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All Things Realignment
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DownOnRohs Offline
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Post: #18141
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!
 
07-20-2018 08:05 AM
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levydl Online
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Post: #18142
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 08:05 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!

It's allowed women opportunities that they were not getting before.

If you believe that college sports are good for the students playing them, whether or not the sport generates a profit, then you might see Title IX as beneficial overall.

If instead you are a college basketball and football fan and don't care about the students or anything else that the school does, then I can see how you'd think it's stupid and counterproductive.
 
07-20-2018 09:14 AM
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Post: #18143
RE: All Things Realignment
I am incredibly thankful my daughter will grow up in a world where Title IX gave women opportunities that simply were not there prior. You can complain about aspects of it and I get it, but ultimately its opened a huge amount of doors for women.
 
07-20-2018 11:30 AM
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Z-Fly Offline
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Post: #18144
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 08:05 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!

Nice post
 
07-20-2018 11:36 AM
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DownOnRohs Offline
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Post: #18145
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 09:14 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 08:05 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!

It's allowed women opportunities that they were not getting before.

If you believe that college sports are good for the students playing them, whether or not the sport generates a profit, then you might see Title IX as beneficial overall.

If instead you are a college basketball and football fan and don't care about the students or anything else that the school does, then I can see how you'd think it's stupid and counterproductive.

I was doing my best Doss Trump impression.
 
07-20-2018 11:36 AM
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bctn8n Away
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Post: #18146
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 11:30 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I am incredibly thankful my daughter will grow up in a world where Title IX gave women opportunities that simply were not there prior. You can complain about aspects of it and I get it, but ultimately its opened a huge amount of doors for women.

Amen Mark
 
07-20-2018 11:38 AM
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crex043 Offline
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Post: #18147
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 07:46 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  There has been speculation about the "top schools" pulling out of the NCAA since at least 1977 when the College Football Association (CFA) was formed. As I recall, UC football was in that group, though the program and facilities weren't in any way comparable to what we have today.

The landscape keeps changing in college athletics so I'd never say never. But there must be compelling reasons why the P5 or some alliance hasn't pulled away from the NCAA more than forty years since the CFA idea was hatched.
I think the p5 has more to lose than to gain from splitting. To form a new organization, everyone has to buy into the terms, including the student-athlete. You think a lawyer won't be interested in representing some top-tier athletes that want more pay based on performance? I think the P5 is staying where it is, is obviously getting the NCAA to implement rules that skew talent to them, and are creating scheduling alliances to separate themselves from the rest. All while not compensating players for using their likeness.
 
07-20-2018 12:19 PM
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Post: #18148
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 12:19 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:46 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  There has been speculation about the "top schools" pulling out of the NCAA since at least 1977 when the College Football Association (CFA) was formed. As I recall, UC football was in that group, though the program and facilities weren't in any way comparable to what we have today.

The landscape keeps changing in college athletics so I'd never say never. But there must be compelling reasons why the P5 or some alliance hasn't pulled away from the NCAA more than forty years since the CFA idea was hatched.
I think the p5 has more to lose than to gain from splitting. To form a new organization, everyone has to buy into the terms, including the student-athlete. You think a lawyer won't be interested in representing some top-tier athletes that want more pay based on performance? I think the P5 is staying where it is, is obviously getting the NCAA to implement rules that skew talent to them, and are creating scheduling alliances to separate themselves from the rest. All while not compensating players for using their likeness.

I too have had rumors of the P5 pulling out over the years; but it's not happening. The P5 schools aren't going to cook the golden goose here folks-- they basically get to do what they want as it is already (despite rules to the contrary-- see North Carolina, Miami(FL), Louisville, etc.), they are getting paid hand over fist and they have a built in system of inequity that rises the middle and lower tier P5 schools over schools in the G5.
 
07-20-2018 12:28 PM
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GoCats1994 Offline
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Post: #18149
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 09:14 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 08:05 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!

It's allowed women opportunities that they were not getting before.

If you believe that college sports are good for the students playing them, whether or not the sport generates a profit, then you might see Title IX as beneficial overall.

If instead you are a college basketball and football fan and don't care about the students or anything else that the school does, then I can see how you'd think it's stupid and counterproductive.

I don't think it's that simple (to narrow the debate to 2 points of view).
 
07-20-2018 12:47 PM
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Not Duane Offline
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Post: #18150
RE: All Things Realignment
(07-20-2018 09:14 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 08:05 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(07-20-2018 07:06 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Regarding Title IX, we probably should lot k at modernizing it’s application to meet the reality of college athletics. I always argued for an incentive based application that rewarded schools that invested in woman’s athletics without cutting men’s olympics. Ratio and quotas don’t always make the most sense when applied to the current economy. The spirit of the law is to provide opportunity. Somehow compliance by making sure the numbers of scholarship are roughly became the name of the game.

No. It is Federal Law! It is perfect the way it is! There is nothing stupid about it. Anyone who would suggest changing it is very stupid! STUPID!

It's allowed women opportunities that they were not getting before.

If you believe that college sports are good for the students playing them, whether or not the sport generates a profit, then you might see Title IX as beneficial overall.

If instead you are a college basketball and football fan and don't care about the students or anything else that the school does, then I can see how you'd think it's stupid and counterproductive.

There are other models that could work:

If it's all about enriching the college experience for the student, then make the non-revenue sports either club, intramural or non-scholarship. Then you can still play your sport and compete, but not be a drain (or as big a drain) on the AD.

or..you know...we could have women's FB!?!
 
07-22-2018 11:26 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #18151
RE: All Things Realignment
With the impending negotiations of the AAC television contract just a few months away in 2019, I'm wondering if ESPN will take this opportunity to once again "tamper" with the process of conference realignment? Many feel, at least in part, ESPN engineered the breakup of the old Big East. Perhaps media partners scuttled Big 12 expansion one year ago.

On that premise, might ESPN quietly conspire with Aresco and the AAC to create a "P6" conference on its own terms? Add 2-4 of the very best available teams from the other G5 conferences (Colorado State; maybe a re-worked deal with BYU, a cable property it already controls, Boise, AFA).

ESPN's motive for this is pure self-interest and profit driven. Give this expanded AAC a better TV deal (though still not close to the worst P5 deal) and in the process, effectively erode the value of all other G5 conferences in future TV negotiations by cherry picking their best remaining teams/markets. That puts the AAC among the "haves" in college football (though not with full funding parity) and continues the downward spiral of the remaining "G" conferences, the "have nots".

Thoughts?
 
08-31-2018 07:56 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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Post: #18152
RE: All Things Realignment
I think they will tamper with it but I don't think it will benefit the AAC. They may try to cherry pick a few AAC teams and add them to existing P5 conferences, effectively breaking up the AAC as they did the Big East. In my opinion the candidates would be (in no particular order) UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, and UC (and maybe UConn due to basketball)

UC has to hope they are one of the teams to be picked.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2018 08:07 AM by bearcatfan.)
08-31-2018 08:07 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #18153
RE: All Things Realignment
(08-31-2018 08:07 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I think they will tamper with it but I don't think it will benefit the AAC. They may try to cherry pick a few AAC teams and add them to existing P5 conferences, effectively breaking up the AAC as they did the Big East. In my opinion the candidates would be (in no particular order) UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, and UC (and maybe UConn due to basketball)

UC has to hope they are one of the teams to be picked.

Your scenario is another distinct possibility. While all of us on this board believe UC would be among the chosen few, the downside risk is enormous in that case if Cincinnati isn't selected for some reason and the AAC is decimated.

One argument for keeping the AAC intact is that it has generated pretty robust TV ratings on its own--far above the rest of the G5 from what I've seen. And at the current TV contract rate, that's producing a windfall for ESPN. Might they want to preserve that broadcast inventory by offering a modest (for them) contract increase while adding a couple of teams that add further value? Time will tell.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2018 08:28 AM by OKIcat.)
08-31-2018 08:27 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #18154
RE: All Things Realignment
(08-31-2018 08:07 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I think they will tamper with it but I don't think it will benefit the AAC. They may try to cherry pick a few AAC teams and add them to existing P5 conferences, effectively breaking up the AAC as they did the Big East. In my opinion the candidates would be (in no particular order) UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, and UC (and maybe UConn due to basketball)

UC has to hope they are one of the teams to be picked.

Our competition isn't just with other AAC schools. Assuming it's the B12 that gets added to, they'll also look West at BYU, Boise, Colorado State and maybe UNLV. Best case scenario, there's 8 schools fighting for 4 spots. Worst case, it's 9 fighting for 2 spots.
 
08-31-2018 08:31 AM
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Post: #18155
RE: All Things Realignment
(08-31-2018 08:27 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-31-2018 08:07 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I think they will tamper with it but I don't think it will benefit the AAC. They may try to cherry pick a few AAC teams and add them to existing P5 conferences, effectively breaking up the AAC as they did the Big East. In my opinion the candidates would be (in no particular order) UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, and UC (and maybe UConn due to basketball)

UC has to hope they are one of the teams to be picked.

Your scenario is another distinct possibility. While all of us on this board believe UC would be among the chosen few, the downside risk is enormous in that case if Cincinnati isn't selected for some reason and the AAC is decimated.

One argument for keeping the AAC intact is that it has generated pretty robust TV ratings on its own--far above the rest of the G5 from what I've seen. And at the current TV contract rate, that's producing a windfall for ESPN. Might they want to preserve that broadcast inventory by offering a modest (for them) contract increase while adding a couple of teams that add further value? Time will tell.

I cannot see the 4 letter wanting to decimate the AAC as they did the former BE. BE was a thorn in the side of ACC Bball and Fball was doing alright as well. Then the BE tried to initiate a bidding war. The 4 letter locked the AAC into a bargain basement deal, which created profit for them. Why rock that boat, especially when the 4 letter has lost viewers and revenue in other areas of their programming. I see a modest contract increase to appease the Aresco and the Univ Presidents.
 
08-31-2018 08:34 AM
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Post: #18156
RE: All Things Realignment
(08-31-2018 08:27 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(08-31-2018 08:07 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I think they will tamper with it but I don't think it will benefit the AAC. They may try to cherry pick a few AAC teams and add them to existing P5 conferences, effectively breaking up the AAC as they did the Big East. In my opinion the candidates would be (in no particular order) UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, and UC (and maybe UConn due to basketball)

UC has to hope they are one of the teams to be picked.

Your scenario is another distinct possibility. While all of us on this board believe UC would be among the chosen few, the downside risk is enormous in that case if Cincinnati isn't selected for some reason and the AAC is decimated.

One argument for keeping the AAC intact is that it has generated pretty robust TV ratings on its own--far above the rest of the G5 from what I've seen. And at the current TV contract rate, that's producing a windfall for ESPN. Might they want to preserve that broadcast inventory by offering a modest (for them) contract increase while adding a couple of teams that add further value? Time will tell.

That is exactly why ESPN will try to keep them intact. If they move to another P5, they will have to pay those schools much more money then to give the AAC a modest bump.

So they can spend 60-100 million a year on 2-4 schools going elsewhere (And then have to deal with the remaining schools still) or they can give the AAC a modest bump to $5-7 million per school in the conference and still pay less money in the long run and keep the AAC and their nice ratings.

I don't think realignment is coming until the TV model comes crashing down. I just think in 5 years or so, there won't be the money to give these P5 schools $30-$40 million a year and then the gravy train will dry up (Cable companies are already feeling a big pinch and it is only going to get worse). Money will be cut at least in half and I have a feeling the blue bloods are still going to get their money (Maybe the ability for O$U, Notre Dame, SEC big wigs etc to sell some of their games on their own to keep more profit). So the rich will still get theirs, but the Wake Forests of the world won't. At that point, I can see more re-alignment as some schools may not be willing to play ball and they also at that point will care more about regional rivalries and trying to save a few bucks on travel. I think that is what will benefit UC. We probably won't see a huge increase in money, but I think it will be good in the long run.
 
08-31-2018 08:40 AM
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Post: #18157
RE: All Things Realignment
Espn is in such a state of disarray right now i think they operate on a very short term perspective. They're not making any rules anymore.
 
08-31-2018 09:37 AM
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Post: #18158
RE: All Things Realignment
(08-31-2018 09:37 AM)dsquare Wrote:  Espn is in such a state of disarray right now i think they operate on a very short term perspective. They're not making any rules anymore.

This is what I was thinking. Different leadership at ESPN who are trying to save their own butts - I don't think they have the influence they did 10 years ago. They might try though.
 
08-31-2018 10:16 AM
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Post: #18159
RE: All Things Realignment
ESPN isn't going to give us more money. We've got to focus on streaming and hit while that iron is hot for live content (AKA adding commercials to streaming services such as Netflix.)
 
08-31-2018 01:37 PM
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Post: #18160
RE: All Things Realignment
did we really bring tommy in to reshuffle our deck? it seems we are in danger
 
09-01-2018 02:03 PM
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