Fo Shizzle
Pragmatic Classical Liberal
Posts: 42,023
Joined: Dec 2006
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I Root For: ECU PIRATES
Location: North Carolina
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RE: What is it in minority culture .....
(11-10-2012 03:28 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: (11-10-2012 03:14 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:43 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote: (11-10-2012 02:04 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote: (11-10-2012 01:47 PM)UCF08 Wrote: That was my point too, they pay innumerable other taxes, at the federal, state, and local level.
But what they don't grasp, and their rhetoric shows this, those hardworking members of the 47% hate welfare queens too. We hate those who game the system for their benefits, we truly do. The only difference is, we are more likely to have known someone who has used those social programs, or currently rely on such programs, and know that the boogeyman of those types of people are the extreme minority.
This explains the disconnect many elderly white voters have with SS and Medicare, and mentally separating those two programs from social programs, despite them being so. They know they rely on them, they know many of their friends and loved ones rely on them, so they know that these aren't really social programs like Welfare or food stamps, those people are just moochers and internally, they compartmentalize their feelings about social programs to only mean those social programs. The 47% is more likely to know people who have effectively used and benefited from the social programs, as intended, so the scare tactics of WELFARE QUEEN! and EBT FOR DRUGS! don't work as well.
And as for being tired of something, try working two jobs to support your family and being sh*t on by a guy like Romney for not earning enough to pay income taxes. Try riding a bus from one job to the next, wondering how you're going to pay rent and knowing you can't afford a mediocre christmas for your kids, and then hearing Romney campaign on the 'WAHHH OBAMA IS ATTACKING THE RICH! WAAHHHH' line. Knowing you can't afford to help your kids go to college and having Romney state 'WELL Y U NO BORROW MONEY FROM YOUR PARENTS?!'. That's what the Right doesn't understand, they claim to be the party of the worker, but from a workers point of view, that's an absurd construct.
Some valid points. But try to see it from the other side:
My father did everything right. He served his country (Korean War vet), went to college and got a degree, and then had a very successful business career with a top 5 corporation. But while we were kids, he was paying 50%+ of his income in taxes (local suburban taxes, NYC income taxes, NY state taxes, federal taxes). He would essentially work January to July for the government, then August to December for his family. That's just sick.
Let me start by saying an effective overall tax rate of 50% is pretty high, and I'm not necessarily advocating for that level of overall taxation, but did your father not get anything for that money? Did he not get a college education? Did he not get paid as a veteran (as he absolutely should have)? Was he not eligible for VA Benefits throughout his life? Was he not a consumer of mass transit in NYC? Did he ever fly out of a New York City airport?
Most of that money didn't go to welfare queens paying for crack with food stamps. Most of that money went to pay for things that make living in America, and particularly living in a large American city, a tolerable, functional experience. Airports and roads and police and subways and buses and fire trucks don't pay for themselves. This is the other half of the "government handout" argument that kind of pisses me off. Most government spending, especially at the state and local level, goes to pay for things that everyone uses, and life in this country would be significantly worse off if we didn't have them. Trust me, I live in Birmingham, Alabama which has no functional transit system, clogged interstates, and none of the cultural facilities that most modern American cities take for granted.
I have zero problem paying for things I use....period. I object strongly to paying for things I don't. I have zero problem helping support those that are not able bodied and can not support themselves and am happy to contribute to that cause. I strongly object to supporting able bodied people that simply are gaming the system....period.
The problem with the "paying for things I use...period" is that you get benefits from some things the government does that you don't use. The best example from where I live, is mass transit. We don't have a mass transit system and people don't want to pay for it. The thing is, though, that with something like that you have less traffic on the highway. Low income workers can make it to low income jobs so you can buy $1 hamburgers at McDonalds. Same thing with airports. Business in the area grows because of these infrastructures and the overall economy improves. Just because you don't personally use a given government-provided service doesn't mean that you don't benefit from it.
Nothing in my comment is contradictory with your response. I said I have no problem paying for things I use. Roads and transportation infrastructure are things I use. As for city Mass transit? Well...that is why they charge a fee for that...'when you use it"  Same for toll roads. I have no objection to either. In fact... I support fully fees for use of things.
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2012 10:17 PM by Fo Shizzle.)
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What is it in minority culture .....
