This is on the CUSA main board, not an ECU specific board.

(11-13-2012 02:01 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Pretty sure my charity was the one that got paid last year from our bet. I'm also pretty sure that Lebo overall has had one of the biggest turnarounds in the POSITIVE direction of anyone in that coaching caurosel class, while Major has had one of the biggest in the opposite direction.

Our program is the one in better shape today. You guys going to sign any recruits this year? Good news is you can't lose anymore to us since we finished months ago. We like Guilmette and Bowden. You could use them a lot starting 6-7 centers and with no shooters.

I'm glad you like your players, we like ours too. We blew up our program to rebuild, Major has recruited well. Now we have to see it on the court, no one is touting Major as being our answers.

Also, we haven't extended our coach. You guys have with Lebo, right? He isn't even .500 if you take out your non-D1 games.

(11-13-2012 12:04 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 11:43 AM)CharSFNiner Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 11:26 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  1. TaShawn Thomas 24.3
2. Keith Clanton 23.2 (All CUSA)
3. John Bohannon 22.6
4. Maurice Kemp 22.3
Dennis Tinnon 22.3 (All CUSA)
6. Tarick Black 22.2 (All CUSA)
7 Kendal Timmions 21.2
8. Ricky Tarrant 21.0 (All CUSA)
9. Miguel Paul 20.7 (All CUSA)
10. Johnathan Mills 20.5 *was 3rd team last year
11. Neil Watson 19.8 (All CUSA)
Isaih Sykes 19.8
13. Johnathan Simmions 19.5
14. Deandre Kane 19.3 (All CSUA)
15. Joe Jackson 18.5 (All CUSA)
16 Chris Crawford 17.8 (all CUSA)

That's the list of highest PER's returning this year and preseason selections. No coincidence it's a who's who of CUSA players or that the best players like Kasimi, Barton and Moore were tops last year, Braswell was your only player over 20.0, or that Michael Jordan is #1 all time in the NBA etc etc. The guy produces when he is on the court. With Straughn probably out for the year he will get a lot of minutes at SF and should be all conference. He was already among the league leaders in just about everything last year despite only playing 23 minutes a game.

Then why not play him more than 23 mins? All those other guys I'd expect played well over 30 mins, and it's not like Jordan came out often. So either Lebo is bad with his rotations in that regard, or he knows something some don't?

If you don't think he is one of most under rated players in C-USA, go watch the C-USA tourny game between ECU and USM. He was in full beast mode in that game and the opening round game as well. Well you see how good he is very soon.

Wasn't this guy a juco? Regardless, my point I was making is you're taking a guy playing roughly about half the game and trying to apply PER to him, versus guys who maintain that for 35+ mins of game. It's not the same. PER isn't to be used as a basis of discussion, it's merely one tool. If I step onto the court for 2 mins, record 2 steals, a block, and 5 points I'd rate as the greatest player ever according to PER. It's the Greg Stiesma argument all over again. It's tiring.

If PER had anything to do with success, why did Charlotte and ECU have similar seasons and Charlotte beat ECU head-to-head? As I've said time and again PER does not attribute for a defender's ability to causes misses and deny shots, which if anyone who actually played basketball would understand, is an important success strategy.

See: Butler 2010-2011 (they had no one over 20).

(11-13-2012 03:13 PM)casstommy Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 02:01 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  I'm also pretty sure that Lebo overall has had one of the biggest turnarounds in the POSITIVE direction of anyone in that coaching caurosel class, while Major has had one of the biggest in the opposite direction.

I still cant figure out how a coach who goes 15-16 one year and then follows that up with an 11-16 record the next constitutes "one of the biggest turnarounds in the positive direction of anyone blah blah blah blah"

Can someone explain that one to me?

Well first of all those weren't our records (even though yes I know you just tossed all the non-D1 games out). Considering we had never won more than 5 conference games in C-USA, had never won a C-USA tournament game, and hadn't played in a post season tournament of any kind since 1993 and in year 1 Lebo lead us to an 8-8 conference record, a birth in the semi's of the C-USA tournament, and a post season bid (even though it was one of those silly tournaments) I'd say it was a massive turnaround.

(11-13-2012 03:21 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Well first of all those weren't our records (even though yes I know you just tossed all the non-D1 games out). Considering we had never won more than 5 conference games in C-USA, had never won a C-USA tournament game, and hadn't played in a post season tournament of any kind since 1993 and in year 1 Lebo lead us to an 8-8 conference record, a birth in the semi's of the C-USA tournament, and a post season bid (even though it was one of those silly tournaments) I'd say it was a massive turnaround.

Yea, I didn't count the d2 & d3 games because, I mean, come on guys.

And I understand that compared to ECU's history, what you guys have had the past two years is like rainbows and kittens. But SJ compares Lebos record and "turnaround" to other coaches, not the programs own history of low standards. But Lebo actually had a worse record last year than the year prior right? Doesn't a turnout have to have an upward trend? Is there a point when under .500 records stop being a turnaround and just continue to be more of the same bad basketball?

Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Major took over a top 75 team from the year before, and has average finish of 195 RPI. Lebo took over a 230 ranked team the year before he got here and has an an average finish of 128. Both of our teams also improved and finished strong even won in the tourny where as yours faded both years, and no one is picking you higher this year.

Major also was still heavily relying on Lutz players even Braswell this year where as Lebo had basically all his important players his own by year two. Recruits know the program on the rise and the one sinking. That's why you still don't have a commit and we finished months ago.

You do realize it's not even national signing day yet, right?

And even when we had Lutz, we still were pulling in late signees. Nobody will panic here.

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)CharSFNiner Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Major took over a top 75 team from the year before, and has average finish of 195 RPI. Lebo took over a 230 ranked team the year before he got here and has an an average finish of 128. Both of our teams also improved and finished strong even won in the tourny where as yours faded both years, and no one is picking you higher this year.

Major also was still heavily relying on Lutz players even Braswell this year where as Lebo had basically all his important players his own by year two. Recruits know the program on the rise and the one sinking. That's why you still don't have a commit and we finished months ago.

You do realize it's not even national signing day yet, right?

And even when we had Lutz, we still were pulling in late signees. Nobody will panic here.

Signing guys earlier has clearly led to all of ECU's basketball success.

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Major took over a top 75 team from the year before, and has average finish of 195 RPI. Lebo took over a 230 ranked team the year before he got here and has an an average finish of 128. Both of our teams also improved and finished strong even won in the tourny where as yours faded both years, and no one is picking you higher this year.

Major also was still heavily relying on Lutz players even Braswell this year where as Lebo had basically all his important players his own by year two. Recruits know the program on the rise and the one sinking. That's why you still don't have a commit and we finished months ago.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that you have old players about to graduate after this season and 90% of our roster is freshmen and sophomores.

After this season, you are losing a starting forward, starting point guard, and possibly a starting SG (depending on whether Bowden or Richmond starts).

If you ask any national recruiting analyst, or collegiate coach, which program has been recruiting at a higher level the last two years, 100% will say Charlotte.

For the last two years we've been mentioned as having one of the top recruiting classes for programs not in the power conferences. No mention of ECU.

Keep grabbing transfers and JUCOs to make up the core of your team and we'll keep grabbing a top 150 player each year and three star guys sought after by higher profile programs. We already tried building a program on transfers and JUCOs, it doesn't work.

(11-13-2012 03:56 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Major took over a top 75 team from the year before, and has average finish of 195 RPI. Lebo took over a 230 ranked team the year before he got here and has an an average finish of 128. Both of our teams also improved and finished strong even won in the tourny where as yours faded both years, and no one is picking you higher this year.

Major also was still heavily relying on Lutz players even Braswell this year where as Lebo had basically all his important players his own by year two. Recruits know the program on the rise and the one sinking. That's why you still don't have a commit and we finished months ago.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that you have old players about to graduate after this season and 90% of our roster is freshmen and sophomores.

After this season, you are losing a starting forward, starting point guard, and possibly a starting SG (depending on whether Bowden or Richmond starts).

If you ask any national recruiting analyst, or collegiate coach, which program has been recruiting at a higher level the last two years, 100% will say Charlotte.

For the last two years we've been mentioned as having one of the top recruiting classes for programs not in the power conferences. No mention of ECU.

Keep grabbing transfers and JUCOs to make up the core of your team and we'll keep grabbing a top 150 player each year and three star guys sought after by higher profile programs. We already tried building a program on transfers and JUCOs, it doesn't work.

Nah, let them do it. Look at all of Lebo's previous NCAA success!!!

(11-13-2012 03:47 PM)casstommy Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:21 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Well first of all those weren't our records (even though yes I know you just tossed all the non-D1 games out). Considering we had never won more than 5 conference games in C-USA, had never won a C-USA tournament game, and hadn't played in a post season tournament of any kind since 1993 and in year 1 Lebo lead us to an 8-8 conference record, a birth in the semi's of the C-USA tournament, and a post season bid (even though it was one of those silly tournaments) I'd say it was a massive turnaround.

Yea, I didn't count the d2 & d3 games because, I mean, come on guys.

And I understand that compared to ECU's history, what you guys have had the past two years is like rainbows and kittens. But SJ compares Lebos record and "turnaround" to other coaches, not the programs own history of low standards. But Lebo actually had a worse record last year than the year prior right? Doesn't a turnout have to have an upward trend? Is there a point when under .500 records stop being a turnaround and just continue to be more of the same bad basketball?

Yes last year's record was worse than year 1, but we also had a decent amount of roster turnover and struggled early. We finished the conference season strong, won the opening game in the C-USA tournament and took #1 seed USM to overtime in the second round. What is very clear is that we are a well coached team, and it's easy to tell because each year we get better and better as the season goes along. This is the first year I believe we have the talent level to actually win a good number of games. Year 1 we had a really experienced team but really wasn't very talented and then last year we had several JUCO's and transfers that didn't really gel until the end of the season. Personally though I don't give a damn if you think we are playing the same bad basketball. I've seen our horrible basketball product for years now, and we don't even resemble those teams anymore. The record this year is going to reflect what all ECU fans know about our program, that it's been making massive strides in a very short period of time.

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

First time winning more than 5 games in CUSA
First time winning a game in the CUSA tournament
First time since the early 90s playing in a postseason game
Defeated Memphis
Reenergized fan base
FAR better recruiting
Getting players that had quit on the previous coach to actually buy into the team concept and his gameplan
Transformed Morrow into a top 10 CUSA player
Semi-controlled Brock Young

I could go on if you would like?

(11-13-2012 04:33 PM)PurpleReigns2012 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

First time winning more than 5 games in CUSA
First time winning a game in the CUSA tournament
First time since the early 90s playing in a postseason game
Defeated Memphis
Reenergized fan base
FAR better recruiting
Getting players that had quit on the previous coach to actually buy into the team concept and his gameplan
Transformed Morrow into a top 10 CUSA player
Semi-controlled Brock Young

I could go on if you would like?

I agree. Baby steps.

(11-13-2012 04:33 PM)PurpleReigns2012 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

First time winning more than 5 games in CUSA
First time winning a game in the CUSA tournament
First time since the early 90s playing in a postseason game
Defeated Memphis
Reenergized fan base
FAR better recruiting
Getting players that had quit on the previous coach to actually buy into the team concept and his gameplan
Transformed Morrow into a top 10 CUSA player
Semi-controlled Brock Young

I could go on if you would like?

Yeah he accomplished a bunch of things that ECU had never accomplished in it's entire history in C-USA in 1 season.

(11-13-2012 04:37 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:33 PM)PurpleReigns2012 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

First time winning more than 5 games in CUSA
First time winning a game in the CUSA tournament
First time since the early 90s playing in a postseason game
Defeated Memphis
Reenergized fan base
FAR better recruiting
Getting players that had quit on the previous coach to actually buy into the team concept and his gameplan
Transformed Morrow into a top 10 CUSA player
Semi-controlled Brock Young

I could go on if you would like?

Yeah he accomplished a bunch of things that ECU had never accomplished in it's entire history in C-USA in 1 season.

That's great for ECU, nice low bar there. Should have expressed myself more clearly, something relevant like an NCAA or an NIT berth.

The mere fact that you consider the CIT as an accomplishment is laughable.

(11-13-2012 04:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:37 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:33 PM)PurpleReigns2012 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:48 PM)moss2k Wrote:  Well, we all clearly know the earlier guys commit to a school, the better they will be as college players.

You fail to mention Spears was kicked off Major's team, Dewhurst and Sherrill were hurt throughout most of the Majors first year and players didn't fit his system. We pretty much played 6 or 7 guys all year.

Now Major has his players here, only Lutz holder if Braswell, it's time for us to see better overall play on the court.

Lebo hasn't accomplished ANYTHING at ECU. I hope he makes them better, since it will help CUSA.

First time winning more than 5 games in CUSA
First time winning a game in the CUSA tournament
First time since the early 90s playing in a postseason game
Defeated Memphis
Reenergized fan base
FAR better recruiting
Getting players that had quit on the previous coach to actually buy into the team concept and his gameplan
Transformed Morrow into a top 10 CUSA player
Semi-controlled Brock Young

I could go on if you would like?

Yeah he accomplished a bunch of things that ECU had never accomplished in it's entire history in C-USA in 1 season.

That's great for ECU, nice low bar there. Should have expressed myself more clearly, something relevant like an NCAA or an NIT berth.

The mere fact that you consider the CIT as an accomplishment is laughable.

So you are saying we should have expected him to turn a dumpster fire to an NIT/NCAA team in 1 season with the exact same players that were hot garbage the year before? What bar should we have set oh expert of the hardwood?

(11-13-2012 03:56 PM)Niner National Wrote:  After this season, you are losing a starting forward, starting point guard, and possibly a starting SG (depending on whether Bowden or Richmond starts).

Armstrong SR
Guilmette So
Sampson/Straughn Sr's
PRC Jr
Richmond SR

That's still a hell of a experienced core of talented players for next year and we will have tons of FR and Sophs behind them. Lebo's rebuild a competitive team and one that can be successful now without falling off the map. Good luck without Braswell. We got immediate help unlike you, while signing freshman behind them. We just ran off the crap at the end of our bench and improved our program. Major has yet to sign one player that has made a big impact like Paul.

Quote:If you ask any national recruiting analyst, or collegiate coach, which program has been recruiting at a higher level the last two years, 100% will say Charlotte.

You haven't signed talent like Richmond, Kemp, Sampson, or Paul. The top 150 players you signed were complete duds that were on their way dropping down the rankings by their SR year, didnt qualify, shot 30% or struggled in year one. We are getting easily as nice of freshman like Guilmette, Sampson and Stith, couple over you now that recruits have seen the directions of the programs. There is no way you have brought in more talent under Major or are in better shape now or the forseeable future.

(11-13-2012 05:24 PM)PurpleReigns2012 Wrote:  Let's be honest. We can't have ECU fans complaining about the addition of Charlotte anymore. When was the last time we had this sort of pre-game trash talk before a conference basketball game? And to think, we play them twice starting next year.

In basketball and all other sports they are a terrific addition, and honestly they shouldn't have been asked to leave in the first place. In football adding them is a disaster and an embarrassment. So it is what it is.