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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #18101
RE: All Things Realignment
(06-21-2018 11:06 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 05:15 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 03:21 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 02:08 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:09 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Why can't ND be a P5 independent? Have the same payout, but be an independent w/in the P5?

If it's all about $$, then the networks will bend backwards to get the top line programs on the air in prime time.

They'll work with ND.

(06-18-2018 01:24 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Right there is why...

(06-20-2018 01:19 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  How do you manage to get by on that.

ND makes their hay on the "sweetheart" part of their sweetheart deals that they get. They get to keep a lot that the other teams have to share. Am I wrong?

Just curious. Is ND kicking in the same as the rest of the ACC for the ACCN?



You are wrong. There are no "sweetheart deals". ND only shares in ACC minor bowl revenues if he makes one of the bowls itself. Otherwise, nothing.

It will share fully in the ACC Network profits, but the ACC will ride ND's brand (particularly in New York and Chicago) and ND is paying its full share of production costs.

ND can "get by" on its $28 million from TV, but don't gloss over that football conference schools make millions more from TV each year, whether or not their brand actually earns the conference that much.

Hell, the Big Ten is distributing over $50 million a year to schools like Indiana and Minnesota, not actually big media draws.

IF ND were "greedy" and was motivated only by the most TV money, it would have joined the Big Ten long ago.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/56781bce...74755b5e3f

Come on dude, there's more to it than TV money. Four years ago the team made $86M in revenue. And where the conferences share everything, ND keeps every penny.

You guys always have your cake and eat it too. That's the reason why ND will never go in straight up even on a conference.

...not because the marketing department wants to make sure they get to play Stanford every year.

You are wrong. Cite some of these "not share everything" deals for ND, other than the NBC contract.

ND shares the basketball money with the ACC. It keeps the NBC money, but it is less or the same as the ACC TV payout.

All teams keep gate and apparel revenues, not just ND.

What else is there? Name the "gold mine" that is shared by other schools but ND keeps all to themselves.

The reason ND football doesn't join a conference is that ND markets itself as the national, Catholic school and doesn't want to be tied down to one region if it committed to eight or nine games a year in a single conference.

This is a very interesting series of posts you've made. Nobody appears to have facts to rebut your claims, so you may well be correct.

Uh... I posted a link showing that they made $86M on football four years ago. That's a bit more than the paltry $20+M that we were led to believe was all they made.

If you believe the only reason Rudy U wont join a conference is to play a national schedule... well then I don't know what to tell ya.
 
06-21-2018 11:57 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #18102
RE: All Things Realignment
I am not a Notre Dame fan, but TV money really is not the reason they wont join. Their TV money is very good, but it would be elsewhere too. Most their other direct football money (tickets, consessions, bowl money, etc) would not change dramatically with a conference move.

What would change a lot would be donors (whom schools now rely heavily on) willingness to donate money. No one is going to start giving money becasue Notre Dame joins a conference, but several large donors might well stop. Independence is now the biggest part of Irish football identity and there would be majpr push back from changing it. That will stop any move unless the schiol feels forced.
 
06-21-2018 12:06 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #18103
RE: All Things Realignment
(06-21-2018 11:57 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 11:06 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 05:15 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 03:21 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 02:08 PM)TerryD Wrote:  You are wrong. There are no "sweetheart deals". ND only shares in ACC minor bowl revenues if he makes one of the bowls itself. Otherwise, nothing.

It will share fully in the ACC Network profits, but the ACC will ride ND's brand (particularly in New York and Chicago) and ND is paying its full share of production costs.

ND can "get by" on its $28 million from TV, but don't gloss over that football conference schools make millions more from TV each year, whether or not their brand actually earns the conference that much.

Hell, the Big Ten is distributing over $50 million a year to schools like Indiana and Minnesota, not actually big media draws.

IF ND were "greedy" and was motivated only by the most TV money, it would have joined the Big Ten long ago.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/56781bce...74755b5e3f

Come on dude, there's more to it than TV money. Four years ago the team made $86M in revenue. And where the conferences share everything, ND keeps every penny.

You guys always have your cake and eat it too. That's the reason why ND will never go in straight up even on a conference.

...not because the marketing department wants to make sure they get to play Stanford every year.

You are wrong. Cite some of these "not share everything" deals for ND, other than the NBC contract.

ND shares the basketball money with the ACC. It keeps the NBC money, but it is less or the same as the ACC TV payout.

All teams keep gate and apparel revenues, not just ND.

What else is there? Name the "gold mine" that is shared by other schools but ND keeps all to themselves.

The reason ND football doesn't join a conference is that ND markets itself as the national, Catholic school and doesn't want to be tied down to one region if it committed to eight or nine games a year in a single conference.

This is a very interesting series of posts you've made. Nobody appears to have facts to rebut your claims, so you may well be correct.

Uh... I posted a link showing that they made $86M on football four years ago. That's a bit more than the paltry $20+M that we were led to believe was all they made.

If you believe the only reason Rudy U wont join a conference is to play a national schedule... well then I don't know what to tell ya.

That link you posted was ALL football revenue for 2014.

If you looked at the link, it also said that Tennessee made $94 million in 2014 revenue. By your logic, the Volunteers also have some sort of "sweetheart" deal.

The alternative to your story (which Terry is saying) is that the TV revenue is a small slice of the overall revenue generated by college football. The average price of an ND ticket is $112 which means that ticket revenue is about $54 million (6 games * 81,000 seats * $112 per seat). There's also luxury boxes, parking, concessions, in-stadium advertising, radio, etc to add on top of that.
 
06-21-2018 03:34 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #18104
RE: All Things Realignment
(06-21-2018 07:57 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 05:15 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 03:21 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 02:08 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:09 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Why can't ND be a P5 independent? Have the same payout, but be an independent w/in the P5?

If it's all about $$, then the networks will bend backwards to get the top line programs on the air in prime time.

They'll work with ND.

(06-18-2018 01:24 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Right there is why...

(06-20-2018 01:19 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  How do you manage to get by on that.

ND makes their hay on the "sweetheart" part of their sweetheart deals that they get. They get to keep a lot that the other teams have to share. Am I wrong?

Just curious. Is ND kicking in the same as the rest of the ACC for the ACCN?



You are wrong. There are no "sweetheart deals". ND only shares in ACC minor bowl revenues if he makes one of the bowls itself. Otherwise, nothing.

It will share fully in the ACC Network profits, but the ACC will ride ND's brand (particularly in New York and Chicago) and ND is paying its full share of production costs.

ND can "get by" on its $28 million from TV, but don't gloss over that football conference schools make millions more from TV each year, whether or not their brand actually earns the conference that much.

Hell, the Big Ten is distributing over $50 million a year to schools like Indiana and Minnesota, not actually big media draws.

IF ND were "greedy" and was motivated only by the most TV money, it would have joined the Big Ten long ago.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/56781bce...74755b5e3f

Come on dude, there's more to it than TV money. Four years ago the team made $86M in revenue. And where the conferences share everything, ND keeps every penny.

You guys always have your cake and eat it too. That's the reason why ND will never go in straight up even on a conference.

...not because the marketing department wants to make sure they get to play Stanford every year.

You are wrong. Cite some of these "not share everything" deals for ND, other than the NBC contract.

ND shares the basketball money with the ACC. It keeps the NBC money, but it is less or the same as the ACC TV payout.

All teams keep gate and apparel revenues, not just ND.

What else is there? Name the "gold mine" that is shared by other schools but ND keeps all to themselves.

The reason ND football doesn't join a conference is that ND markets itself as the national, Catholic school and doesn't want to be tied down to one region if it committed to eight or nine games a year in a single conference.

Don't ask me. Ask Forbes where $86M magically comes from.

Look, I'm not buying the "hey, we're just like everyone else" angle because it's just not true. You obviously disagree. Whatever.

I'm sure some Texas guy would say the same thing.

Just don't patronize us by coming on here and saying that you don't want to join a conference because you don't want to play Purdue every year.

...Like you used to.

So, you have no facts or figures to refute anything, but persist in your bias and unsupported opinions.

Your $86 million per year for ND revenues is incorrect or old. Its EADA filing for 2026-17 shows its revenues at $132,371,404, with a profit of $26,530,790.


https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/?#/institution/details

(You have to type in the name of the school in the link)

However, there are a number of share full conference revenue, (all for one, one for all) schools that make more money (in total) than Notre Dame, schools like:

Texas, Alabama, Texas A&M, Michigan and LSU. See the attachment below.

So, there is no magic oil well or "special deals" that only Notre Dame keeps all revenues from. In fact, independence costs ND a lot of money.



https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/riches...?a=viewall


Some myths die hard.
 
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:16 AM by TerryD.)
06-21-2018 04:09 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #18105
RE: All Things Realignment
(06-21-2018 12:06 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I am not a Notre Dame fan, but TV money really is not the reason they wont join. Their TV money is very good, but it would be elsewhere too. Most their other direct football money (tickets, consessions, bowl money, etc) would not change dramatically with a conference move.

What would change a lot would be donors (whom schools now rely heavily on) willingness to donate money. No one is going to start giving money becasue Notre Dame joins a conference, but several large donors might well stop. Independence is now the biggest part of Irish football identity and there would be majpr push back from changing it. That will stop any move unless the schiol feels forced.

I can't speak to the issue of donors abandoning ND if it joined a conference but I agree with you for the most part. Notre Dame's independence has allowed it to carry the mantle of a "championship contender" for years since the real power in college football shifted south decades ago. The school's best football is clearly in the rearview mirror. Kelly may have coached them up in 2012 with some love from the pollsters to reach the championship game. The result wasn't pretty as they were completely overmatched against a fine Alabama squad.

So ND fans wouldn't relish the idea of finishing 2nd or 3rd any given year in a divisional race in the ACC. Not when it can play a patchwork "national" schedule that creates enough ambiguity in the minds of poll voters, that, when combined with historic brand equity, floats its ranking higher than deserved.
 
Yesterday 07:51 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #18106
RE: All Things Realignment
(06-21-2018 04:09 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 07:57 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 05:15 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 03:21 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 02:08 PM)TerryD Wrote:  You are wrong. There are no "sweetheart deals". ND only shares in ACC minor bowl revenues if he makes one of the bowls itself. Otherwise, nothing.

It will share fully in the ACC Network profits, but the ACC will ride ND's brand (particularly in New York and Chicago) and ND is paying its full share of production costs.

ND can "get by" on its $28 million from TV, but don't gloss over that football conference schools make millions more from TV each year, whether or not their brand actually earns the conference that much.

Hell, the Big Ten is distributing over $50 million a year to schools like Indiana and Minnesota, not actually big media draws.

IF ND were "greedy" and was motivated only by the most TV money, it would have joined the Big Ten long ago.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/56781bce...74755b5e3f

Come on dude, there's more to it than TV money. Four years ago the team made $86M in revenue. And where the conferences share everything, ND keeps every penny.

You guys always have your cake and eat it too. That's the reason why ND will never go in straight up even on a conference.

...not because the marketing department wants to make sure they get to play Stanford every year.

You are wrong. Cite some of these "not share everything" deals for ND, other than the NBC contract.

ND shares the basketball money with the ACC. It keeps the NBC money, but it is less or the same as the ACC TV payout.

All teams keep gate and apparel revenues, not just ND.

What else is there? Name the "gold mine" that is shared by other schools but ND keeps all to themselves.

The reason ND football doesn't join a conference is that ND markets itself as the national, Catholic school and doesn't want to be tied down to one region if it committed to eight or nine games a year in a single conference.

Don't ask me. Ask Forbes where $86M magically comes from.

Look, I'm not buying the "hey, we're just like everyone else" angle because it's just not true. You obviously disagree. Whatever.

I'm sure some Texas guy would say the same thing.

Just don't patronize us by coming on here and saying that you don't want to join a conference because you don't want to play Purdue every year.

...Like you used to.

So, you have no facts or figures to refute anything, but persist in your bias and unsupported opinions.

Your $86 million per year for ND revenues is incorrect or old. Its EADA filing for 2026-17 shows its revenues at $132,371,404, with a profit of $26,530,790.


https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/?#/institution/details

(You have to type in the name of the school in the link)

However, there are a number of share full conference revenue, (all for one, one for all) schools that make more money (in total) than Notre Dame, schools like:

Texas, Alabama, Texas A&M, Michigan and LSU. See the attachment below.

So, there is no magic oil well or "special deals" that only Notre Dame keeps all revenues from. In fact, independence costs ND a lot of money.



https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/riches...?a=viewall


Some myths die hard.

You do this a lot. I can tell.

Regardless, I am going to write a strongly worded letter to that fly by night publication Forbes magazine and scold them for that false information they are spreading about old Notre Dame. By golly, they ARE just like all the rest of us.

...except that they want to play a national schedule in football.
 
Yesterday 08:35 AM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #18107
RE: All Things Realignment
(Yesterday 07:51 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  So ND fans wouldn't relish the idea of finishing 2nd or 3rd any given year in a divisional race in the ACC. Not when it can play a patchwork "national" schedule that creates enough ambiguity in the minds of poll voters, that, when combined with historic brand equity, floats its ranking higher than deserved.

This perfectly sums up Notre Dame's strategy.
 
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 10:50 AM by UCbball21.)
Yesterday 10:48 AM
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doss2 Offline
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Post: #18108
RE: All Things Realignment
(Yesterday 07:51 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 12:06 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I am not a Notre Dame fan, but TV money really is not the reason they wont join. Their TV money is very good, but it would be elsewhere too. Most their other direct football money (tickets, consessions, bowl money, etc) would not change dramatically with a conference move.

What would change a lot would be donors (whom schools now rely heavily on) willingness to donate money. No one is going to start giving money becasue Notre Dame joins a conference, but several large donors might well stop. Independence is now the biggest part of Irish football identity and there would be majpr push back from changing it. That will stop any move unless the schiol feels forced.

I can't speak to the issue of donors abandoning ND if it joined a conference but I agree with you for the most part. Notre Dame's independence has allowed it to carry the mantle of a "championship contender" for years since the real power in college football shifted south decades ago. The school's best football is clearly in the rearview mirror. Kelly may have coached them up in 2012 with some love from the pollsters to reach the championship game. The result wasn't pretty as they were completely overmatched against a fine Alabama squad.

So ND fans wouldn't relish the idea of finishing 2nd or 3rd any given year in a divisional race in the ACC. Not when it can play a patchwork "national" schedule that creates enough ambiguity in the minds of poll voters, that, when combined with historic brand equity, floats its ranking higher than deserved.
Very insightful!
 
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #18109
RE: All Things Realignment
(Yesterday 07:51 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 12:06 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I am not a Notre Dame fan, but TV money really is not the reason they wont join. Their TV money is very good, but it would be elsewhere too. Most their other direct football money (tickets, consessions, bowl money, etc) would not change dramatically with a conference move.

What would change a lot would be donors (whom schools now rely heavily on) willingness to donate money. No one is going to start giving money becasue Notre Dame joins a conference, but several large donors might well stop. Independence is now the biggest part of Irish football identity and there would be majpr push back from changing it. That will stop any move unless the schiol feels forced.

I can't speak to the issue of donors abandoning ND if it joined a conference but I agree with you for the most part. Notre Dame's independence has allowed it to carry the mantle of a "championship contender" for years since the real power in college football shifted south decades ago. The school's best football is clearly in the rearview mirror. Kelly may have coached them up in 2012 with some love from the pollsters to reach the championship game. The result wasn't pretty as they were completely overmatched against a fine Alabama squad.

So ND fans wouldn't relish the idea of finishing 2nd or 3rd any given year in a divisional race in the ACC. Not when it can play a patchwork "national" schedule that creates enough ambiguity in the minds of poll voters, that, when combined with historic brand equity, floats its ranking higher than deserved.

So, ND is ducking things by scheduling games with Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, etc...? Got it.

ND is 13-7 against the ACC since it joined and committed to play five games a year It lost 4 of those games in a putrid 4-8 record in 2016.

So, I don't think it would fare as badly in a conference as you believe.

It did go 10-3 both in 2015 and 2017, finishing ranked #11 both seasons.

I guess those results were some kind of mirage.
 
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #18110
RE: All Things Realignment
(Yesterday 08:35 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 04:09 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 07:57 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 05:15 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-20-2018 03:21 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  https://www.forbes.com/pictures/56781bce...74755b5e3f

Come on dude, there's more to it than TV money. Four years ago the team made $86M in revenue. And where the conferences share everything, ND keeps every penny.

You guys always have your cake and eat it too. That's the reason why ND will never go in straight up even on a conference.

...not because the marketing department wants to make sure they get to play Stanford every year.

You are wrong. Cite some of these "not share everything" deals for ND, other than the NBC contract.

ND shares the basketball money with the ACC. It keeps the NBC money, but it is less or the same as the ACC TV payout.

All teams keep gate and apparel revenues, not just ND.

What else is there? Name the "gold mine" that is shared by other schools but ND keeps all to themselves.

The reason ND football doesn't join a conference is that ND markets itself as the national, Catholic school and doesn't want to be tied down to one region if it committed to eight or nine games a year in a single conference.

Don't ask me. Ask Forbes where $86M magically comes from.

Look, I'm not buying the "hey, we're just like everyone else" angle because it's just not true. You obviously disagree. Whatever.

I'm sure some Texas guy would say the same thing.

Just don't patronize us by coming on here and saying that you don't want to join a conference because you don't want to play Purdue every year.

...Like you used to.

So, you have no facts or figures to refute anything, but persist in your bias and unsupported opinions.

Your $86 million per year for ND revenues is incorrect or old. Its EADA filing for 2026-17 shows its revenues at $132,371,404, with a profit of $26,530,790.


https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/?#/institution/details

(You have to type in the name of the school in the link)

However, there are a number of share full conference revenue, (all for one, one for all) schools that make more money (in total) than Notre Dame, schools like:

Texas, Alabama, Texas A&M, Michigan and LSU. See the attachment below.

So, there is no magic oil well or "special deals" that only Notre Dame keeps all revenues from. In fact, independence costs ND a lot of money.



https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/riches...?a=viewall


Some myths die hard.

You do this a lot. I can tell.

Regardless, I am going to write a strongly worded letter to that fly by night publication Forbes magazine and scold them for that false information they are spreading about old Notre Dame. By golly, they ARE just like all the rest of us.

...except that they want to play a national schedule in football.

So, you still have no contrary facts, at all......
 
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