(11-23-2020 06:59 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 03:11 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  No, some off the wall poster by the name of FBS Dave thinks so and a couple of guys who bleed purple but are delusional about scheduling realities in the current landscape.

Most reasonable people understand that becoming an independent isn’t a sensible thing for JMU to do.

Exactly! Just look at Liberty. They suck and they are finding it impossible to schedule decent competition.

And, don't give me the "Liberty is rich and we are broke" crap! We are not broke, and how many Dukes fans would chip in a lot more dough if we were FBS?

I am not going to argue as I know you and Hazed are dead set in your opinion. I respect your right to have one. Trying to convince you otherwise is like trying to convince a liberal that a conservative is right. It just isn’t going to happen.

I feel the solution is for us to move on from the Indy discussion because we are not changing how either of us feel. It is the ole agree to disagree thing.

Let’s assume that the D1 AD I am friends with is right about the ASUNs aspirations to be FBS. He also said that EKU, JACK St. and Central Ark. have FBS aspirations. The ASUN is the conference that Liberty plays all sports but football in. I feel it is entirely possible that Liberty could be working hard to form the FBS league they desire. Just because they are making Indy work, doesn’t mean they desire Indy long term. Given the significant cost savings to Liberty of conference affiliation, they would be highly motivated to make a home for themselves. They have already challenged the NCAA i.e. Power 5 cartel by going FBS without a conference invite. Why not challenge the NCAA again on their position that no new FBS conferences will be formed. Liberty has the deep pockets to take the Power 5 to court and the Power 5 knows it.

(11-23-2020 07:32 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 06:59 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 03:11 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  No, some off the wall poster by the name of FBS Dave thinks so and a couple of guys who bleed purple but are delusional about scheduling realities in the current landscape.

Most reasonable people understand that becoming an independent isn’t a sensible thing for JMU to do.

Exactly! Just look at Liberty. They suck and they are finding it impossible to schedule decent competition.

And, don't give me the "Liberty is rich and we are broke" crap! We are not broke, and how many Dukes fans would chip in a lot more dough if we were FBS?

I am not going to argue as I know you and Hazed are dead set in your opinion. I respect your right to have one. Trying to convince you otherwise is like trying to convince a liberal that a conservative is right. It just isn’t going to happen.

I feel the solution is for us to move on from the Indy discussion because we are not changing how either of us feel. It is the ole agree to disagree thing.

I agree. But, I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why FBS indy won't work.

I have enumerated often the reasons it will work, but the responses to that have me shaking me friggin' head.... "Oh, no, it is too hard to schedule. We are doomed. We will never make it." Or, "Oh, no, we are broke-ass bastards and we can't possibly hope to accomplish what a filthy rich school like Liberty has accomplished. We are doomed. We will never make it."

Bullsh!t! With the proper vision and planning, we can do anything we want!

If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?

Almost nobody does it.

(11-23-2020 04:44 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  We have survived the pandemic so far more than other schools in our situation have.

What information can you share to support this statement? In what ways have we survived it better?

(11-23-2020 09:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?

No, they wouldn't. The teams who have left us behind are now in conferences that they are happy with. Good for them. We sh!t that bed a long time ago. What is left for us? More situation monitoring or FBS indy. Pretty easy decision, IMO.

(11-23-2020 09:28 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 04:44 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  We have survived the pandemic so far more than other schools in our situation have.

What information can you share to support this statement? In what ways have we survived it better?

There are literally NO other schools in our situation... not DE (loaded endowment, bad stadiun, yawning fanbase), not NDSU (better than us but way smaller budget, market, and zero travel partners)

We have been lapped by App, Liberty, and Coastal. This is sad as JMU has (had?) a higher cieling than all of them

Everything in sports cycles. App, Liberty and Coastal are riding a good wave right now. ECU and Marshall did so before them but have been in a drought. Marshall may have turned the corner this year.

JMU has had a heck of a ride the last four years. Does their wave take them to FBS or do they stay in FCS? Do they regress? We can’t talk in absolutes on this subject but some are.

It remains to be seen if JMU made the right move by not going CUSA or Sunbelt previously. 2020 is one year. We don’t know how the landscape for college football will evolve post COVID-19. We only know there will be changes.

I assume the negative pessimists are the ones that think that the best JMU can do is nothing other than the status quo.

I've been following the JMU FBS drama for a long time. I have to say, the independent route is by far the best solution i've seen yet. Conference scheduling is a worst case scenario for most non P5's due to far flung affiliations. There are few, if any, geographical rivals. The cost of travel is out of control. Fans can't travel to the away games due to costs.

I could imagine JMU creating a core schedule around some natural rivals and creating some geographic rivals. ODU, Richmond, App State, ECU all come to mind. Then fill in some pay games at P5 schools who are close enough for fans to attend. NCSU, VT, UVA, Maryland. JMU has a fan base that's big enough to fill seats in and around the Virginia area and to create some excitement around the state.

The lure of a bowl game due to conference agreements is miniscule compared to the excitement and revenues based on the games that would likely be available to a JMU. I hope your admin pursues this idea seriously. Good luck!

i dont think there are too many negative pessimists on here. most believe we will excel when we move up, as do i. there are two camps, 1. move to FBS anyway we can . 2. move when we have a conference that makes sense. actually there is a third camp, Dukeman.

with covid, i thought there would be more chatter about conference g5 realignment. maybe that comes this summer.

(11-23-2020 09:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?

Almost nobody does it.

Notre Dame is an exceptional case. They have kept a strong independent brand and have asserted their independence by choice.

If P5 was inviting JMU, that of course would be accepted.

The G5’s aren’t attractive as there is low conference money to share and the footprints aren’t regional or rivalry based.

“If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?”

Well, it’s not better than P5, so those programs won’t do it.

And going from FCS to FBS Indy was technically forbidden, though not enforceable, until Liberty successfully challenged the rule. Before that if you wanted to be Indy you had to have a conference sponsor your ascension as a stepping stone (like UMass).

Army’s best option seems Indy. They could definitely be in a G5 if they wanted. Navy is AAC as a football-only member. That affiliation could change over time depending on the course of the AAC.

UConn went Indy to be in a better basketball conference and improved their schedule over the AAC schedule AND increased their revenue.

So no, FBS Indy isn’t for every program and hasn’t been an ascension path until Liberty. JMU won’t get a P5 invite. I think JMU has already turned down the logical regional G5’s, right?

So the options are
1) seek an AAC invite. This seems highly unlikely for the AAC.
2) stay FCS.
3) FBS Indy.

Indy is a better path the CUSA, but it’s not really a debate any more on CUSA because that was already rejected, right?

So the AAC is a pipe dream, and you are left with CAA or FBS Indy. It seems like such an obvious choice.

(11-23-2020 09:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?

Almost nobody does it.

This ought to shed some light on how successful UCONN FBs is as an Indy and their budget is double that of JMU. Their basketball is the breadwinner, not football. They are losing money and are desperate to make money any way they can.

https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

(11-24-2020 01:33 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 09:27 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  If FBS Indy were so great, wouldn't everybody be doing it?

Almost nobody does it.

This ought to shed some light on how successful UCONN FBs is as an Indy and their budget is double that of JMU. Their basketball is the breadwinner, not football. They are losing money and are desperate to make money any way they can.

https://connecticut.rivals.com/news/fina...e-big-east

UConn waited for the new AAC "P6" TV deal to see if it was worthwhile to stay. The new TV deal raised the revenue line but added production costs and relegated much of the conference coverage to streaming. Not good for the bottom line. If the AAC had achieved a "P6" TV compensation it would have been worthwhile. But they didn't.

So UConn took a pretty bold move and improved their basketball and took on the challenge of Indy Football. They met the challenge with putting together a better football schedule than they left behind. Now... a key part of UConn's rebuild is that they have to get competitive on the field. They have stunk. UConn is the inverse of JMU. They have navigated the best position for the program with a bold move, but need to perform on the field. JMU has performed on the field, but has done nothing to maximize the program's place in the NCAA conference / Indy landscape.

A) FCS CAA
B) FBS Indy

There is no other choice, right?

(11-24-2020 11:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  i dont think there are too many negative pessimists on here. most believe we will excel when we move up, as do i. there are two camps, 1. move to FBS anyway we can . 2. move when we have a conference that makes sense. actually there is a third camp, Dukeman.

with covid, i thought there would be more chatter about conference g5 realignment. maybe that comes this summer.

Three Camps

1) Move to FBS anyway you can.

2) Be more aggressive than we have been realizing getting to where we want to be might take a step along the way.

3) Continue to wait for a conference that is a great, or close to ideal/perfect fit.

You say UConn took the challenge of Indy football. I view it as they chose hoops over football realized where their bread is buttered and kicked the can down the road. I don’t think Indy football is sustainable for UConn Umass and New Mexico State. They either need football only homes (UConn will never leave the Big East again) or all sports homes. Without them they will likely have to drop down or shutter their football program.

I just don’t see a path for an independent where the football program has been a dumpster fire for so long. How do you schedule in a way where you can realize success even gradual success. I think those programs will continue to struggle mightily in D1. Btw save an exhibition beat down money grab or two in Fall the three Independents I mentioned all sat out Football in Fall similar to ODU. Folks say JMU has lost ground by sitting out Fall when their conference and peers didn’t play and are scheduled for Spring. What do you think sitting out a season does to a program like Umass UConn NM State or ODU who was scuffling in the first place given that their conferences and peers did play in Fall and there is no Spring season for them?

JMU could make a go of Indy but I don’t think they have to. I think the time has come to either join a newly formed conference or join the Mac Sun Belt or CUsa. They need one travel partner to make it work.

(11-24-2020 03:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  You say UConn took the challenge of Indy football. I view it as they chose hoops over football realized where their bread is buttered and kicked the can down the road. I don’t think Indy football is sustainable for UConn Umass and New Mexico State. They either need football only homes (UConn will never leave the Big East again) or all sports homes. Without them they will likely have to drop down or shutter their football program.

I just don’t see a path for an independent where the football program has been a dumpster fire for so long. How do you schedule in a way where you can realize success even gradual success. I think those programs will continue to struggle mightily in D1. Btw save an exhibition beat down money grab or two in Fall the three Independents I mentioned all sat out Football in Fall similar to ODU. Folks say JMU has lost ground by sitting out Fall when their conference and peers didn’t play and are scheduled for Spring. What do you think sitting out a season does to a program like Umass UConn NM State or ODU who was scuffling in the first place given that their conferences and peers did play in Fall and there is no Spring season for them?

JMU could make a go of Indy but I don’t think they have to. I think the time has come to either join a newly formed conference or join the Mac Sun Belt or CUsa. They need one travel partner to make it work.

That first paragraph is exactly What happened. The aac deal is still better than the deal for the big East even after the production expenses. The funds just are allocated to a different place (basketball) in UCONNs place.

Hey you mind as well be Championship Caliber in one sport than none. UConn was Championship caliber, elite, borderline blue blood as a member of the Big East. I get mostly under legendary coach Calhoun and the last title was technically in the early years of the American - so was Louisville’s but those were Big East teams. Regardless of the AAC tv deal they were moving to the Big East. The passion for UConn hoops dwarfs UConn football and that was the case even when UConn football was doing well in the old Big East. It’s kind of how the passion for UMass hoops dwarfs the interest in football and look at how long ago at this point UMass was relevant in hoops under Calipari. They are still so hoops centric that they refuse to leave the A-10 where they haven’t been a factor for about as long as JMU hasn’t been a factor in the Caa.

(11-23-2020 07:32 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 06:59 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 03:11 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  No, some off the wall poster by the name of FBS Dave thinks so and a couple of guys who bleed purple but are delusional about scheduling realities in the current landscape.

Most reasonable people understand that becoming an independent isn’t a sensible thing for JMU to do.

Exactly! Just look at Liberty. They suck and they are finding it impossible to schedule decent competition.

And, don't give me the "Liberty is rich and we are broke" crap! We are not broke, and how many Dukes fans would chip in a lot more dough if we were FBS?

I am not going to argue as I know you and Hazed are dead set in your opinion. I respect your right to have one. Trying to convince you otherwise is like trying to convince a liberal that a conservative is right. It just isn’t going to happen.

I feel the solution is for us to move on from the Indy discussion because we are not changing how either of us feel. It is the ole agree to disagree thing.

I've not said much about independent. I don't even read the post about Indy because I know there is no chance in JMU goes Indy in football.

All I ask is that JMU explicitly tell alum/fans what JMU wants, do we or do we not want 1A football. If JMU says it, I am patient in getting there and probably don't post all that much while waiting...that is all I have wanted since joining Caazone/this board 12 years ago and I still don't know.

Call me whatever you want, my level of giving to JMU is directly tied to football/mbb and I don't like fcs football branding.

Pre Bourne (comment deserved or not it was Pre Bourne) I was proud of JMU basketball and made all kinds of sacrifices to attend games home and away.

(11-24-2020 03:02 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(11-24-2020 11:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  i dont think there are too many negative pessimists on here. most believe we will excel when we move up, as do i. there are two camps, 1. move to FBS anyway we can . 2. move when we have a conference that makes sense. actually there is a third camp, Dukeman.

with covid, i thought there would be more chatter about conference g5 realignment. maybe that comes this summer.

Three Camps

1) Move to FBS anyway you can.

2) Be more aggressive than we have been realizing getting to where we want to be might take a step along the way.

3) Continue to wait for a conference that is a great, or close to ideal/perfect fit.

Four Camps

1) 49% - Move to FBS anyway you can.


2) 49% - Be more aggressive than we have been realizing getting to where we want to be might take a step along the way.

3) 1% - Continue to wait for a conference that is a great, close to ideal/perfect fit. 1%

4) 1% - Dukeman - who knows what the hell he wants - probably wants to abolish the electorial college