actually...you have the same right to see both...NONE.
12-05-2012 09:55 AM
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