Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Author Message
UConn-SMU Offline
often wrong, never in doubt
*

Posts: 12,961
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 373
I Root For: the AAC
Location: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Post: #1
Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Some would argue that there is an "American culture", common to all of us. They say that immigrant groups have historically come to the U.S. and assimilated after a generation or two into a single culture. This is the melting pot theory.

I've also heard it argued that the melting pot theory is antiquated. We are now a giant "salad bowl", with many separate and distinct cultures. For example, we have a separate Hispanic-American culture, African-American culture, Greek-American culture, Islamic-American culture, etc.

Or maybe it's possible that we're a little of both (melting pot and salad bowl).

I have no position on this issue. I just want to hear other opinions. Hopefully we can get some opinions and no one will say this is a taboo topic.
11-11-2012 12:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


miko33 Offline
Defender of Honesty and Integrity
*

Posts: 13,117
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 848
I Root For: Alma Mater
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 12:55 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Some would argue that there is an "American culture", common to all of us. They say that immigrant groups have historically come to the U.S. and assimilated after a generation or two into a single culture. This is the melting pot theory.

I've also heard it argued that the melting pot theory is antiquated. We are now a giant "salad bowl", with many separate and distinct cultures. For example, we have a separate Hispanic-American culture, African-American culture, Greek-American culture, Islamic-American culture, etc.

Or maybe it's possible that we're a little of both (melting pot and salad bowl).

I have no position on this issue. I just want to hear other opinions. Hopefully we can get some opinions and no one will say this is a taboo topic.

Probably a combination of both, but trending strongly towards the salad bowl concept. In the past, it was expected that people coming to this country did so because they wanted a fresh start and they would embrace America. They would want to do well in this country and common sense tells you to succeed - you need to embrace learning English and trying to learn how to fit into American culture. Now, the gov't bends over backwards to accommodate immigrants to the point that they no longer have to learn the language in order to extract benefits from the gov't. Combine that with the strategy of the Democrats to pursue group politics as a means to secure more votes and it only cements the idea that we are all different groups. We're becoming like the Balkans. There are still immigrants that want to come to America and immerse themselves into the culture. Too bad that many immigrants are told that this idea of blending in is a betrayal to your culture and that you are actually an "Uncle Tom" because you want to learn how to be an American...
11-11-2012 07:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BleedsHuskieRed Offline
All American
*

Posts: 10,067
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 78
I Root For: NIU
Location: Colorado Springs

Donators
Post: #3
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Trending towards salad bowl, especially as the left takes over and forces us to accept the Mexican flag hanging in schools while the US flag is considered a distraction.
11-11-2012 07:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
firmbizzle Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,447
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 442
I Root For: UF, UCF
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Salad bowl. Which is good. People should keep their identity. Could you imagine if everybody were the same?
11-11-2012 07:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #5
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
The melting pot theory was simply never right to begin with.
11-11-2012 08:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #6
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 07:36 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Salad bowl. Which is good. People should keep their identity. Could you imagine if everybody were the same?

More ignorance. Is that your identity that we should all be pleased with?
11-11-2012 08:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


firmbizzle Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,447
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation: 442
I Root For: UF, UCF
Location:
Post: #7
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
I'm glad that you are different. Don't want to melt with you.
11-11-2012 08:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UConn-SMU Offline
often wrong, never in doubt
*

Posts: 12,961
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 373
I Root For: the AAC
Location: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Post: #8
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 07:36 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Salad bowl. Which is good. People should keep their identity. Could you imagine if everybody were the same?

My ancestors came from Sweden and Germany, starting in 1856. I don't know anything about Sweden except they had vikings and they make Volvos. And I don't know anything about Germany except we beat them in two world wars and they have Oktoberfest.

My family completely (and intentionally) left all European traditions in Europe when they arrived in NYC. 150 years ago, they enthusiastically adopted American culture. At this point, it would be impossible for me to start celebrating Swedish or German culture. I'm not going to be able to participate as a salad bowl American. But if others want to do that, more power to them.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 08:42 AM by UConn-SMU.)
11-11-2012 08:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BleedsHuskieRed Offline
All American
*

Posts: 10,067
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 78
I Root For: NIU
Location: Colorado Springs

Donators
Post: #9
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Yea this salad bowl thing is great. I mean just look at how divided this country is. When you get too many people who don't want to mix with their fellow Americans, you get animosity and have people with no connection to one another. That will be great!
11-11-2012 08:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #10
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 08:39 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 07:36 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Salad bowl. Which is good. People should keep their identity. Could you imagine if everybody were the same?

My ancestors came from Sweden and Germany, starting in 1856. I don't know anything about Sweden except they had vikings and they make Volvos. And I don't know anything about Germany except we beat them in two world wars and they have Oktoberfest.

My family completely (and intentionally) left all European traditions in Europe when they arrived in NYC. 150 years ago, they enthusiastically adopted American culture. At this point, it would be impossible for me to start celebrating Swedish or German culture. I'm not going to be able to participate as a salad bowl American.

Many from that region harbored early populist/socialist views and strongly believed in central planning. I'm not sure why, I just don't know enouh about mid-19th C Scandanavian political science, but there was a drive left even among hard-working settlers of MN, WI and IA.

Not saying your family was this way, just pointing out some surprising facts about that wave of immigration.

Germans always liked the central authority, and the Prussian model of developing factory serfs which was the foundation of the US public school system.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 08:47 AM by DrTorch.)
11-11-2012 08:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mptnstr@44 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,047
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 427
I Root For: Nati Bearcats
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Immigrants to the US in the past stayed in their ethnic enclaves at first due to the language and cultural familiarity when they first arrived. Most cities had Greek, Irish, German, Italian, Chinese, etc. areas. So when they first arrived and even the first generation they didn't "melt into the pot."

It was more the second and third generations that assimilated more completely. Those children went to school, dated, married, worked with other cultures causing blending over time. There were and are still many social groups that celebrate ethnic heritage.

In the past immigrant parents did strongly encourage their children to learn English so they would be able to work and assimilate. I do believe most immigrant parents today still encourage their children to learn English. Schools may be over accommodating to the child's detriment. I do think overdoing it and not encouraging assimilation overtime is problematic. Americans don't need to be homogenous but they need to be loyal to America first.

Immigrants can and should celebrate their ethnic heritage. It's part of what makes America an interesting and enriching place to live. What other country celebrates a variety of heritages like we do? What would America be like with out Saint Patricks Day, Oktoberfest, Greek festivals, Chinese New Year, etc. These are all outcomes of our diversity.

I think American has been a salad bowl that melted. I think we are more of a salad bowl now.
11-11-2012 09:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


boss man Offline
The Collapse is Imminent
*

Posts: 15,404
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 871
I Root For: MEMPHIS TIGERS
Location: Arlington, TN
Post: #12
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
Salad bowl, for sure.
11-11-2012 09:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dbackjon Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,009
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 657
I Root For: NAU/Illini
Location:
Post: #13
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 09:01 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Immigrants to the US in the past stayed in their ethnic enclaves at first due to the language and cultural familiarity when they first arrived. Most cities had Greek, Irish, German, Italian, Chinese, etc. areas. So when they first arrived and even the first generation they didn't "melt into the pot."

It was more the second and third generations that assimilated more completely. Those children went to school, dated, married, worked with other cultures causing blending over time. There were and are still many social groups that celebrate ethnic heritage.

Exactly correct. Many Germans did not assimilate fully until WWI. Up to that point, there were many German language schools, newspapers, etc.

Three big differences between current immigration and past:
1) Ease of travel. In the 1800's, when you left the home country, you left it for good - travel was long and expensive. Now, air travel can you get back quickly, and relatives can visit easily

2) Communication. You can stay easily connected to the old country via skype, email, etc, as opposed to a month-long letter exchange.

3) Closeness of immigrants. Immigrants coming across a common border vs 5,000 miles away


In spite of that, 2nd generation immigrants from Mexico are still assimilating well. I know more Spanish than my partner's nephews, and their dad was born in Mexico. I see this all the time - the children of Hispanic immigrants are more American than anything else.
11-11-2012 11:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bull_In_Exile Offline
Eternal Pessimist
*

Posts: 21,809
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 461
I Root For: The Underdog
Location:
Post: #14
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 12:55 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Some would argue that there is an "American culture", common to all of us. They say that immigrant groups have historically come to the U.S. and assimilated after a generation or two into a single culture. This is the melting pot theory.

I've also heard it argued that the melting pot theory is antiquated. We are now a giant "salad bowl", with many separate and distinct cultures. For example, we have a separate Hispanic-American culture, African-American culture, Greek-American culture, Islamic-American culture, etc.

Or maybe it's possible that we're a little of both (melting pot and salad bowl).

I have no position on this issue. I just want to hear other opinions. Hopefully we can get some opinions and no one will say this is a taboo topic.

The Melting pot never meant we were carbon copies of each other, nor that there were not sub cultures.

We've always been what I would call a chowder society. We you can pick out a distinct nugget here or there but on the whole is one food item.

"Salad" societies never work, especially when there is a democratic nature to it. When you primarily identify "us" and "them" then you will vote against the majority of your fellow citizens for the good of your own group, weather or not the issue at hand is just.
11-11-2012 11:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RobertN Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,485
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation: 95
I Root For: THE NIU Huskies
Location: Wayne's World
Post: #15
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 12:55 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Some would argue that there is an "American culture", common to all of us. They say that immigrant groups have historically come to the U.S. and assimilated after a generation or two into a single culture. This is the melting pot theory.

I've also heard it argued that the melting pot theory is antiquated. We are now a giant "salad bowl", with many separate and distinct cultures. For example, we have a separate Hispanic-American culture, African-American culture, Greek-American culture, Islamic-American culture, etc.

Or maybe it's possible that we're a little of both (melting pot and salad bowl).

I have no position on this issue. I just want to hear other opinions. Hopefully we can get some opinions and no one will say this is a taboo topic.
Good question. I do know that you want this country to be a box of saltine crackers.
11-11-2012 12:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nomad2u2001 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,356
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation: 450
I Root For: ECU
Location: NC
Post: #16
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
I think people view the "melting pot" in a different way than I do. It's not that we have one stagnant culture that all immigrants just dissolve into. Every culture adds to the mixture and the mixture changes over time. We're still a melting pot, IMO.
11-11-2012 12:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


dcCid Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,538
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 37
I Root For: ACC, Big East
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post: #17
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 12:24 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think people view the "melting pot" in a different way than I do. It's not that we have one stagnant culture that all immigrants just dissolve into. Every culture adds to the mixture and the mixture changes over time. We're still a melting pot, IMO.

Agree that we still are a melting pot. I am an american mutt.

I also have no problem with the government helping those who are not comfortable with English. Many public schools offer ESOL, but all subjects are still taught in English.

People come here for a better life as they always have, although more now for economic reasons rather than just persecution.

Why do some think this is no longer the case?
11-11-2012 01:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bull_In_Exile Offline
Eternal Pessimist
*

Posts: 21,809
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 461
I Root For: The Underdog
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 01:36 PM)dcCid Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 12:24 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think people view the "melting pot" in a different way than I do. It's not that we have one stagnant culture that all immigrants just dissolve into. Every culture adds to the mixture and the mixture changes over time. We're still a melting pot, IMO.

Agree that we still are a melting pot. I am an american mutt.

I also have no problem with the government helping those who are not comfortable with English. Many public schools offer ESOL, but all subjects are still taught in English.

People come here for a better life as they always have, although more now for economic reasons rather than just persecution.

Why do some think this is no longer the case?

Nobody thinks the reason has change but the mechanics have changed.

A good number of Immigrants in the 1800s went home because they could not make it here. Today you don't have to "make it" you can collect welfare, ssi, rent assistance, utility assistance, footstamps/ebt....

I like the idea of opening the borders with the provision that you get no govt assistance outside of school for kids.
11-11-2012 02:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dcCid Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,538
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 37
I Root For: ACC, Big East
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post: #19
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 02:23 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 01:36 PM)dcCid Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 12:24 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think people view the "melting pot" in a different way than I do. It's not that we have one stagnant culture that all immigrants just dissolve into. Every culture adds to the mixture and the mixture changes over time. We're still a melting pot, IMO.

Agree that we still are a melting pot. I am an american mutt.

I also have no problem with the government helping those who are not comfortable with English. Many public schools offer ESOL, but all subjects are still taught in English.

People come here for a better life as they always have, although more now for economic reasons rather than just persecution.

Why do some think this is no longer the case?

Nobody thinks the reason has change but the mechanics have changed.

A good number of Immigrants in the 1800s went home because they could not make it here. Today you don't have to "make it" you can collect welfare, ssi, rent assistance, utility assistance, footstamps/ebt....

I like the idea of opening the borders with the provision that you get no govt assistance outside of school for kids.

You have a point, but not sure I am ready to agree with it.

I assumed that most who came here in the 1800’s had nothing to go home to, nor the ability to get back. But I am now curios and will try to research that.

For food stamps, you have to legally be here for 5 years or more to qualify (with some exceptions). I assume it is the same for other government benefits. And for rental assistance the waiting list is in the years (at least around here). SSI you have to have paid into the system.

I do not know the eligibility criteria for the other programs.

So while there may be some truth to it, my gut reaction is that these programs are not what keeps them here, but is more of a political narrative for a wedge issue to find a scapegoat.
11-11-2012 02:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bull_In_Exile Offline
Eternal Pessimist
*

Posts: 21,809
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 461
I Root For: The Underdog
Location:
Post: #20
RE: Are we a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl"?
(11-11-2012 02:45 PM)dcCid Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 02:23 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 01:36 PM)dcCid Wrote:  
(11-11-2012 12:24 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I think people view the "melting pot" in a different way than I do. It's not that we have one stagnant culture that all immigrants just dissolve into. Every culture adds to the mixture and the mixture changes over time. We're still a melting pot, IMO.

Agree that we still are a melting pot. I am an american mutt.

I also have no problem with the government helping those who are not comfortable with English. Many public schools offer ESOL, but all subjects are still taught in English.

People come here for a better life as they always have, although more now for economic reasons rather than just persecution.

Why do some think this is no longer the case?

Nobody thinks the reason has change but the mechanics have changed.

A good number of Immigrants in the 1800s went home because they could not make it here. Today you don't have to "make it" you can collect welfare, ssi, rent assistance, utility assistance, footstamps/ebt....

I like the idea of opening the borders with the provision that you get no govt assistance outside of school for kids.

You have a point, but not sure I am ready to agree with it.

I assumed that most who came here in the 1800’s had nothing to go home to, nor the ability to get back. But I am now curios and will try to research that.

For food stamps, you have to legally be here for 5 years or more to qualify (with some exceptions). I assume it is the same for other government benefits. And for rental assistance the waiting list is in the years (at least around here). SSI you have to have paid into the system.

I do not know the eligibility criteria for the other programs.

So while there may be some truth to it, my gut reaction is that these programs are not what keeps them here, but is more of a political narrative for a wedge issue to find a scapegoat.

Oh no doubt some use it to scape goat, just like some use the 1% as scape goats. But youre wrong on the 5 years... That might be in some states but California, for example, has not such limitation, its just one year

In CA you qualify if:
Lawful permanent resident (you have a green card)
Refugee, or were granted asylum or withholding of deportation/removal, or were paroled into the
U.S. for at least one year
Cuban or Haitian entrant
Battered spouse (or child), whose spouse (or parent) has filed a visa petition for you, or you have filed a visa petition for yourself or an application for cancellation of removal under the Violence Against Women Act. There are special rules for domestic violence survivors.

But any requirement related to citizenship goes out the window when a child is born..

GAO noted that: in fiscal year (FY) 1995, about $1.1 billion in Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamp benefits were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his or her citizen child.

So you come across 8 or 9 months pregnant have the baby and there ya go. FWIW my sisted was a labor nurse near el centro, deliverd more illegal babies than babies of citizens.
11-11-2012 03:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.